Originally posted by @Carlos Fernandez:
Originally posted by @Michael Tempel:
This will be my last comment on this. The efficiency of the panels degrades each year, which actually dimishes returns even more. Plus my guess is the technology will become better, why be stuck with old obsolete technology for 18 years?
I am all for solar, good friend runs a solar outfit in Washington, it unfortunately doesn't pay off yet (that's why government programs and interest free financing is needed). LED conversions mixed with occupancy sensors have saved over 50% immediately with a payback of less then 2 years.
1.) Most panels degrade .7%, and the performance is guaranteed for 90% at year 10, and 80% from year 25 through the life of the system.
So a panel that produces 280 watts degrades less than 2 frickin' watts/yr., and by year 25 it will still produce 224 watts/yr. Bottom line is that even in 25 years the technology will not be obsolete, and the savings are immediate.
2.) Like others have said, first you retrofit your house addressing the main energy draws: HVAC, hot water, attic, variable speed pool pump if applicable, etc. The ROI is much quicker, from 3-5 years. In colder climates, windows are critical (I cannot speak to that b/c I live in Miami and I'm from LA, so never been an issue). From there, you can go PV.
3.) Solar is highly regional, but the average install price per kW is going way down. Where there's high demand, less so. Where there's low demand, less so b/c of lack of economies of scale. In CA, the ROI is about 7-8 yrs. The higher the price per kW, the quicker the ROI obviously. In Florida, most companies are about 9-10 years. My company is 7-8, but we focus on volume and have low overhead (one of the few licensed solar installers is on staff; saves us a ton of money).
4.) Your math in a previous post was criminally off. You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.
I expect that you don't fake like you're a physician or a dentist or a lawyer, so please refrain from posing as if you know what you're talking about. Any idiot can do a google search of solar panels on a home and see that the dimension you quote are ... absurd.
Carlos these were the numbers given to us by the company pitching them to us for a 275 unit 7 buildings. Basically between rebates, goverment tax incentives (which unfortunately didn't benefit us due to the structure of our deal) and interest free financing. Without all these incentives the system would never be viable at all.
I was extremely excited about the idea until I started doing the math. These are for large panels at a price of $120,000 per building and in this pitch had a 20 yr payback (I wasn't the person selling this so don't blame me or call me a criminal). My point is I think the technology is going to be much better/affordable in even 5 years, so why lock into a system that is going to need to be replaced around time of payback? Your selling them, so of course you will disagree :-).
I did talk to a very good developer to investigate as a follow up to our meeting that put these similiar panels on multiple buildings in the a few different cities. He told me they were a pain in the butt (Maintenace etc. at 2 years into it) and because the installation wasn't done exactly right he lost his right to tax incentives.
My math was likely off, this meeting was two years ago, but it simply wasn't there yet in my opinion. I am all for solar when it reaches the same payback as LED and other items that can be implemented with a 1-2 year payback. I apologize if I offended you, I was just disappointed and if possible wanted to incorporate it in all our communities and probably will in the future. I had to wait for LED for the same reason, the technology wasn't reliable and the price was almost double until recently. Nothing worse than installing $15.00 bulbs that had ballast etc issues. Now the cost is much lower ($3.75 -7.00) the technology is reliable (I hope). Every light is LED on our properties and it saves 35-45% of our old electric cost on average, more when combined with occupancy sensors. Trust me I would love to add to the savings with solar!
It may be a completely different story for homes and I am sure the payback varies by region etc. I was just revisiting the frustration of a 2 hour meeting 2 years ago.
