All Forum Posts by: Ryan Moyer

Pricing software pushes to PMS, then PMS pushes to OTA.

Link pricelabs to hospitable and let hospitable push that through to Airbnb.

Same thing with Turno.

People will argue whether you need Hospitable if you only have 1 property, but if you are using it, then Pricelabs/Turno should both be hooked to it rather than the OTAs directly.

These days it's more about finding the right deal than the right market.  It's not like it was a few years ago where you can just waltz into a market with a $500k pre-approval and guarantee yourself $100k income.  Any market where you can do that nowadays likely has some major risk looming overhead regarding potential future regulations or something that is scaring investors away (which I hear people worrying about sometimes regarding the Poconos, where one of the houses you linked was).

What IS still possible is finding a specific deal that will meet those metrics, or CREATING a deal that will meet those metrics (through value-add, etc). This is more in line with typical/traditional real estate investing that likely brought most of us to BP in the first place. In real estate, it's not as easy as just pulling up the MLS, clicking a random link, and getting an awesome property that cash flows amazingly. Deals are out there, they just have to be found. STR was an exception to that for a while when it was unknown and considered risky, but now that it's a legit asset class like LTR SFH or Multifamily etc and the secret is out, it's much more in line with traditional real estate where it's more about the deal than the market.

All imo, of course.

Quote from @Ruth Lyons:

Thanks for this discussion. It makes me so angry that these legislators sit in their offices and try to figure out more ways to tax us. What are the unintended/intended consequences of this? Why do they want to tax this? Let's see -- force the small investors out by making it unaffordable. Another example of big government over-reach through unneeded regulation and taxation. 

This isn't really a new tax though.  It's properly classifying a commercial business as a commercial business.  Just closing a loophole where people were operating commercial businesses without the squeeze.  Fun while it lasted, where we've gotten to have our cake and eat it too, but we'll see this everywhere eventually.

I agree with Shawn.  I manage a handful in the area and at current prices/rates I would not expect to cash flow most months, even with extra marketing, especially if you're paying a manager.  If you want feel free to PM me and I can give you some numbers on how the homes we manage have been performing over the last few months/year and you can plug it in to see how it would work with your underwriting.

To cash flow right now in this market you really need to be theming, imo.  And even then returns can still be tight depending on how good the theming is.

The instant fast cash flow was fun while it lasted, but we're moving into a more typical real estate cycle right now in this market where success is going to be determined by those with patience, looking at it as more of a long-term investment (as real estate has historically been).

Quote from @Charles Wang:

Quote from @Ryan Moyer:

I've come across a decent opportunity on a place in Lake Tahoe.  It's not a market I would typically look in but I have a partner I trust that lives in the Bay area that wants to own in Tahoe and has approached me on a partnership with favorable terms. 

While the terms of the deal make the tolerances on what I would typically look for a little looser, I still want to make sure it's a smart decision that will cashflow well.

I am having a hard time getting good numbers on what to project for annual revenue there.  Looking at AirBnB/VRBO calendars has been tough since the place is so seasonal and we are just entering the shoulder season.  AirDNA/Rabbu are all over the place between $100k - $180k which is a huge spread.

So I am reaching out to see if there are any BP members that actually own there and can provide some gross revenue numbers along with size/home type, or people that have found those numbers from others before.  Feel free to DM if that's easier but open discussion is always welcome too.

 Did you ever end up investing? Would love to hear your experience if you did! I'm looking at a $1.2M 3/2 investment in Placer County near Kings beach right now.

Nope this deal fell through when partner backed out.  Home is probably worth $1M more now.  Bummer!

Quote from @Michael Baum:

Hey @Rosston Smith, have you called the state, county or city to find out? One call should get you an answer.

 The state often has no idea.  May be different in Georgia, but when I called in Florida originally they basically told me "the laws are available, and you and a lawyer need to interpret them, we can't do that for you".  Of course they were extremely confusing to interpret and I think a lot of people interpret them incorrectly.

Worth noting that once I did consult a lawyer, most of the people giving answers on the question online were wrong.

This is just something that is going to require combing through the state law and trying to interpret it, and consulting a lawyer if it's not obvious.  Even in cases where it seems obvious, it's often not.  For instance in Florida a lot of people think a broker's license is required since the law is clear that property management requires a broker's license, and most people quit there.  But if you dig down deeper you find that Florida only considers it "property management" if the average stay is over 30 days.  And stays under that (STRs) are actually not defined as property management or real estate activities, but rather hotel lodging dictated by hotel licensing and laws.

Quote from @Scott E.:

I could be wrong on this but this isn't all it was, right?  People keep quoting the shower thing but the shower was the lessor of the two issues.  If I'm interpreting the article right the dwelling wasn't permitted for occupancy at all, even before the shower remodel.

Quote from @Kaiden Foster:

It seems the general consensus is that it is nearly impossible to get liability insurance as a STR manager? What are STR management companies using then? 

 I talked to a lot of management companies to try and figure this out, and get contacts from them.  I found two repeat things.

1) Insurers that used to offer on STR, but no longer do

2) Insurers that offer on "property management" which does not include STR, but the people buying the policy didn't notice.

#2 is the scary one. I had probably 10 people refer me to Hiscox. The first 2 agents at Hiscox were happy to sell me "property management" insurance even after I explained to them explicitly what I did (short term rentals only). It wasn't until the 3rd agent finalizing things that they said the policy does not cover STR, and that they do have a policy that covers STR.

Ultimately your best bet is going to be to find a local company.  Most of the national ones won't do it.  Someone in the same zip code as your property.  Those still exist.  Obviously this will be a pain if you operate in multiple markets, but it is what it is.

There are quite a few of those $1.2M - $1.5M 9br lakeview properties for sale in STR for sale groups with empty calendars and investors trying to get out because they're not hitting anywhere near the 150k-200k they were promised.

Quote from @Nancy Bachety:

Amelia Island - amazing returns for our one BR condo ocean view, ocean front, on the ocean. It's a STR -driven condo.

 When did you buy it?