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All Forum Posts by: Michael Kiley

Michael Kiley has started 13 posts and replied 173 times.

Post: The $30k rental club.......

Michael KileyPosted
  • Real Estate Agent
  • Cleveland, OH
  • Posts 184
  • Votes 253
Originally posted by @James Galla:
Originally posted by @Account Closed:

@James Galla ah the classic pro forma I’m holier than thou negative predictable reply.....yawn

 Haha ok. I don't think I worded it like that, but if I raised some doubts, that's good. You'll be more careful when looking.

But, if you're looking to be condescending, I'll suggest making it the $10k club - head right on over to South Akron, West Hill, or Sherbondy Hills in Akron, and just dump your $100k into 10 properties. You'll be rich in no time.

 Add East Cleveland to your list as well...properties so cheap they're giving em' away! Haha

For newer investors looking to get started, I would second the notion for caution. Cheap houses in areas that aren't the ghetto are few and far between and they need a lot of work to get the property cleaned up enough to attract and keep a good tenant that won't keep you up all night. Every week I'm approached by out of state investors who want a piece of the action. You have to know where to buy and you better be willing to work. Cleveland is still a blue collar town and when a true diamond in the rough hits the market, you will be competing against dozens of native Clevelander's with rolled up sleeves who know what it's like to work the trenches. That being said, it's done all the time. I know because I polished up a few of the diamonds and still own them. But do your homework. Know the areas. Use caution.

Post: Will You retire on Property alone?

Michael KileyPosted
  • Real Estate Agent
  • Cleveland, OH
  • Posts 184
  • Votes 253

I want 10 paid for SF houses that cashflow 800-900 each before I slow down. I'm currently looking to BRRRR houses in Cleveland that I can be all in at 60-70k with an ARV of about 100k and rent for 1000. Currently, I rehab my own houses with some help from my son. I enjoy the work and I'm teaching him the business. I manage all my own properties too. I have no plan to get into the stock market because with real estate I have the most control over my investment and I can use a reasonable amount of leverage to grow my portfolio quicker. My biggest challenge these days is trying to keep my income low to minimize taxes while trying to earn enough to qualify for the loans I want to get.

Post: What is the total tax percentage amount on Flips in NC?

Michael KileyPosted
  • Real Estate Agent
  • Cleveland, OH
  • Posts 184
  • Votes 253

@Mahmoud Y. Elhalawany

If its not too late, you might consider renting it out for a year and then selling it. By doing this, you would avoid the 15% self employment tax. Also, long term capital gains tax is typically much lower than your ordinary tax rate.

I use the BRRRR strategy when possible. Ideally you can always be selling the house you rehabbed in a prior year and renting the one you just finished.

Post: Whats The Best Book Youve Recently Read???

Michael KileyPosted
  • Real Estate Agent
  • Cleveland, OH
  • Posts 184
  • Votes 253

There's a good reason The Magic of Thinking Big by David Schwartz has sold more than 6 million copies. I listened to this on Audible and thought the book and narrator were great!

Post: How to invest in buy and hold if a crash is coming?

Michael KileyPosted
  • Real Estate Agent
  • Cleveland, OH
  • Posts 184
  • Votes 253
Originally posted by @Llewelyn A.:

Here is what I can recall from my experiences on the events that occur before, during and after a down turn.

Pre-down

--------

Employment Rate is a Great Indicator when we are just about to get into a downturn! Basically, when everyone is employed (Unemployment Rate falls to the bottom), there is only one way to go, UP. That's pretty much indicative to all pre-Recession indicators.

Construction Workers and Developments were in full swing with lots of work.

There also can be a hype to get into the Asset Class, but I am unsure if that occurs in all recessions. It's possible. I don't really believe that Real Estate is hyped up now. Maybe here on BP it is, but there are still a lot of people who don't want to buy RE because of the past Great Recession. If anything, the Stock Market looks very frothy to me. The DOW went from 6,000 to 22,500 from 2008 to now. Did Housing move up that much? NO. Just giving you an example so you can make your own comparison.

During this time, our property values generally were at their peak.

To put a number to it, let's just say it was $1 Million. That way I can help the readers understand how we thought of the property values in our specific location.

During the Downturn

-------------------

All levels of Government will lose money, especially Cities.

When Cities lose money, they start cutting back on services. The three services that they cut, or at least in the last recession, was:

1) Fire Department

2) Police Department

3) Teachers

4) Virtually All Construction was stopped. Permits, Ground Breaking and development all fell to virtually zero.

In the private sector, it's always the cheaper employees that go first. So low paid Restaurant staff, clerks, etc. Then it moves up the ladder.

Lots of non-essential activities dry up. So anything related to Art becomes vulnerable. A few of my Properties are in close location to an Art School and tenants who were Art Grads could not find ANY kind of Art related work. A lot just had to do other things like Dog Walking, Baby Sitting, etc.

When you cut these kinds of services, you can imagine what will happen to certain neighborhoods.

In NYC, richer, well supported neighborhoods were able to buy into private security to patrol the neighborhoods or at least lobby the City to provide more security. These neighborhoods also generally have good schools, but, more importantly for NYC, private schools continue to be supported.

Generally, since my properties are in these Class A neighborhoods, we did not see much of a dip in our Rentals. We did notice there was certainly an increase of people who lived in the fringed neighborhoods moving to safer locations. Crime picked up as the Police Services has to work a lot harder as their personel was cut. What really became a big problem was that NYC retired a lot of older, extremely experienced, higher paid Officers, but highered a lot of cheaper, lower paid, non-experienced rookies.

They just had to do it. The City lost a lot of money because of lost revenues in both Property Taxes, especially in Transfer Taxes as sales went down hugely, and the crash of the Stock Market.

Really, this was GROUND Zero for the Financial Crisis.

During this time, my Partners and I did feel the crisis, but more because we care about the financial well being of our current renters, especially those who are our long term tenants. We allowed a lot of the younger Renters to take on more roommates, did not raise their rents, and in some situations, lowered their rents to help, but it was not necessary for us to do so.

Continuing with an understanding of the property values, in the Pre-Recession peak, we used $1 Million as a value. During the Recession, there was just no way we could have sold it to anyone with a Mortgage until a few years later. I would say our property values dipped by around 20% at the most, but averaged a dip of 10%. So $900k would be the value I would place on it.

Post Recession

--------------

In the post recession, Economic activities picked slowly.

Lots of different changes occurred to try to prevent the same situation from re-occuring.

Policy changes made affected the qualifications of buyers and basically stopped the demand in it's track. A lot of buyers, especially Investors, just couldn't buy without Stellar Credit and Income. So Housing Activities had just bottomed out.

As time passed and Buyers adjusted to the new Normal in Qualifications, Housing Development and economic activities slowly came back.

Within 5 years, opportunities abounded.

Obviously, good neighborhoods survived. All my properties were doing excellent.

If you missed the boat on cheap prices in 2009, you can make a killing in 2014. And OF COURSE I bought in 2014.

You could take advantage now that things were starting to become normal. Teachers, Police and Firemen were being rehired. Construction workers and the bottom of the ladder people were doing well.

Today, 8 or 9 years after the recession, the value of my protfolio blew past peaks.

Going back to the theme of my Portfolio value which was Pre-Recession at $1 Million, dipping to $800k/900k, it is valued somewhere around $2.5 Million CONSERVATIVELY.

There is an old saying that I think Investors need to at least understand... "The hardest part about making a $ Million is keeping a $ Million."

After you made your Million and keep your Million......... which implies that you had survived through a really difficult economic down turn (either nationally or in your personal life), you now understand how to make Millions more.

Sorry about the long posting!

 Very well said and thorough post. Thank you!

Post: Old Brooklyn Cleveland OH

Michael KileyPosted
  • Real Estate Agent
  • Cleveland, OH
  • Posts 184
  • Votes 253

@Aaron Diehl

MLS. Multiple offers. 10k over asking

Post: I have 5 rental properties. Now what?

Michael KileyPosted
  • Real Estate Agent
  • Cleveland, OH
  • Posts 184
  • Votes 253

@Paul M.

Mortgage acceleration doesn't involve carrying a balance on your credit cards. And using the system doesn't require you to make any additional payments to your HELOC, but you certainly can if you want. The reason your balance gets paid down quicker is because your average daily balance on your HELOC remains lower so you pay less interest. There are many good books, podcasts and videos out there that do a much better job than me to explain how this happens.

Post: I have 5 rental properties. Now what?

Michael KileyPosted
  • Real Estate Agent
  • Cleveland, OH
  • Posts 184
  • Votes 253

@Darnell P.

I think you might enjoy podcast 305 with Brad Dantonio. He owns 5 SFH's free and clear and travels the world using the cash flow from those 5 properties. I too like the simplicity of his plan.

For anyone who wants to pay off their loans as quickly as possible, I'd research "mortgage acceleration". Basically you eliminate all of your checking and saving accounts and put all your deposits straight into your HELOC on your primary residence. The goal is to keep your average daily balance on your HELOC as low as you can by floating all your regular bills with credit cards. When the credit cards and other bills come due, pay them out of your HELOC, just as you would with your checking account. By doing this one simple thing, you will wipe off YEARS from your loans with NO additional payments.

But if you really want to have some fun, download a free financial calculator like Karl's Mortgage Calculator (awesome!) and experiment with what happens when you take that cashflow from your paid off rental and apply it toward the principal of the loan you're trying to pay off. It's insane how quickly the years fall off your loans by doing this! This particular calculator lets you apply multiple "additional payments" and lets you specify what months the additional payment gets applied to (1-360). 

Post: Should I contact an agent now or when I'm ready to buy?

Michael KileyPosted
  • Real Estate Agent
  • Cleveland, OH
  • Posts 184
  • Votes 253
Originally posted by @Sebastien Beauboeuf:

I'm new to investing and planning on buying and holding a single or multi-family home (in Chicago) in the summer of 2020 when i have enough money saved up. One of my goals this year is to be great at analyzing deals. Is it ok to get in touch with a real estate agent now even if I won't be seriously looking for a deal until next year? I know I can practice on my own by going on sites like Trulia, Zillow, Redfin, Realtor.com, Craigslist, etc but I don't know if the MLS have more options or if an agent has off-market leads he can tell me about. The reason I'm hesitant about contacting an agent is because I feel like I'd be wasting their time. Like I'll be using them to "practice" and not because I actually want to buy anything this year. (your feedback is appreciated)

I'd reach out now and find someone you like working with. If I were licensed in Illinois, I'd be happy to point you in the right direction. The MLS is up to the minute. As much as I still like sites like Zillow, they have some serious lag time and you won't see the best deals until they're already sold. Best of luck!

Post: Biggest Frustration with Real Estate Agents

Michael KileyPosted
  • Real Estate Agent
  • Cleveland, OH
  • Posts 184
  • Votes 253
Originally posted by @Dennis M.:

They lie , they are lazy , they don’t know a good investment to save their life ... 

 Actually, that's a rumor. I've heard the same thing about rental property investors from Erie PA but I don't believe that either.

Truth is, quality people attract quality people...and I tend to have mostly positive experiences everywhere I go! I still remember the first and only real estate agent I ever used before I got my own license 25 years ago. She was an excellent listener. I remember feeling so grateful that she worked so hard for me on a relatively small sale...but an important one.  So Karen Hurd, wherever you are, YOU ROCK and are a credit to all those honest, hardworking and intelligent real estate agents that are out there crushing it day in and day out!