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All Forum Posts by: Robin Simon

Robin Simon has started 633 posts and replied 3746 times.

Post: Conventional verses Commercial Loan

Robin Simon
Pro Member
#2 Real Estate Deal Analysis & Advice Contributor
Posted
  • Lender
  • Austin, TX
  • Posts 4,442
  • Votes 4,315
Quote from @Lorraine Martin:

Hi Yall, my husband and I are wanting to build our investment portfolio. Which is the better route to take? Conventional or Commercial? We have cash to put down for both. We were told commercial loans reduce the liability for you? You can put in LLC ? Is this true?

We want to get probably 8-10 more properties total. 


If you can qualify for the conventional and don't mind the paperwork, then you'll likely get better rate and less fees. Benefits for the commercial (DSCR) loan will be easier qualification, less documentation and headaches and ability to put in the LLC (although you will have to still sign a recourse guaranty). You will also get capped out after 7 investment properties with conventional financing, a lot of people switch over after reaching that max.

Post: Are DSCR Loans Still "Worth It" with Spiking Rates?

Robin Simon
Pro Member
#2 Real Estate Deal Analysis & Advice Contributor
Posted
  • Lender
  • Austin, TX
  • Posts 4,442
  • Votes 4,315

Hi all - figured I'd share a thread recently posted on twitter running some numbers on whether DSCR loans still make financial sense in the current climate of spiking rates. Would love any feedback or thoughts, particularly from active investors, on whether our examples are lining up with your current experience and market

If you are a residential real estate investor, you are probably aware by now of the unprecedented recent rapid rise in rates https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MORTGAGE30US#0

What are DSCR loans? These are private-lender loans (not subsidized by quasi-gov agencies) on investment properties. Typically about 50-75 bps higher in rate BUT offer a lot of great features that make it worth it for a lot of investors:

1) No Income Verification - you qualify based on the cash flow of the property and personal credit, DTI is NOT utilized and your personal income is neither collected or scrutinized. No W-2? No Problem

2) No Tax Returns - Tax Returns are not collected either, so for whatever reason (privacy, "flags" that other lending programs will mark, etc) that you might not want to provide, not a problem

3) No Cap - A lot of investors will qualify and take advantage of low-rate conventional or bank financing and get their start with those loans? The problem, Fannie/Freddie will max you out at 7 investment properties and have other quotas. Once maxed, you can switch to DSCR

4) Flexible Underwriting - private DSCR lenders like @easystreetcap aren't beholden to gov edicts or bank regs. We can underwrite what makes sense and qual cash flows creatively and be ahead of the curve in innovation. Short Term Rentals, Crypto Reserves, Delayed Financing & more

OK sounds great - but rates were around 4.50% for this product three months ago - now its 6.50% or more (!) Does it make sense anymore to finance an investment property with a DSCR loan in this current environment?

The answer may surprise you, but in many cases it is not only a "Yes" - but the deal will make MORE SENSE and cash flow MORE in 2022 EVEN WITH drastically higher rates? How? Let's break down the numbers

Here's a representative sample deal we may have seen in late '21 - a fully-rented Duplex in a hot market (Nashville), worth $500k and renting for a total of $2,850 per mo. ($1,425 per unit). At 75% LTV and 4.5% Rate on a 30-year fixed, investors nets $716 a month w/ a 1.20x DSCR

Solid Deal and one that most investors would love to have. Fast-forward six months and how does this deal likely look?

A few assumptions: Let's say property has appreciated to $550k as prices still work higher in top mkts. Let's increase Tax/Ins 10% in line with inflation. Rent has skyrocketed too, esp. in top sunbelt markets, 30% is reasonable and somehow conservative. https://www.redfin.com/news/redfin-rental-report-february-2022/

And now the big one. Instead of 4.500% rate, a deal like this today would probably price out at 6.250%, a MASSIVE increase of 175 bps, or almost 40%. Does this kill the deal, or at the very least massively dent the cash flows and coverage earned by the Investor?

Here are the numbers:

Not only does the massive rise in rate not reduce, monthly cash flow, it INCREASES it almost $200 a month. And coverage improves? Counter-intuitive, but True.

Bonus: Our DSCR loans also have an IO option, where interest-only payments are required for the first ten years of the 30-year term, with the rate still fully fixed. Another counter-intuitive feature: even requiring higher rate for IO, the monthly payment is SMALLER

Heres the same deal example, tweaked (rate increases from 6.25% to 6.75%, but its an IO loan):

What happened? Even with the higher rate, the monthly cash flow INCREASES again more than $200, and the DSCR looks even better (little known fact: DSCR is calculated on the IO payment for these loans)

Summary (TLDR): Counter-intuitively, a lot of investment properties are actually cash flowing BETTER even when financing with much higher-rate loans (4.5% ->6.5%+). This is due to rent inflation outpacing even big rate spikes.

Remember as well, rents lag rates because most resi leases are 12-months and need time to roll and be replaced at market, so the cash flow picture is likely to improve. 

Agree, disagree, thoughts?  Are there markets where above is accurate or not accurate?

Post: BRRRR ARV for House Hack too high for DTI Ratio

Robin Simon
Pro Member
#2 Real Estate Deal Analysis & Advice Contributor
Posted
  • Lender
  • Austin, TX
  • Posts 4,442
  • Votes 4,315

Yes - DSCR strictly for investment properties. I guess it depends on what your medium-term goals are, is it to keep purchasing properties through househacking, leaving the prior ones under your ownership as you grow portfolio or do you want to keep upgrading into higher value properties?

Post: BRRRR ARV for House Hack too high for DTI Ratio

Robin Simon
Pro Member
#2 Real Estate Deal Analysis & Advice Contributor
Posted
  • Lender
  • Austin, TX
  • Posts 4,442
  • Votes 4,315

Spitballing but it seems like this sounds like a situation where you should jumpstart your next deal by doing your cash-out refinance mortgage through a DSCR loan (don't have to worry about DTI) and make it a full-on investment property, while moving into your next househack

Post: Chasing a higher DSCR

Robin Simon
Pro Member
#2 Real Estate Deal Analysis & Advice Contributor
Posted
  • Lender
  • Austin, TX
  • Posts 4,442
  • Votes 4,315

Right now, there isn't really a bonus after a 1.25x DSCR (i.e. a loan with a 1.25x DSCR will be priced the same as 1.35x, 1.50x, 1.75x etc.). Generally the pricing differences are in buckets (sub-1, 1-1.10x, 1.11x-1.24x and 1.25x). I believe this is generally pretty universal, but likely some differences among lenders and always subject to change with the market

Post: Out of state investor friendly lenders recommendations

Robin Simon
Pro Member
#2 Real Estate Deal Analysis & Advice Contributor
Posted
  • Lender
  • Austin, TX
  • Posts 4,442
  • Votes 4,315
Quote from @Cheza M.:

Hello all,

I’m trying to find a better mortgage lender for my second out-of-state turnkey rental property in Cleveland, OH. Does anyone know any great lenders out there who works with out of state investors and might have better fixed rates?


 Would love to help - we are not local to Ohio but we definitely do business there and are A-OK with out of state investors (no issue at all).  Fixed-Rate 30-year options, both fully am and IO options