Skip to content
×
PRO
Pro Members Get Full Access!
Get off the sidelines and take action in real estate investing with BiggerPockets Pro. Our comprehensive suite of tools and resources minimize mistakes, support informed decisions, and propel you to success.
Advanced networking features
Market and Deal Finder tools
Property analysis calculators
Landlord Command Center
$0
TODAY
$69.00/month when billed monthly.
$32.50/month when billed annually.
7 day free trial. Cancel anytime
Already a Pro Member? Sign in here
Pick markets, find deals, analyze and manage properties. Try BiggerPockets PRO.
x
All Forum Categories
All Forum Categories
Followed Discussions
Followed Categories
Followed People
Followed Locations
Market News & Data
General Info
Real Estate Strategies
Landlording & Rental Properties
Real Estate Professionals
Financial, Tax, & Legal
Real Estate Classifieds
Reviews & Feedback

All Forum Posts by: Paul Klei

Paul Klei has started 3 posts and replied 57 times.

Post: Billboard Lease Agreement Question...

Paul KleiPosted
  • Investor
  • Texas
  • Posts 57
  • Votes 5

There is also royalty-based financing, for example for oil & gas or music royalties. This may be the closest analogue to what I am seeking. I.e., financing based on future income. 

Post: Billboard Lease Agreement Question...

Paul KleiPosted
  • Investor
  • Texas
  • Posts 57
  • Votes 5
Quote from @Shane H.:
Quote from @Caroline Gerardo:

No you cannot use income that doesn't exist yet to build the billboard. That's like  construction loan that you want which I know of no lender that does small commercial construction on a billboard.

Hard money at 40% value of the land alone, personal guarantee, you have to qualify the land has no income, probably 12 months term due in full.

What is the raw land worth? 

I think what they are trying to do is so unique no one is following. They’re not building their own sign. They are signing a land lease to a large company. That company is building the sign with their money, they will own the structure, the permits, etc. they will pay a yearly lease payment to the land owner. 

the question is, can they borrow against the lease. For sake of discussion let’s say it’s a 50 year lease at 10,000/yr. They would like to borrow against the $500,000 that the lease will bring in over 50 years. 

 Correct. Thanks Shane. I wasn't aware this was such a unique idea. Assets are meant to be leveraged. There are HELOCs, portfolio loans, policy loans/IBLOCs, and passbook loans to access the value in the equity in your home/investment property, stock portfolio, cash value of a life insurance policy, and savings accounts. Businesses have accounts receivable and revenue-based financing available. 

A cell tower lease, a solar farm lease, or a billboard can be significant assets that, in my mind, should be able to be leveraged as well.

Post: Billboard Lease Agreement Question...

Paul KleiPosted
  • Investor
  • Texas
  • Posts 57
  • Votes 5
Quote from @Caroline Gerardo:

If there is no payment on the lease lender will use zero income. We use income in the past averaged not income possible in the future. Is the billboard already built? If the land is without any structure the land has little value. What comparable sales have raw land with a billboard in any market ~~ there will be few or none. Land takes years to sell. This is why I asked you what the location is - that matters.

What was prior use of land, environmental impact, weather there, are there utilities, possible development... 

A lot in the desert next to a freeway different than a lot next to an oil rig... @Paul Klei


 Construction will begin after we sign the lease. The first payment will be made after construction, in advance annually. Once the sign is built, and payments have thus begun, is there a financing option - that is what I am trying to determine. I apologize for the lack of clarity. The land itself is a vacant lot along a freeway in New Boston, TX. I don't live there so I couldn't tell you a lot about the area but it could have future development possibilities. Other than that the billboard income is what I was planning on using as a value-add to obtain financing. And to be clear, the financing is necessarily tied to the underlying land, as opposed to the lease itself, independently of the land? Meaning, can I borrow against the lease income itself?

Quote from @Cason Acor:

@Shane H. some of this is market specific and will depend on how sophisticated/aggressive the advertising company is that someone is negotiating with. For example, in my market, two companies own 95% of the billboards along the interstates. Neither of these companies offers nor agrees to revenue share as part of their leases. So regular base rent escalations is the only way to stay on top of the market.

This company dominates the market in this area. In fact they have several billboards nearby, even one 1200' away so they are obtaining a special permit from DOT to build a new sign on my land. But their proposal was 20% revenue share to "simplify the situation" after I mentioned base rent. In light of what you've said, what does this suggest? 

Post: Billboard Lease Agreement Question...

Paul KleiPosted
  • Investor
  • Texas
  • Posts 57
  • Votes 5
Quote from @Caroline Gerardo:

Land is commercial and no building?

Company leasing is a Lamar/JCDecaux/Clear Channel

Lease must have greater than 36 month term and first payment to be considered any type of income.

Vacant land with a sign has little value.

Building with income tenants plus sign commercial has valuation.


Land is commercial with no building. 

Company is Lindmark. 

To clarify, the lender does not consider a signed lease agreement in it's valuation until the first payment, even if the agreement sets out a minimum base rent, rather than just revenue share.  Correct?

Vacant land with a sign has little value meaning no value? If a little, how is that value calculated by the lender? That is my main concern - to monetize the lease or lease/land combination. 

Post: Billboard Lease Agreement Question...

Paul KleiPosted
  • Investor
  • Texas
  • Posts 57
  • Votes 5
Quote from @Caroline Gerardo:

To get the billboard down they need access to the building. Where is access? Who lets them in? The liability of accident vs $55 is nuts. They are rusty and funky from rear view. I imagine the company would not take them down unless out of spite as they aren't worth anything to the billboard co- not like they are electronic Vegas light up ones. 

First idea is to send them new lease with monthly rents of $21000+ and proof of seventeen million dollars liability insurance or some sky high claim to get rid of them. Are they a National brand like Lamar?  A big company will also have suits, and that costs money and time. It's not a perpetual lease right, please say no. Is the original person on the lease still in business/alive maybe it could not be assigned -another legal thing to fight. 
Ginsberg v. Gamson (2012) 205 Cal.App.4th 873

DO NOT TAKE THEM DOWN you will never be allowed to put them back up.  Send letter with new lease terms or 60 day move out and lock the door to the roof. Put signs up about cameras and bad guys on the roof tagging...    I'd claim it's permanently fixed the the property and owned by landlord by now. Lease ended. Isn't it being taxed? Check with planning desk

Hey I'd rent one for way more than $55

I am not an attorney this is not legal advice, just my opinion


 I am presently negotiating a lease to allow a sign to be built on my land. I'd like to monetize the lease. In your experience, how is a lease appraised by lenders? I was originally trying to get the largest gross value possible with base rent, an escalation provision, and a revenue provision on top. Over a 75-year term it would add up to quite a bit. However if valuation is based on a multiple of annual revenue, perhaps I need a different strategy. In any case, what provides value to a lease in the eyes of a lender? And once the lease is signed and the billboard is complete (they'll pay annually in advance), how/where do I seek financing using the billboard income? Thanks

Quote from @Ronald Rohde:

Everything is negotiable, have they had frequent advertiser changes? That demonstrates demand. Granted its a very loose proxy for "market rent" for the physical lease. 


I am presently negotiating a lease to allow a sign to be built on my land. Is there a way to remove or mitigate the sole discretion language that allows them to remove the sign or stop/lower rent payments? They are also offering 20% of revenue, seemingly without a base rent, although I prefer both for the sake of valuation. DOT says traffic will increase soon and I'd like to account for that. I am considering compromising at 10% of revenue for base rent and 10% revenue share. I am receiving mixed advice of the necessity of an escalation clause if I am getting base rent and revenue share. In your experience, are escalation clauses common/reasonable in this situation? Thanks  

I'm presently negotiating a lease to allow a sign to be built on my land. Is there a way to remove or mitigate the sole discretion language that allows them to remove the sign or stop/lower rent? I want to monetize the lease. Are you familiar with how leases are appraised in terms of how they are structured (length, escalation clause, etc)? 

Post: what should I charge for a billboard land lease?

Paul KleiPosted
  • Investor
  • Texas
  • Posts 57
  • Votes 5
Quote from @Jessica Zolotorofe:
I'm not familiar with that area, but it depends on a lot of factors, of course the traffic like you mentioned, what the municipality will allow as far as how many square feet of advertising they can get, and then depending on how big of a company you're talking about for the billboard, an international company, or the local pizza place, it could vary a lot. I've seen low-traffic area rural leases at $1,000 and more populated but not main thoroughway or city for $5,000 to $15,000. And definitely include escalation clauses if you can. Again, totally depends on so many variables. Also, I always make sure that my clients include that it is the lessee's responsibility to pay for a survey or to prepare a legal description to attach to the lease, and they have to handle all of the approvals and zoning issues at their expense. I would make sure that it's a ground lease, and they have to maintain the billboard and it's structural components as well as the ground area around it in good condition and they remove the billboard when their lease is up (or at least the actual face of the billboard and you can decide whether you want the structure down, too). Any electricity, their expense, too. If they want you to do anything at all, rent goes up. Also make sure that your lease restricts their ability to assign or sublease, and you should have reasonable consent rights as to content. Not sure what else is on the property, but make sure they can't advertise competitors of current tenants, if applicable, especially if you are leasing to a general ad company, or you'll have some unhappy tenants! And of course nothing obscene or distasteful, I always include nothing controversial, political, etc. whatever that means, but allows you some leeway to deny consent for things you don't want on your property. Lots to consider! Happy to chat further if you want to email or message me. Good luck!

 Also, I'd like to negotiate out the sole discretion language that allows them to remove the sign or lower/stop rent payments. Is there a way to remove or mitigate that language? And, to your knowledge, does that language affect appraisal of the lease? Thanks!

Post: what should I charge for a billboard land lease?

Paul KleiPosted
  • Investor
  • Texas
  • Posts 57
  • Votes 5
Quote from @Jessica Zolotorofe:
I'm not familiar with that area, but it depends on a lot of factors, of course the traffic like you mentioned, what the municipality will allow as far as how many square feet of advertising they can get, and then depending on how big of a company you're talking about for the billboard, an international company, or the local pizza place, it could vary a lot. I've seen low-traffic area rural leases at $1,000 and more populated but not main thoroughway or city for $5,000 to $15,000. And definitely include escalation clauses if you can. Again, totally depends on so many variables. Also, I always make sure that my clients include that it is the lessee's responsibility to pay for a survey or to prepare a legal description to attach to the lease, and they have to handle all of the approvals and zoning issues at their expense. I would make sure that it's a ground lease, and they have to maintain the billboard and it's structural components as well as the ground area around it in good condition and they remove the billboard when their lease is up (or at least the actual face of the billboard and you can decide whether you want the structure down, too). Any electricity, their expense, too. If they want you to do anything at all, rent goes up. Also make sure that your lease restricts their ability to assign or sublease, and you should have reasonable consent rights as to content. Not sure what else is on the property, but make sure they can't advertise competitors of current tenants, if applicable, especially if you are leasing to a general ad company, or you'll have some unhappy tenants! And of course nothing obscene or distasteful, I always include nothing controversial, political, etc. whatever that means, but allows you some leeway to deny consent for things you don't want on your property. Lots to consider! Happy to chat further if you want to email or message me. Good luck!

 I am negotiating a lease to allow a sign to be built on my land. They are offering 20% of revenue. I would like a base rent so that there is predictable income to better facilitate lease valuation because I would like to monetize the lease. I am considering asking for 10% of revenue as the minimum, plus 10% variable revenue share. I would like an escalation clause for the base rent but I'm receiving mixed advice about this. I've been told leases are appraised at 8-10x annual revenue, as opposed to gross lease value. Do you have any idea how leases are appraised in relation to how they are structured, escalation clauses, etc.?