Skip to content
×
Pro Members Get
Full Access!
Get off the sidelines and take action in real estate investing with BiggerPockets Pro. Our comprehensive suite of tools and resources minimize mistakes, support informed decisions, and propel you to success.
Advanced networking features
Market and Deal Finder tools
Property analysis calculators
Landlord Command Center
ANNUAL Save 16%
$32.50 /mo
$390 billed annualy
MONTHLY
$39 /mo
billed monthly
7 day free trial. Cancel anytime

Let's keep in touch

Subscribe to our newsletter for timely insights and actionable tips on your real estate journey.

By signing up, you indicate that you agree to the BiggerPockets Terms & Conditions
×
Try Pro Features for Free
Start your 7 day free trial. Pick markets, find deals, analyze and manage properties.
Followed Discussions Followed Categories Followed People Followed Locations
All Forum Categories
All Forum Categories
Followed Discussions
Followed Categories
Followed People
Followed Locations
Market News & Data
General Info
Real Estate Strategies
Landlording & Rental Properties
Real Estate Professionals
Financial, Tax, & Legal
Real Estate Classifieds
Reviews & Feedback

All Forum Posts by: Scott Scoville

Scott Scoville has started 31 posts and replied 439 times.

Post: Is trying to BRRRR in So Cal where I live possible than doing out-of-state investing?

Scott Scoville
Posted
  • Real Estate Agent
  • Sacramento, CA
  • Posts 466
  • Votes 267

I'm still BRRR'ing in Sacramento. Look location and heavy value add, and it's totally doable. Be patient, find the right property, rinse and repeat.

Post: North highlands area a good investment?

Scott Scoville
Posted
  • Real Estate Agent
  • Sacramento, CA
  • Posts 466
  • Votes 267
Quote from @Keith Mintz:

Hey Community, I’m curious what do other investors in Sacramento think of north highlands area? Is north highlands up and coming at all? As an investment.

Hey Keith, long time no talk:-) Lot's of good off market opportunities. Highest number of flips in Sacramento are happening in the North Highlands or Del Paso Heights areas. Price points are low, rehabs quick, dispoing properties relatively easy. Lot's of first time homebuyers. We've had a number of wholesale deals in those areas.

Post: Garage to ADU conversion?

Scott Scoville
Posted
  • Real Estate Agent
  • Sacramento, CA
  • Posts 466
  • Votes 267
Quote from @Dan H.:
Quote from @Adam Watanabe:
Quote from @Dan H.:
Quote from @Adam Watanabe:
Quote from @Dan H.:
Quote from @Bradley Buxton:

@Adam Watanabe

Converting a garage is not the best idea for the exit of a property. Many people still want garages for primary residences. By having a garage converted, you limit the value of the home and the buyer pool to investors. At 120k/2k that is 60 months or 5 years on the return. @Dan H. has some good insights on ADU conversions.
Generally, it would be better to put the $120k towards the down payment of another property so you can gain the equity even if the cashflow is breakeven. 


thanks for the tag.   To the OP, I regularly check ADU addition underwriting.  I encourage accurate and conservative underwriting.  On an ADU addition, the most important aspect of the underwriting is to KNOW the value that will be added by the ADU.  In the absence of sufficiently comps, expect a very poor valuation.  

I suspect the cost to convert an 450' garage to an ADU will approach $150k. The issue is it will likely add ~$75k of value resulting in an initial negative $75k (a value subtract). This initial negative position needs to be recovered before any cash flow is obtained.

I am also a bit skeptical that a 450’ unit can achieve $2k rent in Sacramento.

Using 50% rule (expenses other than mortgage is 50%) on a financed ADU, 8% 30 your loan at 80% LTV.

$2000 - $1000 (50% rule) - $881 (P&i) = $119/month
$75k/$119 = 630 months to recover the initial negative equity. This is 52.5 years.

Let’s use OP’s $120k with $45k initial negative position.
$2000 - $1000 - $704 (P&i) = $296/ month
$45k/$296 = 152 months or 12,7 years to recover the initial equity.

Building a single smal, unit is very expensive development.

Here is a list of why adding a single ADU in single family zoned areas in my CA market is typically a poor RE investment:
1) The value added by the ADU addition is often significantly less than the cost of adding the ADU. Search the BP for ADU appraisals to encounter numerous examples. This creates a negative initial position. This negative position can consume years of cash flow to recover. Make sure you know the value the ADU will add to the property before building the ADU.
2) the financing on an ADU is typically far worse than for initial investment property acquisition or is often not leveraged by the ADU (HELOC, cash out refi, etc). Leverage magnifies return.
3) The effort involved in adding an ADU is comparable or larger than a rehab associated with a BRRRR. However if I do a BRRRR I can achieve infinite return by extracting all of my investment. Due to item 1, adding an ADU can require years to start achieving any return (once the accumulated cash flow recovers the initial negative position).
4) Adding an ADU is a slow process. It can take a year or more to complete an ADU. During this time you are not generating any return from the money invested in the ADU. This amounts to lost opportunity because if you had purchased RE, at the closing it can start producing return.
5) ADUs detract from the existing structure whether this is privacy, a garage, or just yard space.
6) this is related to number 1, but there are many more buyers looking to purchase homes for their family than there are RE investors looking to purchase small unit count properties. This may affect value or time required to sell.
7) Adding an ADU does not make the property a duplex. For example in many jurisdictions I can STR units in a duplex but cannot STR an ADU (some jurisdictions will let you STR if you owner occupy). Duplex have different zoning that may permit additional units. Duplex can always add additional units via the ADU laws.
8) Related to number 1, purchasing a property with an existing ADU is cheaper than buying a property and adding an ADU. Why add an ADU if it can be purchased cheaper?
9) adding multiple ADUs or adding an ADU to a quad looses F/F conventional financing. This reduces exit options and affects the value.
10) Small number of small units is the most expensive residential development there is. This implies residential units can be built at lower costs and provide better return than building a single ADU.
11) adding an ADU to SFH can make the SFH fall under rent control. In CA currently only MF properties are rent controlled. If the house is older than 15 years old and an ADU is added, it can become rent controlled. Rent control laws are market specific. Make sure you know the impact that adding an ADU will have on any rent control.
12) investors seldom include the land value in the overall ADU costs. The reality is the land has value.

Good luck

 @Dan H.

Thanks for the thoughtful break-down, Dan! It's really helpful seeing all the numbers and you also raised some really good points that I'll need to further investigate. We're closer to Davis, CA and we have various acquaintances who are renting their attached ADUs for at least $2K a month. One of our friends is even getting close to $2,250 (Airbnb fees deducted) for his 350ft attached ADU (which doesn't even have a stove!).

Other than purchasing a property with an ADU, it seems like an attached garage conversion is one of the more cost-friendly ways to go. Are there ever situations when you would support building an ADU for rental income? If so, what would that look like? We'll most likely stay in the home anywhere from 7-10 years. If we converted the garage to an ADU, that would allow for eventually 3 rentals on the property (Main house, 1 detached ADU, 1 attached ADU) which would incentivize holding onto the property even if we move out. I've already looked at the local codes and we don't need to live in one of the units to rent medium/long term.

Curious to know what your thoughts are and if you would ever encourage ADU development for rental income. It gets harder and harder to find good deals out there which is why I've been lately hearing more about ADUs and the need to "build a good deal."

Thanks in advance!


Is the $2k/month as an STR or LTR? STRs and MTRs are more work and have more expenses.

if you are planning on adding a second ADU, is one a JADU? JADU in general lower the value of the property and require owner occupancy. If i is not a JADU, are you relying on a local ADU law?

my wife has an acquaintance that adds ADUs in some of her OC coastal flips.  She only does this if she can find comps that show a valuation noticeably above her development cost (her ADU development costs are significantly lower than a non developer hands off ADU).  Note because she has her own development team, this is not a hands off ADU addition. Even with having her own development team, having the ADU add more than the cost of the addition  is an exception and not the normal.  Most flippers are not adding ADUs because even acting as GC the value added is typically less than the cost of the addition.

In addition, if there are local laws that permit the addition of multiple ADUs, then it could be worth adding. The link i provided had the land provided by one of my protégés.  I suspect everyone will make money on that development but for sure my protege did well and has already exited (so even if it goes south, he has made his money). I am a partner on an effort that leverages San Diego rule that allows as many ADUs as desired to be converted from permitted space   The plan is to add 8 studio ADUs out of garage.  It seems like a good investment, but I fear I will lose money on this effort due to the hit in valuation of commercial MF.  Hopefully I am mistaken and I can get some profit.

I agree RE investing is challenging at this time. However the large initial negative position and the other items I listed make adding an ADU typically a particularly poor investment. The ADU addition making the primary rent controlled (assuming more than 15 years old) can make LL more challenging (currently SFH are exempt from rent controlled state wide - Costa Hawkins).

Make sure you know the value the ADU addition will add. Make sure you know the ramifications of adding an ADU. Make sure you understand the work involved and how the ADU addition will be financed.

Good luck


The $2k/month is for MTR usually targeted towards traveling medical professionals on contract for a few months. With enough foresight and planning, there isn't usually large gaps of vacancy. 

We already have a 600ft DADU in our backyard, and the conversion would be an attached 450ft ADU (sharing kitchen wall to main unit) with a separate entrance and furnished with full kitchen, bathroom, living space, etc. As you foreshadowed, I would be acting as the general contractor to manage the project and even taking on some of the work myself. I already checked with the city and we would be approved to add the second ADU since it would be attached. CA is on the forefront of ADUs and appraising them seems to provide at least 70-80% of the original investment. Hoping more down the line as popularity grows. I don't think there would be any issues selling the home in the future. MF is hot and properties in our area aren't on the MLS for long!

As far as funding goes, I could pay for probably half with cash then would either need to get a loan or potentially borrow from 401K.

Really appreciate your perspective and providing more considerations! Will continue to research and look into options.

Adam


 >CA is on the forefront of ADUs and appraising them seems to provide at least 70-80% of the original investment.

I do not know the source of your number but suspect it came from an ADU vendor. ADUs in southern Ca rarely get an appraised value as high as 70% of the hands off costs of a single ADU addition. I look at Southern CA ADU underwriting fairly regularly. I also go to RE meet ups where ADU appraisals are discussed. Do you have a mortgage broker? Ask where they are seeing appraisals of ADU valuations. Yours not being hands off will have a lower addition cost depending on how much work you do and how good you are at managing the effort. This makes it difficult to have an expectation on valuation to addition costs.

>Hoping more down the line as popularity grows. 

I have been hearing this from ADU vendors since they became legal statewide. here is things to consider 1) it has been 10 years since ADUs were allowed statewide (SB1069) and longer in many jurisdictions 2) building a single, small unit is the most expensive residential development and even more so when built by the consumer. There is no reason, despite what ADU vendors might say, to believe the ADU valuations will change significantly with more time. I do not know how long ADU vendors expect it to take but apparently more than 10 years.

in addition, are you sure the ADU being added is not classified as a JADU? Statewide a lot can have one ADU and one JADU but jurisdictions can allow more (they cannot allow less). JADU are virtually worthless at appraisal due to OO requirement. make sure it is not a JADU being added.

Good luck

@Dan H. yeah, agree. Even with the increase in ADU's, theirs a lack of comparables in most areas and the appraisals are coming in lower than what most homeowners are expecting. If you're looking for forced appreciation, I don't think an ADU is the best dollar for dollar approach. I have multiple ADU's and they are strictly cash flow plays.

Post: Garage to ADU conversion?

Scott Scoville
Posted
  • Real Estate Agent
  • Sacramento, CA
  • Posts 466
  • Votes 267

Hey Adam, looks like you have some great options. It really depends on your goals. ADU builds are great, but you may not get the dollar for dollar value on an ADU conversion. But if it's cash flow you're looking for, it's a good option. If you're looking for appreciation and some cash flow, look small multi family or spread out your cash and buy a few value add SFH's. I'm an investor and agent in Sacramento. Be happy to chat about this anytime.

Post: Renting out current home and building a small Short term rental to move into!

Scott Scoville
Posted
  • Real Estate Agent
  • Sacramento, CA
  • Posts 466
  • Votes 267

Hey IIya, welcome to BP. There are so many different strategies to choose from. I'm an investor and agent in Sacramento. With $50k-$60k, you could do a live in flip, or even purchase a duplex where you live in one side and rent out the other. Another option would be to purchase a seller finance property. Typically our seller finance properties require low down payments. Be happy to chat about different options if you are interested.

Post: Need you opinion on going from long term rental to short term

Scott Scoville
Posted
  • Real Estate Agent
  • Sacramento, CA
  • Posts 466
  • Votes 267
Quote from @Suhaib Rehman:

Hi everyone
I own a single-family home in Folsom CA. It is a 4 bed 2 bath house built in 1990. It has been rented out as a complete unit for 3 years now. 
My problem is that this house has a negative cash flow.  Mortgage is 3400 while rent is 3200. This excludes 800 a month in property tax. I have not included the insurance which is about 1500 a year.  As you can see, I lose an average of 1100 a month over this house.

I am wondering if a short-term rental could be a better choice for me.  The house is in a great school district. It is for this reason I bought the house but my family does not want to move there.  

How can I reliably calculate the potential income from the house if I switch to short-term rental?  

Thanks




Hey Suhaib, that's a great market, but difficult to cash flow or even break even. I typically buy in those Class A areas like Folsom, renovate and create value add to force appreciate the property, hold for a few years and take advantage of tax benefits, and then sell (1031) into small multifamily that will have better cashflow. Be happy to chat about what's worked for. me if you'd ever like to jump on a call.

Post: Insurance rate more than double from last year

Scott Scoville
Posted
  • Real Estate Agent
  • Sacramento, CA
  • Posts 466
  • Votes 267
Quote from @Suhaib Rehman:

Good day everyone,
I have a rental SFH in the Sacramento, CA area. I got a renewal bill for insurance and it is a little over double the amount i paid last year. There was a jump even last year, but I decided to stay with that insurance provider.
Can you suggest a few good insurance providers that operate in that market?
How effective is it to negotiate the insurance amount with the existing insurance provider?

Thanks

Suhaib


Hey Suhaib, I use a broker. I have high deductibles, and just insure for liability and total loss. It's not even worth filing claims for small repairs anymore. I'm an investor and agent in Sacramento. Best of luck and don't hesitate to reach out.

Post: San Francisco & Sacramento MTR

Scott Scoville
Posted
  • Real Estate Agent
  • Sacramento, CA
  • Posts 466
  • Votes 267
Quote from @Kwanza P.:

Hello, anyone doing MYR in San Francisco or Sacramento who is willing to share their experiences ? How’s it going ? What are regulations like ? Who are your typical clients and how do they find you?


Hey Kwanza, yes, I'm doing MTR's and so are my clients. There are a lot of hospitals in Sacramento, so we're focused on those locations, tenant base are traveling nurses, x-ray techs, etc. Rents are decent, and vacancies are low. But location is everything. Be happy to chat about this anytime. 

Post: Rookie in Sacramento, CA looking to get started in 2025

Scott Scoville
Posted
  • Real Estate Agent
  • Sacramento, CA
  • Posts 466
  • Votes 267

House hacking is a great way to get started. I just helped a client buy a duplex in Sacramento. Within 2 days of closing, he already has a signed lease with a new tenant. The lending on owner occupant small multi family has gotten a lot better and allowed house hackers to enter the market. Have you locked up a property yet?

Post: West Sacramento AirBNB & Short Term Rental

Scott Scoville
Posted
  • Real Estate Agent
  • Sacramento, CA
  • Posts 466
  • Votes 267
Quote from @Andrew Truman Kim:
Quote from @Scott Scoville:

Any numbers on projected STR revenue? Curious how this works out for you:-)

Thank you Scott for reaching out! My apologies for not responding to you sooner. Looking forward to connecting. STR rental was $3,500 to $6,000 per month, depending on season. However, very glad that we pivoted to mid-term rental approach around $4,500 to $5,000 that has helped address vacancy. Generally speaking, I would not recommend STR in West Sacramento, however, we'll see if that changes with the A's coming to town :)

Hey Andrew, yeah, with the A's in town, it will be interesting to see if there's an increase in bookings. I just had an investor client buy and renovate in West Sac. They've turned it into an LTR and getting great rent. Do you have other STR's in the area?