All Forum Posts by: Ryan Moyer

This is less and issue of a husband/wife needing extra space from each other and more having or losing the ability to let the kids or another couple have the other room.

I am sympathetic to your plight, as I understand it can really hurt to build a reliance on something and then have that taken away.

However, I don't really see a way out of this.  It sounds like, in an absolutely best case scenario, you're trying to violate the spirit of the law on a technicality.

It seems pretty obvious that the spirit of the law here is that they don't want people operating commercial hospitality businesses in residential neighborhoods, but want to find a balance where they can still allow actual residents to rent out a room or their space on occasion when on vacation, etc. With 90% occupancy, it's pretty clear that you're running an STR business in practice. Whether you sleep in another home you own or your car is really immaterial to that, other than creating a technicality by which you're hoping to be able to claim the home as a primary residence so you can run a business in a non-commercially zoned district.

Even if you are able to prove the technicality and get by on it for a renewal, that won't be a long-term solution as they'll just update the law to more clearly define these limits which they probably previously assumed to be rather obvious. It's unfortunately, but it will be this way everywhere eventually. If you're renting out a property 90% of the time that is a business. The same as a steel mill or a hotel or a car wash. It's taken municipalities a while to catch up since "STR" used to mean renting out your couch occasionally, but eventually all of these STR businesses will be required to be in commercial/tourist zones the same way every other business has to be.

UPDATE:  Well, interesting timing, as there was just a big win in Austin in ruling that STRs couldn't be restricted to require owner-occupied, so maybe there is hope.

I wish I had an answer.  There are tons of STRs out there with these things so there must be someone out there willing to underwrite it.  Heck we were just looking at staying at a place in Texas that had 2 full size waterslides (like the kind you'd find at an actual water park).

I hope you can find someone.  Certainly preferable to just demo'ing all the fun stuff!

Evolve isn't really a property manager.  They're more of a booking agent (and a poor one at that).  They handle the listings, getting the bookings, etc.  That still leaves you to take care of the maintenance, the guest communication, the cleanings, the 2am clogged toilets, etc.

If you're worried about being afar, Evolve only handles the very easiest part about being afar.

Realistically though, all of it is completely doable remotely.  The vast majority of people here manage their properties remotely.  Heck, it was so doable to manage my own that I started a property management company in a city 2000 miles away from where I live.

The tricky thing about it is that "property manager" is not an official term for STR. It's just what most of us call it. But in the actual bylaws in many states, STR hosts are not considered "property managers".

It varies state by state of course, but in many cases people see the part in the law where "property management" requires a broker's license, but don't look at the part where stays under X number of average days are not considered "property management".

Florida is a big one I see people get confused on all the time. If the average stay is under 30 days it is considered "public lodging". If it's over that then it's considered "property management". "Property management" requires a broker's license, while "public lodging" requires a hotel license. Many people end up thinking STR property management in Florida requires a broker's license because conversationally we call them "property managers". But legally they're not property managers, they're "public lodging".

Great job!  Will be interested to hear how it rents, but I'm guessing it's going to do great.

I did a HELOC on an investment property with TD Bank, but that was probably 8 months ago so not sure if they're still offering it. It was right around the time that Penfed stopped offering theirs.

They were absolutely horrible to work with, but it eventually got done.

I'm having some trouble with the math here.  How does "at least break even, maybe make up to 2-3k profit monthly in some months" on 7 homes equal out to 500k in annual profit?

Other than that, I don't see any issue with swapping equity from a boring home to a lakefront one if the interest rate isn't going to notably impact your returns.  The lakefront properties will almost certainly appreciate better over the long term.

Isn't Rodanthe the most scary spot of all?  There are 5br beach homes available there for outrageously low prices like $600k-$800k because in 5 years they'll probably no longer exist, swallowed by the sea.

Disney has always been at the forefront of inclusion, diversity, hope.  That is essentially their brand.  It's not anything new.  The people complaining about it now are the same type that complained about Disney movies with girls as the lead 50 years ago.  They just have a louder megaphone now, with social media rather than the Thanksgiving dinner table.

But that group has always existed, and they've never been Disney's target demographic.  They weren't going to Disney anyway.

Disney is an area that blew up during post-covid revenge travel, and has settled back some as that temporary travel trend recedes.  Disney tourism is down basically the same amount as tourism for the entire state of Florida.  The areas that blew up the most out of Covid are the ones seeing the largest pullbacks now.  It's not two posts down from this one that this same exact thread exists about the pullback in travel in the Smoky Mountains.  

It's no different in Disney or the Smokies or the Emerald Coast or Gulf Shores a dozen other markets that were very strong coming out of Covid.  Temporary travel boom led to huge increases in supply, and as that temporary boom normalizes we're left with top/standout properties that still perform very well, and average homes lost in the shuffle of huge supply alongside normalizing demand.  It's the most basic principle of supply and demand.

Being in this business requires sorting through a lot of fluff.  I'm sorry, but this is fluff.  Here on the ground, the only actual feedback or cancelations we've gotten are actually the opposite with some bookings being lost to Hispanic travelers that are afraid of the governor's immigration policies (actual guest message), but even those I'm sure are barely a rounding error and mostly fluff in the grand scheme of things.

So you have a bunch of markets acting basically exactly the same.  Smokies, Disney, Miami, Gulf Shores, etc.  But one of them happens to not align with people politically so they point at that one and say "See, I told you so!  It's because they don't agree with my politics!".  People just can't help themselves.  But it's fluff.  If you're worried about Disney itself I wouldn't be.  When people get tired of the stuff they have they'll throw another $5 billion at something new.  Visitors are down a bit from peak revenge travel, but still way up overall. The wait for 7 dwarves mine train right now is 120 minutes and the extra cost lightning lanes are sold out for the day. 

They'll eventually have to give back some of the price increases they jacked up 100% during overwhelming covid demand, and things will level out.  Which will probably start after the next earnings report.

So shed no tears for Disney, they'll be fine. The bigger concern is the 40,000 vacation rental properties there alongside the hundreds of massive hotels. If you want to do STR here you've gotta be prepared to stand out. There is just too much supply to be average here, which some people were able to skate by on during the post-covid travel explosion in the area. But ask the person buying an average 3br home in Destin with no pool for $1M or an average 3br forested cherry cabin in Gatlinburg with no view for $800k right now how they're doing and they'll say the same. And last I checked, neither the ocean nor the mountains and streams of Tennessee implied any stance about anything.

Just my $0.02, as someone hosting and elbow deep in this market every day.  Take it for what it's worth, and at the end of the day make your own decisions.  Because the biggest mistake anyone makes in investing is listening to people like me or any of the rest of us on the internet too closely.