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All Forum Posts by: Mitch Messer

Mitch Messer has started 73 posts and replied 2080 times.

Post: Private Lender Documents

Mitch MesserPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Playa del Carmen, México
  • Posts 2,227
  • Votes 1,775
Quote from @Pat Arneson:
Quote from @Mitch Messer:
Quote from @Pat Arneson:

I've read a few old posts regarding this topic and have those documents in order, but I still have the following questions regarding a private loan (from family) --

Loan Documents for Purchase -

1. We have the promissory note, personal guaranty, and deed of trust(title/escrow to handle) ready to go. Does the promissory note and personal guaranty go to title or should I execute these outside of escrow?

2. Does my lender need to provide escrow instructions or anything along those lines? Can he just wire the funds to escrow, I sign the deed of trust, and that's that? Or, do he need to send some type of escrow instructions that outline 1st position, will fund after all docs signed, etc?

Loan Documents for Selling

1. What will this same lender need to provide title and escrow when I sell the property? Is it just a payoff demand and wiring instructions?

Thanks! This forum has been extremely helpful.


Hey Pat, regarding your docs for buying:

1. The promissory note and personal guaranty are private documents that don't get recorded. That said, I would still recommend you have them executed at closing by your closing agent, along with the other docs. I also recommend you provide two sets for signature, so that both borrower and lender get signed originals.

2. Your lender just needs to wire adequate funds to close. If there are other liens to be recorded, you should have already agreed as to the lien position this lender will be in, and the closing agent should know it.

3. Also at closing: You should provide your lender with a lender's title insurance policy, separate from your owner's title insurance policy. I recommend you as the borrower pay for this.

4. Also at closing: You should provide proof that the lender is named as such on a valid hazard insurance policy effective at least on the day of closing.

Regarding the closing to sell or refi, yes, your lender will just need to provide a payoff letter with wiring instructions to the closing agent. Post closing, they'll need to sign a cancellation of mortgage document or equivalent.

Thanks Mitch, this is great information! 

RE: Post Closing. How will the deed of reconveyance/cancellation of mortgage work? I figured that would need to be a part of the closing to remove that deed of trust prior to new ownership. Thanks again!

Technically, it's the responsibility of the lender to cancel the mortgage.

However, as private lenders we typically request that the closing agent draft the cancellation document and send it after the closing is completed.

The lender can then execute (sign, notarize & have witnessed) the cancellation doc and then return the original to the closing agent for recordation.

Post: Private Lender Documents

Mitch MesserPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Playa del Carmen, México
  • Posts 2,227
  • Votes 1,775
Quote from @Pat Arneson:

I've read a few old posts regarding this topic and have those documents in order, but I still have the following questions regarding a private loan (from family) --

Loan Documents for Purchase -

1. We have the promissory note, personal guaranty, and deed of trust(title/escrow to handle) ready to go. Does the promissory note and personal guaranty go to title or should I execute these outside of escrow?

2.  Does my lender need to provide escrow instructions or anything along those lines? Can he just wire the funds to escrow, I sign the deed of trust, and that's that? Or, do he need to send some type of escrow instructions that outline 1st position, will fund after all docs signed, etc?

Loan Documents for Selling

1. What will this same lender need to provide title and escrow when I sell the property? Is it just a payoff demand and wiring instructions?

Thanks! This forum has been extremely helpful.


Hey Pat, regarding your docs for buying: 

1. The promissory note and personal guaranty are private documents that don't get recorded. That said, I would still recommend you have them executed at closing by your closing agent, along with the other docs. I also recommend you provide two sets for signature, so that both borrower and lender get signed originals.

2. Your lender just needs to wire adequate funds to close. If there are other liens to be recorded, you should have already agreed as to the lien position this lender will be in, and the closing agent should know it.

3. Also at closing: You should provide your lender with a lender's title insurance policy, separate from your owner's title insurance policy. I recommend you as the borrower pay for this.

4. Also at closing: You should provide proof that the lender is named as such on a valid hazard insurance policy effective at least on the day of closing.

Regarding the closing to sell or refi, yes, your lender will just need to provide a payoff letter with wiring instructions to the closing agent. Post closing, they'll need to sign a cancellation of mortgage document or equivalent.

Post: Tiny house lenders

Mitch MesserPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Playa del Carmen, México
  • Posts 2,227
  • Votes 1,775
Quote from @Karl Acorda:

I'm looking for lenders who financing tiny homes for investment purposes. These will be multiple units at a time and built together on the same parcel of land. Land is already purchased. Just need a lender to finance the homes. DSCR or conventional loan is preferred unless you have other options.


In which U.S. state will the homes be located?

Also, will these be considered true real estate, or personal property (like some mobile homes).

Lastly, will each home be owned fee-simple, or will they be part of a collective ownership, like a condo or a co-op? 

Post: NDA documents when looking for partners on a deal

Mitch MesserPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Playa del Carmen, México
  • Posts 2,227
  • Votes 1,775
Quote from @Laura Casner:
Quote from @Mitch Messer:
Quote from @Laura Casner:

Looking for advice on NDA's.  I have a deal and business plan that I need to source capital for. I need a large downpayment to close.  I'm concerned about a scenario where I show the property to a potential investor then that person with the cash to close circumnavigates me and approaches the seller with their own offer, swopping in and grabbing the property on their own.  Anyone have advice here? Does it make me look bad?  Does it turn off people from funding my deal?  Is it common?  Anyone have links to templates for something like this or a sample they would share?


If you already have the deal under contract, I'd recommend protecting yourself with an affidavit of agreement (AoA), rather than an NDA.

For one thing, the AoA gets recorded on public record and should therefore show up in a title search, preventing someone from swooping in and stealing your deal. The NDA is a private agreement and won't by itself stop a sale to another buyer.

I'm happy to share an example of our AoA. See my BP profile for the best way to reach me!

 I wasn't aware of an AoA - would love to check one out for the future. As @Arn Cenedella stated above - what concerns me most is that enforcing anything legal (in my experience) has not been worth the effort. If someone goes around my back and steals a deal, they still have the deal and now I have to go through the headache of enforcing the piece of paper I have. It feels like a false sense of security. Interested in your thoughts.  

Yes, signing an NDA is pretty easy; enforcing one is not.


An affidavit of agreement (AoA) is notarized and recorded, and also cross-references the deed, so it should pop up during a title exam and halt the sale.

We've used AoA documents for years (decades?) to protect ourselves. And yes, we've seen them work first-hand to ensure we are notified (and paid!) when someone tries to cut us out of our own deal!

FYI, here's an example of an AoA (NOT one of mine) on public record in Dauphin County, PA:

https://deeds.dauphinc.org/OnCoreweb/showdetails.aspx?id=350... 

Post: Property Tax Appeals in Metro Atlanta

Mitch MesserPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Playa del Carmen, México
  • Posts 2,227
  • Votes 1,775
Quote from @Donovan Cobb:

@Mitch Messer

Would you please send me the info too? I would like to do this next year.

Thank you sir


Hey Donovan, I'm happy to share the company and contact info with you. You will need to reach out to me, though. (I can't DM here.)

My BP profile page explains how.

Post: What to do with this property

Mitch MesserPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Playa del Carmen, México
  • Posts 2,227
  • Votes 1,775
Quote from @Connor Thomas:

I recently bought my first BRRRR and am trying to figure out what I should do next as I feel like I am a bit in a bind. Part of it is a learning process and I have learned a lot for future deals. Another part may be me getting a little nervous. I was thinking the house would rent for 1200-1350 but it seems now the range is 1000-1200 with 1200 being the highest for the area so may be hard to get. I was estimating the ARV at 160-165k which I don't know what it will be for sure but I'm a little worried it might be less which throws a wrench in things as well.

I bought a two bedroom one bath house in Indy for 70k which was 10k under asking. Renovation is 46k and is being done now and roughly 4 weeks from being done. I purchased it with a HELOC so higher interest debt until I can cash out refi. Plus any miscellaneous payments such as interest, inspections, etc.

At this point I think I need to finish the renovations regardless. It’s looking like this will cash flow neg just with est mortgage payments plus insurance and taxes of $1100ish (after renovation), property management of $120.

The house is a simple two bed one bath with a garage and a fenced in backyard. The renovations are going to be higher end and the house is pretty simple with a detached garage but no closets in the house.

I feel like I wanted to really start growing my portfolio but feel like I may have jumped the gun. What recommendations might I consider? Let me know if you have any questions

 
Hey @Connor Thomas, you're learning the #1 lesson of real estate investing, which is to run your financials carefully in advance!

Don't panic: You're not the first in this bind, and you won't be the last!

Every investor ALIVE has a story like this, if they've been around for a bit. (Some of us have more than one...)

So here you are.

Your first step should be to get the facts and then reassess your options.

You'll need realistic and accurate estimates of your ARV, your remaining repair expense, market rent, and total projected holding costs.

If you run your numbers and you can still make this work as a rental, then great! Just be 💯 certain that you'll be able to refi that HELOC debt off when the time comes.

However...

At this stage in your investment career, I would URGE you not to sign up for negative cashflow in the hope that "the market" will save you. That's NOT a viable plan (for reference, see years 2007-2011).

If you can't hold it profitably, sell it fast and move on!

Then, before buying anything else, make a list of all the learnings you got from this experience, and then list the systems and policies you'll put in place to ensure you never do this again!

Good luck to you!

Post: Deed of Trust and Note for Private Lender?

Mitch MesserPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Playa del Carmen, México
  • Posts 2,227
  • Votes 1,775
Quote from @Pat Arneson:

I have an opportunity to raise capital with a private individual at a flat interest-only rate as a way to reduce interest charges and eliminate origination and service fees. I'm looking for ways I can "protect" this private lender. 

In theory, this is what I'm proposing -- I'll fund 20% and cover closing and rehab costs. Private lender will wire ~80% to my business bank account shortly before close. In essence, it is a cash offer. I am assuming I can write the offer as cash, so long as the private funding is guaranteed otherwise I may put my EMD at risk. For non-auction properties, I'm assuming the title company can draft the deed of trust and promissory note and record at close? After all, most lenders just use the standard Fannie Mae template... For auction properties, I'm assuming once I purchase a property I can draft and record the deed of trust following recordation of the conveyance?

Then, upon resale, does this private lender simply inform the title company of the payoff?

Is there anything I'm missing?

Thanks!


I don't understand: If you truly want to protect the PL, why not close with a title agent?

1. You'll want your private lender (PL) to have a lender's title insurance policy. Your current approach leaves your PL exposed to any title flaws that might arise.

2. You'll want your PL named as lender on the property insurance policy. Who's going to ensure that this policy is in place?

If it helps, put yourself in the position of the PL.

What happens if the PL wires the 80% to your business account and then you get hit by a bus? How would the PL ever get their money back?

What if you did buy a property at auction, and then before you recorded the deed, you got hit by a bus? How does the PL prove that a deed of trust ever existed?

Title companies and closing attorneys exist for this specific purpose.

Why not use them?

Post: Hello from the Midwest(Tulsa/Broken Arrow) and getting deeper into real estate.

Mitch MesserPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Playa del Carmen, México
  • Posts 2,227
  • Votes 1,775
Quote from @Vijay Nidumolu:

Glad to see lot of inputs on Tulsa Area. I was driving by last month and noticed lot of construction happening in Bixby area. I even saw new single family Rental community near bixby downtown. I guess that means, there is healthy demand for rents in the metroplex.
I am curious if there is a city or few Zip codes within Tulsa, Broken arrow, Bixby, Jenks and Owasso, that is preferred by prospective tenants ?  Also, it will be great to get feedback on relative risk from tornados and floods, for the above cities. Any thoughts are welcome.  

I'll bet my favorite Tulsa super-agent, @Tom O'Stasik, could answer your questions!

Post: Need money for renovation. Have two "no mortgage" properties. What are my options?

Mitch MesserPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Playa del Carmen, México
  • Posts 2,227
  • Votes 1,775
Quote from @Lauren Ruppert:

Okay, so I have a property that I want to renovate.  I'm going to need about 60k-70k.  I have two other properties with no mortgage that are cash flowing nicely.   At this time, what is my best option for getting the cash I need?  


Need more info.

Once you put $60-70K into renovating that property, how will you get those funds back out? How long will that take?

Post: Best way to put out an offer

Mitch MesserPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Playa del Carmen, México
  • Posts 2,227
  • Votes 1,775
Quote from @Angel Peng:

I found a quadplex for $390k. It has so much traffic and popularity just 2 hours of being placed on Zillow. This is my first investment property. I will be doing a conventional 20% down. I am willing to go as high as $480k for this place. How should I make this offer? Should I offer starting at asking price with an escalation clause of $3000 higher than the highest bidder until $480k? And I would require that they show the price of the 2nd highest bidder. 

Another offer would be that I start at $420k with the same escalation. 

Or should I just start at $430-450k to begin with. 

I am willing to go as high as $480k but obviously would like to avoid it if I could do it for much lower. 

Thank you all for your expertise. 


You're asking the wrong questions.

Your financial analysis of the opportunity should dictate how much you offer, and nothing else!

How do you know this property will even cash flow at the $390K asking?

Exactly why are you willing to "go as high as $480K for this place?"

Unfortunately, "traffic and popularity" don't translate well into cash flow and cash-on-cash return.

Don't get so caught up in the excitement of "doing" a deal that you miss actually "getting" a good deal.