All Forum Posts by: Lindsay Wilcox

There's a person who goes through the neighborhood stealing A/C units, so if I had to guess, their intention is to blame him, since they left the window open.

Guess they forgot they'd already put the screen back in that window...

*sigh* You just can't make people smarter.

That's a good idea. Can't hurt to try to ask. At least that way it's definitive.

I think it's confusing that the court both expects me to "make every reasonable effort to minimize losses," but then also figure out what to do when tenants leave their stuff. Kinda tough to re-let the place if their stuff is still there!

Something else I forgot to mention:

When I gave the tenants the "pay rent or quit" notice, I also had them sign and return a "Promise to Pay or Vacate" form, which had them check whether they intended to pay or vacate. After the response they checked (vacate by today), is a paragraph that says:

"If we fail to do the above, we give our permission to Lessor to change the locks on our door and allow Lessor to re-rent our rental property. Any property listed in the Lease Addendum as belonging to Lessor will remain on said premises and will not be removed from the property. Any property that belongs to us, we give Lessor our permission to remove from the property and set on the street. We realize it is our responsibility to pick up our personal property and articles no later than 48 hours after the locks on our apartment have been changed."

Since I have this signed form stating their intent to move out today, and they did in fact give me keys today, shouldn't that be all I need to establish that they did move out and abandon their belongings?

First, please, please, PLEASE don't comment just to tell me to ask an attorney. I am going to ask an attorney. Here, I'm just looking for anecdotal info from anyone who's dealt with a situation like mine. I understand nothing you tell me should be considered legal advice.

Now, here's the what happened:

Tenants signed in April 2014. 12-month contract, paying weekly on Saturdays. They skipped a payment on June 1, but caught up a couple weeks later. Then they skipped again in July and they haven't been caught up on payments since July 13. They got close four weeks ago, but then dropped farther behind again, so I gave them 10 business days' notice to pay or quit on 8/12/14. They haven't paid a dime since then.

Yesterday, the 9th business day, I asked them when they would like to return keys today. They said, since their car had to be towed, there was absolutely no way they were going to be able to move out until Saturday. Having heard that story several times, I got the paperwork together to (finally) file for eviction (I know, I know - only suckers wait that long. Lesson learned). This afternoon, I was at the courthouse filing for an emergency possession hearing (because they had reported leaking pipes...which I verified were leaking through the floor into the basement), and when I came back, their keys were in my mailbox! Not sure how they were able to come up with somewhere to go before Saturday, but they were out!

But when I went back to their apartment, ALL their furniture is still there. All of it. They stole my window A/C and the plastic piece that holds the batteries in my thermostat, and they took their clothes, but everything else is still there.

So I sent a text message: "Should I take these keys as an indication you do not intend to come back?" They replied, "Seriously? U said to be out today [expletive]."

Indiana's statutes are no help at all:

"Sec. 2. (a) A landlord has no liability for loss or damage to a tenant's personal property if the tenant's personal property has been abandoned by the tenant.

(b) For purposes of this section, a tenant's personal property is considered abandoned if a reasonable person would conclude that the tenant has vacated the premises and has surrendered possession of the personal property."

So...can I get rid of their stuff? It seems "reasonably" obvious to me that they abandoned it, since they gave me keys and called me a rude name when I asked if they were coming back. I'm expecting a call from the court tomorrow to let me know if I'm going to be granted the emergency hearing, though I don't know if I even need it since the "emergency" part doesn't apply anymore.

Just want to know if anyone has had this kind of situation, where the tenant did leave the keys, but also left a bunch of their stuff, especially if you were in Indiana. I'll be talking to an attorney too, so again, please don't comment just to tell me to do that. I'm not looking for legal advice, just anecdotes. Thanks!

For Pete's Sake, Jon K., have you missed the several times I've mentioned that the third unit has "LEGAL non-conforming zoning" status? Please don't just talk over the thread. Either join the conversation by actually reading the rest of the conversation or stay out of it. What you're doing is just rude.

The essence of what I keep trying to ask is specifically about the fact that the space I'm talking about finishing in the basement wouldn't be a "unit." It'd be an additional space in the house, but without a kitchen or bedroom, it's not a "unit." It's just a couple extra rooms, potentially even with access to one of the other units, that I would happen to live in.

The question is: Is it *legal* for me to live in a space in the house that is NOT a "unit" in the house?

From what I can tell, the answer is, "Yes, definitely, as long as it's accessible from one of the other units, because then I'm actually living in one of the already-existing units and just renting out most of that unit to a roommate I rarely see and can lock me out of his/her part of the space," but no one has actually answered the question about whether it's legal if the only way to access it is from outdoors.

Jon K., did you even read the rest of the posts? As I said before, the windows are 3'x4'. Heck, they're bigger than the windows in the above-ground units. The law just specifies 15 sqft for below-ground units. The space is perfectly safe. As I also said before, the utilities are not metered separately. My mail goes to a PO Box as it is, so I don't see how that would change. The square footage changes as soon as I finish the space, whether or not I actually live in it. Plus, it's not like we're talking about a dozen extra people here. The unit I'm talking about renting out that I'm living in now is small. 550 sqft. Since it's one bedroom, I can limit the occupancy to two people. That's hardly a crowd. And I can't legally add a 4th unit even if I do finish the room out to code because it's only zoned for two units and was grandfathered in with three, but cannot be increased to four. But I really feel like I'm repeating myself.

Come to think of it, if I, for example, dropped a trap door from the unit I'm living in now down to the basement, not only could I live down there and rent out the unit I'm living in now, but I could choose who was going to live there based on any qualities I wanted at all, since technically they'd be my "roommate" and not my "tenant." All anti-discrimination laws are out when someone is sharing your residence, right?

That was supposed to say "(again, I'd sleep there, not them)." My phone appears to be eating blocks text.

Is they're a difference between "part of another unit" and "space any of the other residents can use upon request"? Like, I would like to refinish the space even if I stay in the unit where I'm living. I'd put in a wet bar (and probably a karaoke stage, but that's beside the point!) and a den that would probably have a Murphy bed in it any time someone comes visit from out of town (again, I'd there them). I'll probably also turn another part of the basement into storage for the other units. As far as I understand it, that's a completely ordinary, acceptable thing to do with a basement. No special permits required.

So what's the actual difference between that and making those exact same physical changes to the space and throwing a microwave the counter and storing stuff down there sleeping there?

A) How would anyone know that's what I was doing?

B) Why would anyone care?

C) Does anyone have a legal ability to fine me/make me move/sue me for it, and if so, how do I find the laws about that so I can weigh my options (again, not that I don't want ask attorney, but I also want learn about things myself, and most attorneys, like most people, get confused when I start trying think way outside normal boxes)?

Matthew, egress windows have to 15 sqft under the law in Indianapolis. Suffice it to say my 3'x4' windows are more than large enough to actually exit if necessary. They're just a touch too small for code requirements, and since I can't rent the unit out to anyone else anyway, I don't think it's worth the expense to make them slightly larger.

I do love all the unsolicited feedback about whether anyone else would make the same decision I'm considering. That definitely isn't what I asked. I asked whether anyone knew if it was legal, not whether anyone else would like to live underground with a mini-fridge and a Crockpot. That part is my business! I've spent months at a time living in a tent. I'm not asking you to live my life.