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All Forum Posts by: Patrick Roberts

Patrick Roberts has started 4 posts and replied 499 times.

Post: How necessary is a history of personal financial statements for a lender?

Patrick Roberts
#3 Private Lending & Conventional Mortgage Advice Contributor
Posted
  • Lender
  • Charleston, SC
  • Posts 507
  • Votes 383

Personal financial statements are primarily a bank thing. These are typically not required for Conventional/Govt loans - we get what we need for assets, income, and credit relative to each loan and that's it. For specialty programs, these may be required. 

Post: Recourse vs Non Recourse: A common question I get

Patrick Roberts
#3 Private Lending & Conventional Mortgage Advice Contributor
Posted
  • Lender
  • Charleston, SC
  • Posts 507
  • Votes 383

I get this question a ton, also. I'm not sure why there's such a big misunderstanding around these. Very, very few residential RE loans allow nonrecourse.

Post: What should I do when I'm 17 making 36,000 a year

Patrick Roberts
#3 Private Lending & Conventional Mortgage Advice Contributor
Posted
  • Lender
  • Charleston, SC
  • Posts 507
  • Votes 383

Once you're 18 with two years of job history, you can start by househacking with a primary and renting out any spare rooms or part of the house. In the meantime, stay focused on two things - piling up cash and upskilling. 

For the upskilling part, start attending the local REI meetups in BR. Red Stick REIA is probably the largest, and The RING is the other. If you're going to go to college, start preparing for that. If not, start learning a trade if you aren't already (electrician, HVAC, plumber, etc). Trade skills are lucrative these days, can easily lead to you building your own business, and will put you miles ahead when it comes to flips and rehabs on properties. If you want to be more on the knowledge/digital side of skill, marketing is a good place to start. Marketing is core to every business in existence and is critically important in RE. These are just suggestions - find some overlap between your interests and your natural talents, and then figure out where that aligns in the market.

As someone else said, continue to soak up as much knowledge and info as you can - reading, podcasts, etc. You're absolutely on the right path. 

I'm from BR. DM me if I can help - more than happy to help where I can. 

Post: What part of rental income do lenders consider?

Patrick Roberts
#3 Private Lending & Conventional Mortgage Advice Contributor
Posted
  • Lender
  • Charleston, SC
  • Posts 507
  • Votes 383
Quote from @Account Closed:
Quote from @Patrick Roberts:

For Conventional, there are two basic ways that income is evaluated - properties being placed into service (such as a new property being purchased), and properties already in service. For properties being placed into service for the first time, 75% for the gross rent (based on the appraisal/1007) is used. 25% is assumed as expenses/vacancy. 

For properties already in service, the bottom line on Sched E (or however you're reporting) is used. Start with the bottom line, then add back mortgage interest, property taxes/ insurance/HOA fees (assuming they are escrowed), and any noncash and onetime/extraordinary expenses, such as depreciation. Once you have this figure, net it against the mortgage payment for that property (if there is one). If the net figure is positive, meaning there is positive cashflow, it's added to your gross monthly income. If it's negative, it's considered to be a liability/debt and feeds into your DTI. If there is no mortgage payment at present, escrow items are not added back in the above explanation.

It's more nuanced than this and there are many exceptions/caveats, but this gives a high-level explanation. 

For DSCR loans, in most cases, the raw rental income is used, whether based on the rental appraisal (1007) or an actual lease. Some lenders compare this to only the actual mortgage payment and some include an expense factor. DTI and personal income are not considered.


Thank you for the information! Do lenders use the 80%/75% rule for in-service rental properties(non commercial)? Or do they just go by the bottom up calculation you outlined? I've heard that lenders take your total rent and consider 75-80% of it in your monthly income to get your DTI.


For Conventional, there is no percentage/factor reduction where there is historical income figures to work with (reported a tax form)- the figures from the tax return are used. For DSCR loans, this literally varies by lender and by rental type (LTR, STR).

Post: What part of rental income do lenders consider?

Patrick Roberts
#3 Private Lending & Conventional Mortgage Advice Contributor
Posted
  • Lender
  • Charleston, SC
  • Posts 507
  • Votes 383

For Conventional, there are two basic ways that income is evaluated - properties being placed into service (such as a new property being purchased), and properties already in service. For properties being placed into service for the first time, 75% for the gross rent (based on the appraisal/1007) is used. 25% is assumed as expenses/vacancy. 

For properties already in service, the bottom line on Sched E (or however you're reporting) is used. Start with the bottom line, then add back mortgage interest, property taxes/ insurance/HOA fees (assuming they are escrowed), and any noncash and onetime/extraordinary expenses, such as depreciation. Once you have this figure, net it against the mortgage payment for that property (if there is one). If the net figure is positive, meaning there is positive cashflow, it's added to your gross monthly income. If it's negative, it's considered to be a liability/debt and feeds into your DTI. If there is no mortgage payment at present, escrow items are not added back in the above explanation.

It's more nuanced than this and there are many exceptions/caveats, but this gives a high-level explanation. 

For DSCR loans, in most cases, the raw rental income is used, whether based on the rental appraisal (1007) or an actual lease. Some lenders compare this to only the actual mortgage payment and some include an expense factor. DTI and personal income are not considered.

Post: House Hacking a Single Family within Year 1 of Mortgage.

Patrick Roberts
#3 Private Lending & Conventional Mortgage Advice Contributor
Posted
  • Lender
  • Charleston, SC
  • Posts 507
  • Votes 383
Quote from @Peter McCauley:

Patrick,

Thank you for the advice and feedback. I will be sure to put a lease in place and contact a tax professional who has expertise in real estate. In terms of the loan(s), I currently have a steady and competitive W2 job and very low DTI, however I'll ensure to verify the rules and regulations for rental income when shopping lenders, so I don't hit a roadblock when buying the next rental.
Again, thank you for your response. 


 No problem. Sounds like you're in good shape. Give me a call if you want me to take a look at this. 

Post: Tax Lien Sale Courthouse Steps - Really weird - Why did this happen????

Patrick Roberts
#3 Private Lending & Conventional Mortgage Advice Contributor
Posted
  • Lender
  • Charleston, SC
  • Posts 507
  • Votes 383
Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
Quote from @Patrick Roberts:
Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
Quote from @Kevin Sobilo:
Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
Quote from @Kevin Sobilo:
Quote from @Russell R Massey:

To be clear. The property is not worth more than maybe $5k and really nothing because unbuildable. 

Kevin - I was just thinking a bit along those lines. That sounds like a good way to launder money. Find anyone really to sign a quit claim or make them up, have it notarized (the notary's name is not on the GA notary list by the way), and then buy a property for $90k, you take a $8k hit on the fees, then you get back the overage paid to you by the city. 
Washed clean.   


Except that the owner cannot buy the property at auction! So, the money laundering scheme falls apart there.

However, as I said an investor could strike an honest deal anticipating that the property will sell for more than the taxes owed and be willing to gamble on that.

If they won't allow the property to be built on because of zoning then the municipality could be forced to pay for it as I said because they have in essence "taken" the property through the zoning ordinance by eliminating any viable use for it. So, they could also force the municipality to pay them some profit that way as well since those sales usually go for more than you might think is market rate.

If there are other small lots around that neighborhood, the zoning board likely will approve some kind of building though.



they will say you can operate a parking lot there.. plus who is going to spend the thousands upon thousands litigating this with the city ???

I don't know the character of the neighborhood. In an congested area offstreet parking might be needed. In my market there are streets with almost no driveways because lots are only 20-30 feet wide and where there are streets with parking on only one side it gets difficult.

So, in a circumstance like that a small paid parking lot could pay off and be WELCOMED by the municipality.

I am an active builder in downtown Charleston SC and talk about small lots and roads only 20 feet wide logistics to build are brutual.. I looked at one lot U could build on it but there is only a 5 foot path to haul material in.. :) and they want 300k for it.. 


I feel you on this. I live downtown CHS. Our house sits on a 30x60 lot and is "normal" for our neighborhood. There's currently an infill lot for sale on Catfiddle for $350k and the entire lot is 1,300 sqft.  


catfiddle is the one I am talking about you simply cannot get materials to that lot without walking them in.. They needed to build that lot first and worked there selves back out . in essence they landlocked themselves. 

 Yeah I was curious and looked at it a while back as I live not far from it. It would probably be cheaper to have materials dropped on the lot from above by a CH53 than to have them carried in lol.

Post: House Hacking a Single Family within Year 1 of Mortgage.

Patrick Roberts
#3 Private Lending & Conventional Mortgage Advice Contributor
Posted
  • Lender
  • Charleston, SC
  • Posts 507
  • Votes 383

This is perfectly fine. As long as you intend to live in the property as your primary residence, then a primary residence mortgage is appropriate. You wont be able to use the potential boarder income to qualify unless part of the property is an ADU, so you'll need to be able to qualify on your own income.

As far as the reporting goes, the rental income and losses will most likely be reported on your Schedule E - speak with a tax professional who has expertise in real estate. I recommend putting a lease in place - if things go sideways, you'll have to get an eviction for the boarder(s) regardless of whether or they've signed a lease. 

For your rinse and repeat househack plans, discuss this with a knowledgeable lender. Each loan product type has different rules and restrictions for using rental income to qualify for new purchase, and some can wreck your plans (such as the FHA 100-mile rule).

Post: Tax Lien Sale Courthouse Steps - Really weird - Why did this happen????

Patrick Roberts
#3 Private Lending & Conventional Mortgage Advice Contributor
Posted
  • Lender
  • Charleston, SC
  • Posts 507
  • Votes 383
Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
Quote from @Kevin Sobilo:
Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
Quote from @Kevin Sobilo:
Quote from @Russell R Massey:

To be clear. The property is not worth more than maybe $5k and really nothing because unbuildable. 

Kevin - I was just thinking a bit along those lines. That sounds like a good way to launder money. Find anyone really to sign a quit claim or make them up, have it notarized (the notary's name is not on the GA notary list by the way), and then buy a property for $90k, you take a $8k hit on the fees, then you get back the overage paid to you by the city. 
Washed clean.   


Except that the owner cannot buy the property at auction! So, the money laundering scheme falls apart there.

However, as I said an investor could strike an honest deal anticipating that the property will sell for more than the taxes owed and be willing to gamble on that.

If they won't allow the property to be built on because of zoning then the municipality could be forced to pay for it as I said because they have in essence "taken" the property through the zoning ordinance by eliminating any viable use for it. So, they could also force the municipality to pay them some profit that way as well since those sales usually go for more than you might think is market rate.

If there are other small lots around that neighborhood, the zoning board likely will approve some kind of building though.



they will say you can operate a parking lot there.. plus who is going to spend the thousands upon thousands litigating this with the city ???

I don't know the character of the neighborhood. In an congested area offstreet parking might be needed. In my market there are streets with almost no driveways because lots are only 20-30 feet wide and where there are streets with parking on only one side it gets difficult.

So, in a circumstance like that a small paid parking lot could pay off and be WELCOMED by the municipality.

I am an active builder in downtown Charleston SC and talk about small lots and roads only 20 feet wide logistics to build are brutual.. I looked at one lot U could build on it but there is only a 5 foot path to haul material in.. :) and they want 300k for it.. 


I feel you on this. I live downtown CHS. Our house sits on a 30x60 lot and is "normal" for our neighborhood. There's currently an infill lot for sale on Catfiddle for $350k and the entire lot is 1,300 sqft.  

Post: My monthly tax payment increased by a $600

Patrick Roberts
#3 Private Lending & Conventional Mortgage Advice Contributor
Posted
  • Lender
  • Charleston, SC
  • Posts 507
  • Votes 383
Quote from @Jamaal Smith:
Quote from @Chris Seveney:

@Jamaal Smith

Was the increase due to local tax increase in rates or due to valuation

Most property taxes are increasing significantly as is insurance because of inflation - everything has gotten more expensive

You can try and contest the assessment and see if it reduces taxes.


 I was told it was due to the value increasing


 Check to see whether the tax authority's assessment of the property value is reasonable. It could be this was a standard periodic reassessment to account for market value increases and there's nothing to fight. I'm not super familiar with TX, but an area of Louisiana that I work is currently in a reassessment year and a lot of people I know are getting sticker shock from tax increases. 

Also, check whether there was an escrow shortage when taxes were last paid by the servicer. If the taxes were increased and the escrows that were collected up to that point were insufficient to cover the new tax bill, then your future mortgage payment will increase by an amount that will cover the new tax bill AND make up for the shortage from the previous payment. Once the shortage is repaid, the monthly payment will drop by a corresponding amount. This is commonly repaid over a one year period.

To clarify with an overly-simple example- you said $600/month in an increase. It's possible that the annual tax bill increased by $3,600.00/year, and there was a shortage of that amount when the bill was paid. Going forward, the tax escrow component of your mortgage payment increased by $600. $300 is to escrow for the new annual tax bill, and another $300 is to repay the $3,600 shortage that the servicer paid on your behalf previously. Once the shortage has been repaid, the payment will be adjusted again and the $300 shortage repayment component will be removed. I don't know if this is what happened, but I see this scenario a lot. A quick call to your servicer will clarify.