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All Forum Posts by: Spencer Sutton

Spencer Sutton has started 18 posts and replied 111 times.

Post: Investors, do these things before buying rentals in Birmingham

Spencer Sutton
Property Manager
Posted
  • Investor
  • Birmingham, AL
  • Posts 117
  • Votes 147

Recently we had two investors from the west coast come to town. This post is what we can all learn from their visit...maybe a couple of take aways.

They’ve bought 12 houses here in town and while it’s been a great long-distance relationship, we always enjoy meeting people face to face, shaking hands, and visiting rental houses together. You can get a much better understanding of mindset and goals when you drive from house to house and have time to talk.

To see areas in Birmingham where they bought their rental houses, take a look at the map below:

That day we visited all of their houses. There were two rented and the rest in some state of turn (getting ready to rent). There wasn’t anything particularly bad about the houses or area but they were in parts of the city that are known for a few things:

  • Older homes - A lot of the homes they bought were built in what we call ‘West End’. A lot of West End homes were built between 1900 and 1940.
  • High Police presence - The Police in these areas are not sitting around at the coffee shop...they’re BUSY.
  • Low to moderate rents - In these areas it’s tough to get over $700 per month. Most of the houses are between $500 - $650 for a 3/1….private pay or Section 8.

These investors are good guys and they’re smart. They own rental property on the west coast and one of them has been in the business for over 20 years...so they know their stuff.

However, Birmingham rental property is different. I believe there were a couple of steps they could have taken that would have drastically improved their experience.

1. Come to Birmingham for a week and drive the streets - This can’t be overstated. If you’re considering buying houses in Birmingham, it’s imperative. 

To give our client’s credit, they did this...they spent some solid time here in Birmingham. But if you think you can shortchange this step, you’re wrong.

When I drive through a particular area of Birmingham, I’m going to be looking for a few things:

  • Abandoned and vandalized houses - You can see a picture of a house someone sends you and it looks great...but how do you know it doesn’t have a burn-out next to it? How do you know it’s not sandwiched between two apartment buildings? These things will impact your ability to rent that house to a solid tenant. Most good tenants don’t want to live on a street with a bunch of vacant houses...they won’t feel safe because there will be things going on in those houses that aren’t ‘safe’.
  • Pride of ownership - Here I’m simply looking for several houses that people are taking care of in the most basic ways. I like to see cut grass during the summer, raked leaves during the winter, and I especially like if they have taken the time and effort to plant shrubs, plants and flowers. You know the houses that people care about and if you’re driving a street and see 75% of the houses with strong pride of ownership - that’s likely going to be good area to own a rental.
  • Loitering - How many people can you find walking on the sidewalks or sitting on their porch. The more people I count, the less likely I am to buy in that area. I prefer neighborhoods where people are at work or busy with their lives...not sitting on the porch...all. day. long. Seeing retirees in these areas are great...but not working age groups of people. I once owned an apartment complex where the tenants drank beer and played cards all day. Not the best complex in the world.

2. Visit several property managers in the area and ask a lot of questions - Our friends who visited with us that day had been to Birmingham and driven the streets. But what they failed to do is to visit with several different property managers during their time here.

There are enough honest managers in this city that would have warned them about who they were dealing with and given solid advice about where they were buying. Again, there’s nothing wrong with where they bought as long as they have realistic expectations.

If they had visited with several reputable property managers in Birmingham they would have learned important information about who they were about to buy houses from. This company has operated under several different entity names over the past 10 years. The reason they do this is because they’ve lied so much that they need to change their identity and story every three years so that out of state people can’t look too much into their past deals.

Once they’ve sold enough houses, made enough money, and ripped enough people off they shut it down and start all over again.

How they get away with it year after year is beyond me. We only know this because we’ve taken over about 50 houses from previous clients of theirs over the past six months.

The solution to this problem is simple. Visit different property managers in the area and ask questions like:

  • Have you ever heard of XYZ Company?
  • What has been your experience with XYZ?
  • How long have they been in town?
  • Would you recommend buying these houses they’re selling?
  • What’s the real story on this rental area?
  • They told me the house can rent for $XXX per month...what’s your experience with similar houses in that area?
  • What are some common issues with these types of houses?

Ask these questions to enough property managers and you’ll see some consistency in the answers. And as a result you’ll probably end up doing one of a few things - buying the house(s), asking more questions from the seller, or running the other way.

Do your homework. Don’t be lazy. Know who you’re buying houses from and believe in their credentials and history.

If you do these two things before you buy in a strange market, you’ll have more success than your counterparts who are buying houses sight unseen.

Hope that helps!

spencer

Post: Arbor Trace Property Management

Spencer Sutton
Property Manager
Posted
  • Investor
  • Birmingham, AL
  • Posts 117
  • Votes 147

We ended up taking over management of around 50 houses in the past few months as a result of what's going on with Arbor Trace and BIP.  

I don't think that it's really a conflict between partners.  There's something else going on with this group.... 

We just took over for some owners who had been with them and what we're unraveling is a mess.

Post: Don't make these 5 mistakes buying your rentals....

Spencer Sutton
Property Manager
Posted
  • Investor
  • Birmingham, AL
  • Posts 117
  • Votes 147

Hey @Mike H.

You're right...doesn't seem to make too much sense!  The houses that we're talking about that most investors buy down here in Birmingham are low to moderate income properties. These properties will most likely never appreciate with the rest of the market.

The lot is seen as more of a hassle for tenants and if there is any added value to a large lot, it's only seen in the tax appraised value which is just a cost to the owner...not realized gain.

Post: Seeking Birmingham, Alabama Turnkey Advice. (Investors Only)

Spencer Sutton
Property Manager
Posted
  • Investor
  • Birmingham, AL
  • Posts 117
  • Votes 147

Hey @James Irwin I totally missed that message from Wayne...my bad!  I will call you today.

Post: Seeking Birmingham, Alabama Turnkey Advice. (Investors Only)

Spencer Sutton
Property Manager
Posted
  • Investor
  • Birmingham, AL
  • Posts 117
  • Votes 147

Hey @Sara Hodge - I work with Birmingham's largest property manager (1,100 houses in the city) so I could give you some decent feedback (we don't sell turnkey). 

There are definitely different types of B/C areas.  And some groups will try to sell you a D/F property as a B/C...so be careful there.  

And things can vary on any given street. You don't want to buy a great looking house on a street with two abandoned properties and one burnout. Unfortunately, it happens b/c people can buy that house for 5k, put 15k in it along with a tenant that's overpaying and won't stay in the house for more than 12 months....and sell it for 65k.

I have some investors we manage properties for who have used BIP for their turnkey and I believe they would be open to sharing their experience if you want. You can message me if you're interested and I'll reach out to them to see if they wouldn't mind.

Also, you can grab a free ebook on our site that goes into details about Five Turnkey Manipulations you should be aware of that we see in Birmingham a lot.  

There is a lot of great opportunity in Birmingham for investors who do their homework and do it right.

Hope that helps!!

Spencer

Post: 5 turnkey manipulations that will end up costing you thousands

Spencer Sutton
Property Manager
Posted
  • Investor
  • Birmingham, AL
  • Posts 117
  • Votes 147

@Ndy Onyido Yeah, it's not a fun lesson to learn. A lot of things look good on paper but most of the performas I see are pretty worthless. 

Someone should create a video series teaching out of state investors how to evaluate and buy turnkey properties.

Post: Does Anyone Own ALL turnkey??

Spencer Sutton
Property Manager
Posted
  • Investor
  • Birmingham, AL
  • Posts 117
  • Votes 147

I believe @Harry Zhou that when you mention that you can't find Memphis Invest 1-2% rule it might be that they're being transparent about what investors can expect. They're setting reasonable expectations. 

Any turnkey company can manipulate numbers. Here's an example pulled from our market:

Looks amazing...but that 13.03% cash on cash return number is worthless.  Why? Where's the maintenance number? Even if this company is guaranteeing no maintenance for a year, don't people plan on holding rentals longer than that? 

Taxes are not correct and there's not a dime allocated to vacancy.

So imagine if you bought this house, gave it to a local PM and within months realized your expenses were much more than this? You probably wouldn't be happy.

We see this ALL THE TIME.

This example doesn't seem like "ABUSE" by a PM company as @Jay Hinrichs mentioned. But it does seem like turnkey 'abuse' and also by anyone involved in this kind of deal to an out of state investor.

@kyle 

@Kyle Scholnick

Post: 5 turnkey manipulations that will end up costing you thousands

Spencer Sutton
Property Manager
Posted
  • Investor
  • Birmingham, AL
  • Posts 117
  • Votes 147

Yes @Jay Hinrichs is right about the non homestead taxes.

However, he's incorrect on the success/failure lies in the PM companies hands. It's not an either/or deal...it's a both/and deal. 

Buy your turnkey from a reputable company after doing all of your homework and place it with a PM company you trust and have done homework on. And then realize that it's an investment and there are certain risks involved.

The issues this post brings up are the common manipulations we see (and have documented) turnkey companies promoting during the marketing of their products. Any local investor in our market can look at these so called 'deals' and let you know if they're realistic or not.

If they bought them and there was PERFECT management by the perfect PM (there is no perfect PM), there would still be massive issues and the buyer would still have been mislead.

Post: 5 turnkey manipulations that will end up costing you thousands

Spencer Sutton
Property Manager
Posted
  • Investor
  • Birmingham, AL
  • Posts 117
  • Votes 147

OK, thanks for that @Joel Owens

Post: Does Anyone Own ALL turnkey??

Spencer Sutton
Property Manager
Posted
  • Investor
  • Birmingham, AL
  • Posts 117
  • Votes 147

@Kyle Scholnick

As much as turnkey providers want you to think it's a simple game, it's not. The management of your turnkey is incredibly important and it's not a science, it's an art. That's why the big commercial guys never get into residential.

We believe that one of the biggest assets an investor has is not necessarily the property but the tenant. And there are several factors that go into finding that great tenant. It starts with buying the right house and ends with tenant appreciation.

Where do most investors lose out? On the turn...especially if the turnkey company placed a trouble tenant in the house before they sold it. Seen it a million times and it never ends up profitable for the owner.