Skip to content
×
Pro Members Get
Full Access!
Get off the sidelines and take action in real estate investing with BiggerPockets Pro. Our comprehensive suite of tools and resources minimize mistakes, support informed decisions, and propel you to success.
Advanced networking features
Market and Deal Finder tools
Property analysis calculators
Landlord Command Center
ANNUAL Save 16%
$32.50 /mo
$390 billed annualy
MONTHLY
$39 /mo
billed monthly
7 day free trial. Cancel anytime

Let's keep in touch

Subscribe to our newsletter for timely insights and actionable tips on your real estate journey.

By signing up, you indicate that you agree to the BiggerPockets Terms & Conditions
×
Try Pro Features for Free
Start your 7 day free trial. Pick markets, find deals, analyze and manage properties.
Followed Discussions Followed Categories Followed People Followed Locations
All Forum Categories
All Forum Categories
Followed Discussions
Followed Categories
Followed People
Followed Locations
Market News & Data
General Info
Real Estate Strategies
Landlording & Rental Properties
Real Estate Professionals
Financial, Tax, & Legal
Real Estate Classifieds
Reviews & Feedback

All Forum Posts by: James Hamling

James Hamling has started 15 posts and replied 4597 times.

Post: Advice for a motivated college student

  • Real Estate Broker
  • Minneapolis, MN
  • Posts 4,772
  • Votes 6,267

Hi @Colby Chaney, first off I appreciate your ambition but what really stands out that I want to highlight and applaud is how humble you are, recognizing what you don't know and tempering assumptions as just that, assumptions. That common sense is all too uncommon nowadays. 

Now I'm going to challenge your entire thesis, bear with me here. 

Real Estate is a very big industry, with that the most common affliction that plagues people is "Shiny Object Syndrome". This has been the ruin of many. 

Your path, and end-goal, don't make sense to me. 

I challenge you to look at it all in reverse order, yes, reverse engineer it. 

If your end goal is to be an investor, doing BRRRR, ask yourself what resources, skills and operations will you need if your doing that.

Your going to need deal flow. But not any old deal flow right, your going to need deal flow that best fit's for BRRRR. Ok, what are common ingredients for that? That it needs reno, or holds improvement potential. And what is the best types, outdated, long deferred maintenance, not major structural repair kind of stuff.

Ok, so what kind of "deals" best fit this mold? Hands down it's estate deals/properties. 

Now we ask our confirmation statement, is estate deals a viable segment, is there regular volume? Well, as I like to joke, people are dying to work with me, and yes, death is a regularized thing with no prospects of changing, people die, people with properties die, yes it is viable as a segment. 

See how we reverse engineered that? 

You'll find Property Management fit's nowhere into things, and thus it's a "Shiny Object". Starting a Property Management company will serve to distract you from your end-goal. Not to mention it's a declining business, soon to be eviscerated by ai. 

The next main component of your end goal is the resources to do a BRRR, as in the remodeling work. Now one can do that via networking with GC's but if were going Full-Monty to that dream reverse engineering would say start a GC business NOT a PM business.

For your stated end-goal, the path is clear to me; 

- Get licensed in real estate and focus as an agent with a niche of Estate & Probate. Sprinkle in the Reno-4-Resale and Sell-as-is. And a laser focus as a Listing Agent. That achieves deal flow. 

- Get the applicable licenses and knowledge to be a GC, and start a GC business NOT a PM business. Focus with that business on the niche of renovation, namely cosmetic renovation, and ignore all the "Shiny Objects" that could distract you there like new-con work and what not. 

Put these 2 together and you've got a hell of a winning recipe. 

This correct system creates feed back loops for your desired end-goal. As the reno GC buy opportunities will come out of it, as will client potentials. On the agent side reno opportunities will come out of it. And with the GC aspect for reno, it lends opportunity to turn your competing R.E. agents into clients for reno. 

This whole feed back loop aspect helps build network. And network = $$$$. 

Notice how a PM company does not fit into this anywhere? Again, it's a "shiny object". It will suck time and resources from the things that matter most. 

If you do some research into the most successful people you will find a common thread that they say NO to most things. They get very focused on a most limited # of things that are most straight line for end goals. 

Let that which does not matter, truly not matter. 

I get swamped by ideas and suggestions all the time of things I "could" be doing. Yeah, I know, I "could" this that or the other, and sure it would make some $, but I don't care. I don't care because it does not serve the central end-goal focus in an impactful way. 

I focus on my 1-3 things. What is the 1-3 things of highest most impactful importance to move the needle, and I take on those. Everything else, I let fall to the sides. 

It's really that 20% of things that holds 80% of impact.

How to identify, reverse engineer. 

Quote from @Mark Cruse:
Quote from @Nicholas L.:

@Remington Lyman

have had the same thought, but i know it's tough to police AI generated posts...

saw a thread the other day where every single response to the OP was very obviously AI.

i'm still here and i'm still not using AI

How is AI being used here? There are AI bots that respond the questions here? People are cutting and pasting to get answers from Chat gpt? 

If so, this is what's driving the quality of topics down? How does that all work together? 

For me, it's just hard finding stuff to even care about replying to. I gave my reasoning behind it.  Also, the quality of the OPs seems either fake, or something is way off. I find myself have zero desire to respond to them. 


I don't want to give too much detail on it Mark because I don't want to feed the problem via inspiring others in the how-to aspects of it all, but no it's way WAY more then just cut-n-past from chatGPT. 

If do some YT surfing on N8N setups one can do for automation, that should open the rabbit hole for you. 

If I really wanted to, right now today I could have an ai that monitors BP for the kind of posts, posters and replies I'd want to target, read through not only the post but all replies, get a feel for it all, craft a reply that engages in the flow of things how I'd like it to, and does it in a way to most sound like me via using an ai trained in my tone, manners etc.. 

Yeah, no, the days of cut-n-past ai use is actually now considered "old old stuff". That's how fast ai is evolving. 

Quote from @Patrick Roberts:
Quote from @James Hamling:
Quote from @Patrick Roberts:
Quote from @James Hamling:

The best part of this discussion, is finding out how not alone I am. I have been experiencing and thinking these things but was unsure if it was just my own perception of things. 

I had a solution idea. 

I really thought this through and I truly think it's the only legit, enduring solution that threads the needle of best results for all on BP, and for BP Platform profitability (if it don't make $, it won't make sense for ownership and thus, it won't happen, right). 

Post's can only be created by paid membership holders. Be it biz or personal, but paid not free accounts. 

And free accounts get a daily reply limit. 

There is a trend, free accounts making the same repetative basic nusance post over n over which means (a) there not contributing good engaging new content via doing such, and, (b) there not searching the forums, going through existing content because if they did they would have found the previous 10,427 posts asking what there asking. 

This also helps prevent from account spamming. 

Next is throttle a daily limit for paid account to create posts, based upon a persons votes. An ascending tiered model where at certain benchmarks, ability to do more is awarded. 

Look, simplest way to safeguard for quality content is to allow those voted most quality to post most freely, and that to post more it has to be earned via quality posts & replies. 

Ideally, this also helps the ai thing because ai spamming won't get the votes and thus, daily post creation will be throttled to a level that hopefully makes the venture not worth it to even try. 

My observation is the best content is consistently put out by various paid memberships, and the worst most spammy ai stuff is by free or low vote accounts. 

What do you think @Moderators

 @James Hamling I like the idea of a barrier to entry, but I have never been a fan of that barrier being money. Unless the cost is unreasonably high, I think most of the people here exclusively for self-promotion will likely pay the fee regardless, which will incentivize BP to bring in more of them. I also know that I anytime I look at joining a community, meetup group, forum, etc, and see a required monthly fee or subscription fee, I usually decline. There are so many gurus and shamans trying to monetize this stuff through paid mentorships/groups/communities etc that I instantly assume that a required fee = get-rich-quick marketing scheme from some guru preying on people who have a mindset of "I want passive income so I can retire this afternoon."

I would prefer to see some kind of verification option that gives a visible marker on an account, such as a badge, that shows that the account holder has been vetted to not be a bot or a clown. The process for this could be an interview via either a video chat or in-person with one of the forum moderators/managers to determine whether the interviewee is A) here for the right reasons, and B) whether they will agree to the rules, with one such rule being a pledge not to use AI to generate posts or responses. If they are found to have violated the pledge, then they are unethical and should be shunned or marked as such with a different type of badge, like "Interact with Caution".

I see major changes coming soon to a lot of social media and communication modalities because of this kind of stuff. I get blown up every day with AI/bot cold calls, cold texts, and cold emails, and I'm religious about reporting these as junk to the various carriers and email providers. I cant stand being cold-called, texted, etc by people trying to sell me trash, which is anything I havent asked for. Im in a business where I have to answer my phone, and if you immediately start pitching me as soon as I say Hi, youre getting cussed out. It's out of control.


Yeah, I totally get-it and myself am not the biggest fan of a barrier to entry but it's the only mechanism I could come up with that will actually work. 

Keep in mind free accounts could still make post replies, there just throttled as to how many per day until meet level thresholds unlocking ability to do more and more per day. 

And think, it could start really low, like 1 up vote, then 10, then 250, 50, 100 etc etc.. 

I thought if it like the way app based games are made today, everything is achievement based for access to "next level". 

It's also a system the self-promotes those newer users to use the various features, like look through the expansive library of older posts, vs just create a new post for every/any question. The current system kind of rewards impulsive "lazy" posting 4-answers vs engaging with platform. Because it's way easier to just post something vs look it up, or use the "Find A ___" tool. 

I don't see that talk with a BP rep for account setup working at all. We have to keep in mind BP is a tech company, and that means a focus on lean staffing. To do that would require staffing an expansive call center, not to mention the added cost of such. 

I'm not saying it's a bad idea in theory, I am just trying to view it as a realist, thinking through the motives BP needs and expects, as a business, for the action to make sense. For it to make sense to C-Suite, it's gotta make $$$$. 

ai is getting scarry good at head spinning speed. A captcha is not gonna cut it, ai will be able to make that hurdle. A throttle mechanism and a fee mechanism seems best way to dissuade.  And good moderation which then falls onto all of us, not just the Mod's alone. 


 Might just be time to build a new forum and migrate. This feels like when a local small business grows into a corporate franchise - it permanently evolves into something different


Wow, yeah, that analogy hit's close to home.... 

History would say your spot-on, unless there is an ever so rare "Jobs comes back" type event. 

Quote from @Jonathan Greene:
Quote from @Alexandra Hughes Pailet:
Quote from @Jonathan Greene:

There is no way to fix it. This has been a runaway train for years.

I was on a call with many of the hosts and the new CEO and his team. The new CEO has barely invested in real estate. This is a tech company, it's not a real estate investing portal anymore. He was saying that their goal was to use AI to create more connectivity. What?

AI is what is dragging this site down every day.

If they wanted more connectivity, BP would partner with local meetups in every city to co-sponsor the IN-PERSON meetups and help make it more collaborative.

None of us needs to be sitting on the computer in forums anymore. We need to talk to people in real life. New investors need to connect with people who are making deals in their market.

Thanks for dragging me back to the forums to spew @Remington Lyman.

Siri, is this appropriate enough for the site?

You know I'm here for the IRL events @Jonathan Greene 🥳 Nothing beats those in-person connections! I'll miss you at BPCON this year, but I'd love to hear more about your regional event ideas as we plan for the future. 


Oh, I know you are! The roadshow thing that Henry and Dave did was amazing. I think the issue is that the company and the people who have made the company what it is are at direct odds in terms of what to do and what the enjoyment factor is.

To sell, they need a bigger database. Users = potential revenue for someone else who buys the company. But BiggerPockets was built on the forums, literally. The interaction of the forms made the podcast viable and accessible. Now the podcast is a revenue stream with all the ads for the company, but no one I know still listens. I listen to On the Market more than the big show and it's not because of Dave. Dave is the best. There are too many different shows and too many episodes and they are there to feed advertising money, but no human being could possibly listen to all of the episodes and have a life. Rookie, Money, big show, On the Market, it's a lot.

You and Katie Miller and the team behind the scenes turn out a great event. The person-to-person connection is what everyone needs now. Less screens (except better forums) and more learning from the person across from you and not a guru on TikTok who has done 1 flip, made $3,145, and now is selling a course on how not to do what he did.

Find the best meetups, give a 2-3 month lead, and it would bring back the good stuff in a lot of areas. I get 1-2 new people at my meetups a month who find it in the events section on BP, but the events section is literally for cave people. There are 2 towns in New Jersey to tag, 2, and if you don't tag one no one will see it if they search geographically.

1,000%, more has not been better.

I argue NFL vs MLB. 

Each has about 30 teams, yet NLF teams play 17 games vs MLB's 162. And the NFL out earns, by nearly DOUBLE, the MLB! 

I'd urge the BP decision makers to meditate on this point. More does not inherently = better. Better = better. 

Post: Your Loan Has A Due On Sale Clause

  • Real Estate Broker
  • Minneapolis, MN
  • Posts 4,772
  • Votes 6,267
Quote from @Ken M.:
Quote from @James Hamling:
Quote from @Shiloh Lundahl:

@James Hamling I'll answer your question with the phrase "It depends." 
I thought I had read all of the posts connected to this thread, and I saw that you reference the Arizona tenant landlord act, which is 50 pages. I didn't notice that you had reference anything specific. 

Here's a scenario and you tell me your thoughts.

let's say somebody is not able to qualify for a mortgage and they are interested in a lease with the option to buy. So they go into contract as a lease with the option to buy. They have three years to buy the subject property, and they've been living in it and enjoying the property during that time. They know that the air conditioner is not brand new and will likely only last a couple more years after they purchased the property and then it will need to be replaced. Because they would like to buy the house and they would like to have a brand new air conditioner, they would like to have the owner spend $8000 to put in a brand new air conditioner before they exercise the option. so they do a little sabotage secretly to make it so the air conditioner stops working in order for the owner to replace the air conditioner before they exercise the option.

How do you think this situation should be handled?


Notice the actions and intentions in your example Shiloh. A tenant with option to buy, intentionally sabotaging the a/c, to scam the situation to get a new a/c free of charge immediately before executing on the purchase option. 

Given that at that time they are a tenant, under a lease, I'd say follow the laws and regulations surrounding leases and tenants. If it were me, yup, I'd assess the cost to them as they intentionally damaged it. This is all standard landlord stuff, right. 

Now it could work out that the tenants fight it, and as landlord your unable to prove it all, and would loose in court so as landlord get stiffed for that bill. It sucks, I dislike it, but it is the reality of this industry and stuff like that happens sometimes. 

You really jumped down my throat previously, and it wasn't warranted in my opinion. Your side stepping the central fact that Kens scheme is a blatant violation of the laws and regulations. It's not opinion, it's legal fact, a tenant can not sign away their tenants rights. And to concoct a scheme, with the intent to do the actions Ken detailed, is not legal. 

There is no "it depends", tenants can not sign away tenants rights. To formulate a transaction with the intent to do the things Ken says he makes them with intention for, again, not legal. 

.
Your comment "A tenant with option to buy, intentionally sabotaging the a/c, to scam the situation to get a new a/c free of charge immediately before executing on the purchase option."

No one said that.

Now, you're making things up "from whole cloth", out of thin air, (meaning: something that is completely fictitious, fabricated, or not based on reality)
 

Yet AGAIN, MORE LIES FROM KEN! 

Shiloh asked me, on a scenario, and I quote: "....Because they would like to buy the house and they would like to have a brand new air conditioner, they would like to have the owner spend $8000 to put in a brand new air conditioner before they exercise the option. so they do a little sabotage secretly to make it so the air conditioner stops working in order for the owner to replace the air conditioner before they exercise the option."

Post: Your Loan Has A Due On Sale Clause

  • Real Estate Broker
  • Minneapolis, MN
  • Posts 4,772
  • Votes 6,267
Quote from @Shiloh Lundahl:

@James Hamling I'll answer your question with the phrase "It depends." 
I thought I had read all of the posts connected to this thread, and I saw that you reference the Arizona tenant landlord act, which is 50 pages. I didn't notice that you had reference anything specific. 

Here's a scenario and you tell me your thoughts.

let's say somebody is not able to qualify for a mortgage and they are interested in a lease with the option to buy. So they go into contract as a lease with the option to buy. They have three years to buy the subject property, and they've been living in it and enjoying the property during that time. They know that the air conditioner is not brand new and will likely only last a couple more years after they purchased the property and then it will need to be replaced. Because they would like to buy the house and they would like to have a brand new air conditioner, they would like to have the owner spend $8000 to put in a brand new air conditioner before they exercise the option. so they do a little sabotage secretly to make it so the air conditioner stops working in order for the owner to replace the air conditioner before they exercise the option.

How do you think this situation should be handled?


As an additional note to my reply on this, it's situations just like this why I prefer Contract For Deed over Lease With Option. 

C4D that situation wouldn't happen as it's set who covers what from start, and without a lease all the tenant stuff doesn't come into play for such a possible scam by tenant/buyers. 

I know C4D regulations vary a fair bit state to state, heck MN just did some huge changes, but in general when selling I much prefer that transaction method or something most like it for those simplicity reasons. 

When on buy side, I would rather have purchase option or LWO. 

Because I want all the upside potentials and the least downside potentials. I'd happily buy all the properties I can get my hand's on under LWO and sublet rights that have a spread vs any other purchase method, heck yeah. 

Post: Your Loan Has A Due On Sale Clause

  • Real Estate Broker
  • Minneapolis, MN
  • Posts 4,772
  • Votes 6,267
Quote from @Shiloh Lundahl:

@James Hamling I'll answer your question with the phrase "It depends." 
I thought I had read all of the posts connected to this thread, and I saw that you reference the Arizona tenant landlord act, which is 50 pages. I didn't notice that you had reference anything specific. 

Here's a scenario and you tell me your thoughts.

let's say somebody is not able to qualify for a mortgage and they are interested in a lease with the option to buy. So they go into contract as a lease with the option to buy. They have three years to buy the subject property, and they've been living in it and enjoying the property during that time. They know that the air conditioner is not brand new and will likely only last a couple more years after they purchased the property and then it will need to be replaced. Because they would like to buy the house and they would like to have a brand new air conditioner, they would like to have the owner spend $8000 to put in a brand new air conditioner before they exercise the option. so they do a little sabotage secretly to make it so the air conditioner stops working in order for the owner to replace the air conditioner before they exercise the option.

How do you think this situation should be handled?


Notice the actions and intentions in your example Shiloh. A tenant with option to buy, intentionally sabotaging the a/c, to scam the situation to get a new a/c free of charge immediately before executing on the purchase option. 

Given that at that time they are a tenant, under a lease, I'd say follow the laws and regulations surrounding leases and tenants. If it were me, yup, I'd assess the cost to them as they intentionally damaged it. This is all standard landlord stuff, right. 

Now it could work out that the tenants fight it, and as landlord your unable to prove it all, and would loose in court so as landlord get stiffed for that bill. It sucks, I dislike it, but it is the reality of this industry and stuff like that happens sometimes. 

You really jumped down my throat previously, and it wasn't warranted in my opinion. Your side stepping the central fact that Kens scheme is a blatant violation of the laws and regulations. It's not opinion, it's legal fact, a tenant can not sign away their tenants rights. And to concoct a scheme, with the intent to do the actions Ken detailed, is not legal. 

There is no "it depends", tenants can not sign away tenants rights. To formulate a transaction with the intent to do the things Ken says he makes them with intention for, again, not legal. 

Post: Your Loan Has A Due On Sale Clause

  • Real Estate Broker
  • Minneapolis, MN
  • Posts 4,772
  • Votes 6,267
Quote from @Shiloh Lundahl:

@James Hamling I don't understand why you argue with people about what you think they should or shouldn't be able to do. Especially if they have been doing it for years. 

You seem to demonize the lease option strategy while it is a legitimate strategy since probably before you were born. Yet it appears as though you you assert to know all the legalities of it in multiple states. 

I have done somewhere between 80 and 100 lease options across 2 states. And I have helped dozens of people become home owners (probably around 30 - 40) that have exercised their options. It looks like @Ken M. has a higher success rate than me. And I think one of the main reasons is because he charges a higher option fee than me. Most of my option fees are between $3000 and $5000 depending on the property. I also usually charge $200 above market rent and then I give the tenant a $100 discount to the tenant buyer to take care of any issues that come up with the property during the 3-year option period. I take care of any serious issues that I think may break within a three year period of time before doing the lease option. if something major does come up, and they're not in a position to take care of it, then I may take care of it and then I just add the cost to the option strike price.

whenever I've had people bring in a larger option fee then I will lower the option price each year. For example, let's say the property values at $300,000 today and let's say that I'm selling it on a lease with the option to buy for $330,000 within a three year period of time. Let's say they bring in $30,000 as an option fee. I would then fix the option price at $300,000 for the next year and then I would lower the strike price to $295,000 during the second year and $290,000 during the third year. Every time except for once when someone has put an option fee over $20,000 they have exercise the option.

The option document and the lease document are separate documents. Everything is explained to them, and they initial next to paragraphs showing that they understand the paragraph. 

This has been shown to be a fantastic strategy for many people that are not able to get a loan to purchase a home today. in fact, I purchased my own home using the lease option strategy as the buyer. Most of the time I use the lease option strategy as the seller. 

You just need to be an ethical Investor. If you're not an ethical Investor, then you can misuse this strategy just as you can misuse almost any other real estate strategy. 


You need to go back through and read things from the beginning, not just Kens lies and distortion of things. 

It's not opinion, I never threw out opinion, I was speaking from AZ laws and I linked the laws, several times. Ken just kept responding with Gaslighting. 

And here is the rub. 

Ken detailed a scheme where he sells a Lease with Option. 100% legal and legit, right. But Ken said he does this to then REFUSE any and all Landlord responsibilities during the lease. And if/when that tenant/buyer want's him, the Landlord, to do ANY of the Landlord responsibilities DURING THE LEASE, he does it AT THE COST OF tenant/buyer loosing their entire purchase option deposit and the purchase option. 

Ken goes on to infer that this is legit, which it is NOT. You know it's not legit Shiloh. 

To Create a lease with someone, and sell them a purchase option, with the INTENT to NOT adhere to the Landlord/Tenant regulations and responsibilities, AND WITH the intent that if/when tenant requests landlord to perform on Landlord responsibilities, tenant/buyer suffer the loss of their Purchase Option being cancelled AND the total loss of their $40,000.00. 

I made it very simple, and clear. It is a Lease WITH Option, 2 seperate instruments when a person does one of these. Which you get Shiloh, I know you do as you spoke to it here. Ken say's NO, that he shazams it into 1 instrument because he put's it on the same paper, and that he can supersede the laws of AZ and have a tenant sign away their tenants rights and landlord responsibilities. 

There is no opinion needed int his regard, AZ law is very clear on this, tenants can not sign away their tenant rights, that any agreement where they do is not enforceable. It's clear cut, I linked the regulations on this. 

Now keep in mind, Ken all but bragged he does these thing WITH THE INTENT to create this situation, where later when xyz breaks, and tenant puts in a service request, that Ken then tells em sure hell do it, BUT there gonna loose all the $ and the Purchase Option. 

THAT intent right there, that brings the 1 thing I DID say, and clarify, is my OPINION that it looks a whole-lot like Theft by Swindle, AZ and TX have a different name for this but it's the same thing and has similar regulations around it. 

Now you tell me Shiloh, how legit does Kens scheme look? 

Also note I am "the" Contract For Deed guy in MN, I have done more of these than most brokerages, I am very PRO terms transactions, I do tons of them, even complex sandwich ones. My experience is how I can readily identify how NOT legal what Ken is promoting is. 

And no, Ken does NOT have any volume of these. Ken is a Charlatan, definitively, look up the word. 

Ken is pretending at a knowledge and experience he does not possess, promoting a scheme that is not legal, and using gaslighting in a desperate action to obfuscate his scheme being uncovered as such, because Kens focus is getting persons on BP to pay him as a Guru for his "training". 

When presented with the facts, Kens Gaslighted. Ken did not argue on the facts, he just pretended they don't exist unless get's packaged how he wants. Which the moment anyone does, Ken moves the goal post to a next level of his required packaging, and again and again and again. Classical narcissist gaslighting. 

Lease with Option is 100% fine and legal, when a person follows the rules and regulations and does not twist and extort them for other purposes as Kens scheme does. 

Quote from @Patrick Roberts:
Quote from @James Hamling:

The best part of this discussion, is finding out how not alone I am. I have been experiencing and thinking these things but was unsure if it was just my own perception of things. 

I had a solution idea. 

I really thought this through and I truly think it's the only legit, enduring solution that threads the needle of best results for all on BP, and for BP Platform profitability (if it don't make $, it won't make sense for ownership and thus, it won't happen, right). 

Post's can only be created by paid membership holders. Be it biz or personal, but paid not free accounts. 

And free accounts get a daily reply limit. 

There is a trend, free accounts making the same repetative basic nusance post over n over which means (a) there not contributing good engaging new content via doing such, and, (b) there not searching the forums, going through existing content because if they did they would have found the previous 10,427 posts asking what there asking. 

This also helps prevent from account spamming. 

Next is throttle a daily limit for paid account to create posts, based upon a persons votes. An ascending tiered model where at certain benchmarks, ability to do more is awarded. 

Look, simplest way to safeguard for quality content is to allow those voted most quality to post most freely, and that to post more it has to be earned via quality posts & replies. 

Ideally, this also helps the ai thing because ai spamming won't get the votes and thus, daily post creation will be throttled to a level that hopefully makes the venture not worth it to even try. 

My observation is the best content is consistently put out by various paid memberships, and the worst most spammy ai stuff is by free or low vote accounts. 

What do you think @Moderators

 @James Hamling I like the idea of a barrier to entry, but I have never been a fan of that barrier being money. Unless the cost is unreasonably high, I think most of the people here exclusively for self-promotion will likely pay the fee regardless, which will incentivize BP to bring in more of them. I also know that I anytime I look at joining a community, meetup group, forum, etc, and see a required monthly fee or subscription fee, I usually decline. There are so many gurus and shamans trying to monetize this stuff through paid mentorships/groups/communities etc that I instantly assume that a required fee = get-rich-quick marketing scheme from some guru preying on people who have a mindset of "I want passive income so I can retire this afternoon."

I would prefer to see some kind of verification option that gives a visible marker on an account, such as a badge, that shows that the account holder has been vetted to not be a bot or a clown. The process for this could be an interview via either a video chat or in-person with one of the forum moderators/managers to determine whether the interviewee is A) here for the right reasons, and B) whether they will agree to the rules, with one such rule being a pledge not to use AI to generate posts or responses. If they are found to have violated the pledge, then they are unethical and should be shunned or marked as such with a different type of badge, like "Interact with Caution".

I see major changes coming soon to a lot of social media and communication modalities because of this kind of stuff. I get blown up every day with AI/bot cold calls, cold texts, and cold emails, and I'm religious about reporting these as junk to the various carriers and email providers. I cant stand being cold-called, texted, etc by people trying to sell me trash, which is anything I havent asked for. Im in a business where I have to answer my phone, and if you immediately start pitching me as soon as I say Hi, youre getting cussed out. It's out of control.


Yeah, I totally get-it and myself am not the biggest fan of a barrier to entry but it's the only mechanism I could come up with that will actually work. 

Keep in mind free accounts could still make post replies, there just throttled as to how many per day until meet level thresholds unlocking ability to do more and more per day. 

And think, it could start really low, like 1 up vote, then 10, then 250, 50, 100 etc etc.. 

I thought if it like the way app based games are made today, everything is achievement based for access to "next level". 

It's also a system the self-promotes those newer users to use the various features, like look through the expansive library of older posts, vs just create a new post for every/any question. The current system kind of rewards impulsive "lazy" posting 4-answers vs engaging with platform. Because it's way easier to just post something vs look it up, or use the "Find A ___" tool. 

I don't see that talk with a BP rep for account setup working at all. We have to keep in mind BP is a tech company, and that means a focus on lean staffing. To do that would require staffing an expansive call center, not to mention the added cost of such. 

I'm not saying it's a bad idea in theory, I am just trying to view it as a realist, thinking through the motives BP needs and expects, as a business, for the action to make sense. For it to make sense to C-Suite, it's gotta make $$$$. 

ai is getting scarry good at head spinning speed. A captcha is not gonna cut it, ai will be able to make that hurdle. A throttle mechanism and a fee mechanism seems best way to dissuade.  And good moderation which then falls onto all of us, not just the Mod's alone. 

The best part of this discussion, is finding out how not alone I am. I have been experiencing and thinking these things but was unsure if it was just my own perception of things. 

I had a solution idea. 

I really thought this through and I truly think it's the only legit, enduring solution that threads the needle of best results for all on BP, and for BP Platform profitability (if it don't make $, it won't make sense for ownership and thus, it won't happen, right). 

Post's can only be created by paid membership holders. Be it biz or personal, but paid not free accounts. 

And free accounts get a daily reply limit. 

There is a trend, free accounts making the same repetative basic nusance post over n over which means (a) there not contributing good engaging new content via doing such, and, (b) there not searching the forums, going through existing content because if they did they would have found the previous 10,427 posts asking what there asking. 

This also helps prevent from account spamming. 

Next is throttle a daily limit for paid account to create posts, based upon a persons votes. An ascending tiered model where at certain benchmarks, ability to do more is awarded. 

Look, simplest way to safeguard for quality content is to allow those voted most quality to post most freely, and that to post more it has to be earned via quality posts & replies. 

Ideally, this also helps the ai thing because ai spamming won't get the votes and thus, daily post creation will be throttled to a level that hopefully makes the venture not worth it to even try. 

My observation is the best content is consistently put out by various paid memberships, and the worst most spammy ai stuff is by free or low vote accounts. 

What do you think @Moderators

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10