All Forum Posts by: Matt Ruttenberg

@David Smith

Yes, this is common these days in business transactions and buy/sell agreements.  I've done this a few times for clients.  Usually I've seen it when a business is being purchased, and not just the property though.

@Zackary Thomas

Thats great you're looking into it early and focused on growth wealth! Using a WL policy is a long term strategy for sure, and best if you can start with $500 or more monthly in my opinion for the policy to make sense to fund REI.

When just starting out, there are other priorities in my opinion to focus on to build up a base, like emergency fund, payoff debt, budgeting, etc.  Also making sure that you have enough cash flow coming in is vital.

Once those are "checked off", I would start with funding a Roth IRA or other retirement accounts before doing a WL policy. It's a piece of the pie, but shouldn't be the first piece IMO.

@Luis Sosa

I think you have a pretty good concept in your mind.  Start with a term policy with a company that has good conversion options, and then convert as you build your wealth.  

However, the concept of using WL or IUL is that isn't the "money maker" when you mentioned the passive dividends.  The investment outside of the policy is where you'll build your wealth.  

Basically, use the policy to buy other assets, then you can use the policy (if designed properly) to supplement retirement when you're done obtaining assets.  And as others have already stated, I wouldn't focus on the policy as the investment, just a means to grow and obtain other assets.

They are longer term strategies, but can be a good "piece of the pie".

@Yuri Shamsin

I’ve done this with clients who have bought businesses or commercial RE transactions. It seems to be something the banks are moving towards over the last 10 years or so.

If you want to move to WL from your term, you might want to do it as a supplement of the term because the concept of “infinite banking” is to keep the death benefit as low as possible to promote cash value growth.

At the same time, since you’re “squashing” the death benefit in the WL, you may still need a certain amount of coverage for your family if you pass.

I look at the death benefit in the “infinite banking” scenario as an ancillary bonus because the growth of the cash is the primary goal. But you can still layer it with term.

Let me know if you’d like to see how the numbers turn out.

@Magdaleno Garcia

These can be great tools, but more of a long term play.  You're not tied to using Whole Life, you can also use an Indexed Universal Life policy, which gives you a little more flexibility, but also a little uncertainty since it's tied to the markets.  But, the idea is that the real money maker is outside of the policy in what you invest in.

The concept is, when designed properly, is to get the death benefit as low as possible in order to lower in the internal costs.  This will allow for better cash value growth.

As it grows, you're able to take loans against the policy and use for basically anything you like. The concept with REI is to use it for the down payment in the early years, and grow to full purchases as it builds value.

The best technique is to use it similar to a "fix and flip" loan and then refi into a long term loan and pay off the loan inside the policy.  Wash, rinse, repeat.

I've seen many policies designed improperly, so be careful who you end up speaking with.

@Ray Hull

To add to my other comment… ideally, it’s a longer term play. There are products that are better for short term with bigger cash on the front end. But it will surely lag long term.

Usually, it’s good to look at the Whole Life options next to a Universal Life option to compare the growth. There’s more versatility with Universal than WL.

Just need to run numbers with someone who knows the REI business.

It’s good to see how you can use it for down payments in the earlier years… then fully funding projects in the later years.

@Ray Hull

I design these for REI and business owners. Works well if designed properly. The idea to "squash" the death benefit down as much as possible to promote the cash value growth… not the other way around.

Need to work with the numbers to get it designed perfectly.

@Rhett Ruehle

I agree with that every situation is different.  If you need life insurance to for the death benefit, term life insurance is best.  Whether it's Whole Life or Universal Life, using it as a Cash Value play depends on how it's designed... which can be extremely advantageous.

I also own an administration company for 401ks and use LIRPs (Life Insurance Retirement Plans) or Deferred Compensation Plans quite a bit as an alternative. They're basically designed the same way, just different goals. Long term vs. short term goals (like REI) are two different goals that need to be designed slightly differently.

At the end of the day, running the numbers is the best place to start.  I am working on about 4 at the moment and can share a few ideas and point you in the right direction.

@Mike S.

Whole life is a more conservative approach.

I’ve designed them with both, and it’s hard to compete with the IUL. The concept with Whole Life is that you’ll invest in RE and get a higher ROR in the outside investments.

So Whole Life is basically a lending play.

 I agree with @John Perrings.  I own both an insurance agency and am a TPA for 401k plans, defined benefit plans, etc.

CV life insurance, if designed correctly, has many benefits outside of what the balance is at the end.  If designed properly for cash value growth, the commissions are lessened considerably than someone who doesn't understand how to design a policy.

I CV life insurance quite often for Deferred Compensation Plans for business owners as well due to the tax benefits for the employER.  

On another note, if you're using it for REI, than the real value is the RE on its own.

And if you're filing a Schedule E as a REI, then your income doesn't qualify for 401k contributions anyhow.