Skip to content
×
Pro Members Get
Full Access!
Get off the sidelines and take action in real estate investing with BiggerPockets Pro. Our comprehensive suite of tools and resources minimize mistakes, support informed decisions, and propel you to success.
Advanced networking features
Market and Deal Finder tools
Property analysis calculators
Landlord Command Center
ANNUAL Save 54%
$32.50 /mo
$390 billed annualy
MONTHLY
$69 /mo
billed monthly
7 day free trial. Cancel anytime
Pick markets, find deals, analyze and manage properties. Try BiggerPockets PRO.
x
All Forum Categories
All Forum Categories
Followed Discussions
Followed Categories
Followed People
Followed Locations
Market News & Data
General Info
Real Estate Strategies
Landlording & Rental Properties
Real Estate Professionals
Financial, Tax, & Legal
Real Estate Classifieds
Reviews & Feedback

All Forum Posts by: Ray Hurteau

Ray Hurteau has started 5 posts and replied 123 times.

Post: Rookie from Boston, MA with interest in Multi units

Ray Hurteau
Posted
  • Developer
  • Boston, MA
  • Posts 128
  • Votes 66

Hi @Naoise M., welcome!  There is another thread on this similar topic I've been posting to which you may find helpful!  Best of luck in your endeavors!

http://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/12/topics/1933...

-Ray

Post: New Investor Greater Boston Area Help!

Ray Hurteau
Posted
  • Developer
  • Boston, MA
  • Posts 128
  • Votes 66

Hey @Anthony D., I just realized your initial question was about financing a deal since you don't have cash... LOL

If you can't afford a down payment, you may want to look into possible seller financing. This is tough since most will still want some down payment.  At the least, you may want to consider partnering up with someone willing to fund the deal and sharing in the profits.  If you buy below market price (for any number of reasons, such as needs repairs, motivated seller, etc), you can do a short term note with a private investor and plan to cash them out by getting traditional financing.  This assumes you will have enough equity in the property (25%) so that you won't need to come to the bank closing with much/any out of pocket.

If you have any deals in mind, feel free to shoot me a PM.  I'd either be interested myself or can get in touch with someone I know who could be too.

You can also try to find someone who does have cash and form an LLC and give everyone a share of the LLC and they would be owners of the building with you). I'm sure there are some other ways to get a property without having much in your bank account. You will need to find the deal though (gotta bring something to the table).

You could also explore flipping to get cash for a down payment.  Or you can (again) find a deal, wholesale to someone who can buy/flip and save up for a down payment.  Lots of options for you.  Keep researching!

Post: New Investor Greater Boston Area Help!

Ray Hurteau
Posted
  • Developer
  • Boston, MA
  • Posts 128
  • Votes 66

@Shaun Reilly I agree the prices have gone up very fast and in many areas have surpassed the 2005-2007 prices we saw. It's good to give cautionary advice, but if you look hard enough and can hustle a bit, there are deals to be had. More probable than not (like that Brady reference?), the best deal is off the MLS, as you and Donald state.

With regards to appreciation/depreciation, Boston is unique in that there will be higher demand for city living until a shift towards suburbs and rural happen (if/when?).  Most young professionals, college students, and those who work in the city are the ones keeping demand up and the shift towards moving in to the cities continues, especially with public transit expanding in various parts.

Should there be another dip in the market, if your play is long term and you can keep the mortgage payments (again, being conservative with rents and not over-extending yourself), then it should be a good play.  No koolaid in my opinion.  Like I said, you have to run the numbers and see if it makes sense.

Regarding the vacancies, Don said it best:

There are only 2 reasons why you cannot rent an apartment: price or quality.  If the owner overpaid and assumed he could get top dollar for rent and now can't and it's going to kill his mortgage and cause him to short sale, then shame on him.  I'm a numbers guy and if the (conservative) numbers work at a specific price, whether it's 20% above or below listing, it doesn't matter to me.  Obviously, try to get the best price!  Koolaid OUT!

Post: New Investor Greater Boston Area Help!

Ray Hurteau
Posted
  • Developer
  • Boston, MA
  • Posts 128
  • Votes 66

@Donald Morrison

I don't understand your (rant?)... yes, prices are high, so looking to buy an owner occupied in an area that is developing is expensive/tough... it all about the numbers.  I think @Anthony D. was looking for ideas to work around the obstacles, not a recap of what they are.  I believe your suggestion is to look outside metro Boston, is that right?

Anthony, I would suggest trying to find alternate means of getting in touch with owners. Door knocking, direct mail, FSBP, expired MLS listings, even the zillow make me move data.. who knows! But MLS is a mad-house and you may not be able to get a good cash flowing property that way at this time.

But first, figure out your financial situation. I assume you already have a good grasp of this. Specifically, put a spreadsheet together and pretend you're going to buy a place - pick any place, even if on the MLS. You can use rent-o-meter or scour craigslist to see what places are renting for in specific conditions and areas. You can start to get ballpark ideas to plug into your formula. IT'S ALL ABOUT THE NUMBERS.

You want to put together an operating statement to see if a specific purchase would cash flow or not.  Maybe you are renting and paying 2k a month in rent, but if you buy something, you'd only be out 500 a month, which is definitely an upgrade.  And after you move our after X years, you can rent your unit and be cash flow positive. 

Simulate a purchase, then once you start looking around you will get more accustomed to working leads and knowing if one will work for you.  And if any owner says "well it could rent for X but I'm under charging", I always respond with "I'm sorry, I can only offer X because it's based on what you're actually getting, not what you can get.  But if you can show me a lease with higher rents, I'll definitely consider the price you're looking for."  Doesn't always get a lead converted, but there's usually a reason why they aren't getting what they think they can.

By the way, Dorchester is a good alternative area in Boston - the prices aren't sky high like other areas, and the area is/will change (closer to public transit, the better).  Good luck!

Post: Deal Analysis Help

Ray Hurteau
Posted
  • Developer
  • Boston, MA
  • Posts 128
  • Votes 66

@Daniel Levine

Here's how we underwrite ours leads to see if they are deals worth doing:

1) Determine the average of SOLD MLS comps (just to be clear, each comp has to be as similar in size, bed/bath, condition, lot size, parking, etc as possible, and always within a distance that makes sense 1-2 miles rural, 0.25-0.5 miles urban - the more familiar you are with your market, the more you will know how to adjust for any deviations - and it must be sold within the last 6 months) - minimum of 3 comps, we take the average of all the comps and then take 10% off. This is aggressive and usually disqualifies us from the majority of the deals because most investors assume price appreciation/stability (moreso now than ever) which leads to higher offer but lower returns to the investor. Simply not worth it to us, especially if we're risking our money, private money, bank money, our contractors getting paid, and continuing to have a business if the market takes a turn for the worse.

2) Learn your soft costs - this will take a while if you've never done a flip, but there are plenty of ways to determine them and you want to be sure you know as many as possible.  Then add 10% to it for the costs you won't know about until you actually do the work (e.g. city/town-specific fees, etc).

3) REHAB costs... another very difficult piece if you've never done one.  So how do you determine it for your area.  I recommend networking with investors at REIAs and asking them what they pay $/sq ft and how they source their contractors.  Folks with lower $/sq ft will be the folks who have full time crews and have fixed costs, so the more deals they do, the less their $/sq ft (obviously, it never gets to 0 and there is a base).  Err on the side of caution and do like the comps piece, find 3 similar investors and find out what their rehab costs were and be sure the scope of work and finishes match.  A fluff and buff rehab is way less than a full gut obviously.  So get averages like in #1 above and then be comfortable, maybe add 10-25% as contingency since you've never done one.  You will very much appreciate this because something will come up during the rehab that you did not budget for.

4) Put it all together, in a spreadsheet hopefully, and make it your deal analyzer template.  We have our offer process down to a fairly accurate science (I still have some ways to improve our models, but i'm also a perfectionist).  Be sure you include line items for points, interest, etc, depending on how you are going to finance your deals.

It is not easy to get a good deal, at least in our market.  case in point, we took over 200 calls to find one that worked.  but we know it will work, we know it can withstand any major hiccups on the rehab and/or market end, and we know anyone we go to will lend on it. 

And because funding a deal is the #1 concern for most new investors, wouldn't it be great to have a well-thought out story about how you underwrote your deal conservatively and accounted for the fact that you are new to the game and you have a story for each line item besides "my best guess based on....????" (sorry, not meant to offend).

I know a lot of the comments, mine included, can seem harsh.  You are learning and you're doing the right thing posting here.  Take these comments in stride, keep working your models, don't do this particular deal, and you will find each potential deal will become much easier to analyze and you will have much more confidence in yourself and be able to weed out these time-wasters much faster, allowing you to process more leads.

My other opinion is that if MLS deals are getting multiple bids, it's time to find new lead sources. I don't know your market, so I could be wrong, but the general consensus is that the market is back in most places so there's going to be too much competition from DIY'ers bidding, uneducated new investors, etc.

Good luck!!

Post: Rezoning for a Condo Conversion

Ray Hurteau
Posted
  • Developer
  • Boston, MA
  • Posts 128
  • Votes 66
Originally posted by @Christian Austin:

The P+S is structured so that the sale is contingent on the town approving rezoning for a 3 family building. Earnest money is structured as 3% upon signing the P+S and 2% upon rezoning approval by the town. If rezoning is not approved all earnest is returned.

As far as the approval process, I will be working with a couple of attorneys in the town that the condo conversion is in. They have done rezoning in the town before. I was not able to find a way to avoid putting up money before getting approval. Our first step in the approval process is to draw up plot plans and bring them to the town engineer to see if we even have a chance. My attorneys think there is a a good chance this will go through, or else we wouldn't have proceeded. 

Nice!  That's how you do a safer deal than most, especially if you don't have the cash (and absolute certainty of ZBA approval) to compete with the big players who typically buy all cash and no contingencies.  You get to offer a carrot to the seller in the form of a higher price, but you get to hedge your bet with the ZBA approval.

Post: Real Estate Lawyer to Write up Rental Agreement

Ray Hurteau
Posted
  • Developer
  • Boston, MA
  • Posts 128
  • Votes 66

I agree with @Rob Beland - leases are standard forms in Boston - having an attorney's name on the top doesn't do anything - the terms you have in the lease and your lease addendum, which would be used in court (if it has to go there) are what you really should care about.  

If anything, you should come up with your own rental application rather than use the GBREB form, which is too condensed and doesn't ask for enough.  There are plenty of suggestions on BP, especially in the ultimate tenant guide, which is awesome!

Post: Need advice on dealing with contractors

Ray Hurteau
Posted
  • Developer
  • Boston, MA
  • Posts 128
  • Votes 66

by the way, i'm not trying to defend the contractor because if you asked for plans, he should have given them too you.  but I'm just trying to think like a judge would if you try to go to court over this.

@Wayne Brooks - in Boston, you can get a simple permit for something non-structural (which an exterior deck would be) without needing to submit any plans

@Georges A. - if the permit for the deck is not in your window (piece of paper with a B as a watermark, then you may have an issue).  if you do have that, the permit number is on there.  if you're not sure, you can look it up here: https://data.cityofboston.gov/Permitting/Approved-...

The site is, unfortunately, a little difficult to use.  Knowing your parcel ID is a big help and can be found online with the tax info on the city of boston government site.

Post: Need advice on dealing with contractors

Ray Hurteau
Posted
  • Developer
  • Boston, MA
  • Posts 128
  • Votes 66

Hi @Georges A., what were the dimensions of the existing deck? Is the new deck the exact same footprint as the existing deck? There are two things at play here: (1) the dimensions of the old deck, which cannot be increased without triggering a variance of building code (unless you have a larger lot and 20+ feet of space from the back and 15+ feet on either side - don't quote me on the exact numbers). (2) What is specifically written in your contract with regards to the plans/design? If written plans were not part of the contract, then you know your answer, which is #2 (sorry).

Most contractors do not draw plans anyway; architects create plans (to scale, etc). Normally it's not done for something like a deck, unless you were going to submit for a variance with the city. Building code dictates a minimum rise over run (how much height can be gained versus the depth of the step). If your old steps were like a navy ship, steep and not much depth to each step, then it's to be expected that you are going to lose some space. Sometimes you can get creative with the design. Knowing the overall dimensions in relation to your door would be helpful.

With regards to payments and the hiring/contract part, did you confirm he is licensed? The first third is usually for materials, the second third can be after the framing of the deck is built, new footings are poured (if they needed to be) - which is two inspections, one for footings, one for rough framing (but not always enforced in Boston), and mostly covers materials and labor. Obviously the final third is when everything is done and you're happy. Materials aren't cheap. 15k for the whole job isn't an unusual rate in Boston, I am sure he is making a fair profit.

I'd be careful firing him at this stage of the rebuild, especially if he's performed according to the contract you both signed. We use detailed contracts and/or have architect plans. Sometimes things change, but it's always best to have a clause stating that if the product is to be built different than the design, they have to clear it with us or else they may not get paid for that work and any re-work.

We've had many issues like this before and unfortunately, you just have to learn from them sometimes.

Post: Big Hellos from Boston Area

Ray Hurteau
Posted
  • Developer
  • Boston, MA
  • Posts 128
  • Votes 66

Hey @James Bell, Welcome!

A MFH within 45 min of Boston - that's definitely doable.  How about your current location.  Do you like the house?  Think your landlord would sell to you?  Thinking like that would be a good way to snap up a house off-market.  Of course, it all depends on your financial situation.  Somerville is competitive, since it's obviously been getting hot over the past few years.

Having listened to 50 of the podcasts, you should definitely have some good ideas and strategies to acquire and manage a multi-family.  Best of luck on the hunt and feel free to PM if you have any questions.

-Ray