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All Forum Posts by: Kevin Scott

Kevin Scott has started 2 posts and replied 153 times.

Post: Flipping partnership going to court on debate of renovation costs

Kevin Scott
Pro Member
Posted
  • Flipper / Buyer
  • Tacoma, WA
  • Posts 160
  • Votes 80

@Patti Robertson just want to make sure you saw that it wasn't a 1300 sq ft remodel.  It was a 1300 sq ft addition plus 1700 sq ft remodel or something to that affect.  In LA.

So the numbers seem a little more reasonable than just a 1300 remodel

Post: Flipping partnership going to court on debate of renovation costs

Kevin Scott
Pro Member
Posted
  • Flipper / Buyer
  • Tacoma, WA
  • Posts 160
  • Votes 80
Originally posted by @Benjamin Haberman:

@J Scott I must say that i totally disagree with you. If he’s making money as the contractor, good for him. We are all syndicators here and if the deal you put together, would require a reliable contractor such as your self , then include your numbers in repair budget when analyzing the deal. It sounds like this guy showed the investors/partners the numbers and that they worked. From there he got the deal done as he stated. I don’t see a problem with this, at all. Vertical integration is a beautiful thing.

 Yes. If the numbers are included in the contract it is only fair that they make a profit on the construction.  They are pulling resources from their company that would be earning money on a different job. Just like a money partner values their money in an investment and expects a return.  I do agree with j. Scott that this type of deal should have a little extra caution as in better up front agreements or a lot more transparency if the agreement aren't really clear.

Post: Flipping partnership going to court on debate of renovation costs

Kevin Scott
Pro Member
Posted
  • Flipper / Buyer
  • Tacoma, WA
  • Posts 160
  • Votes 80

@Matthew Olszak is correct at cost is definitely definable in a contract.  Generally contracts are cost plus or unit priced or hard bid but if this is indeed a cost plus contract or just a cost contract then the contractor will be forced to open the books.  If records aren't clear or if other receipts are shown there is danger of other problems for that contractor.  

A cost plus contract would require an upfront estimate which could be considered the budget that was mentioned. This is usually considered a rough estimate, rom or could also be considered not to exceed. In that scenario the 275 is not a fixed fee the contractor is entitled too. Mixing the words cost and budget I have a feeling would end up being a problem for the contractor and I'm guessing the books will be pulled.  They might still allow for a little profit margin even if its not stated but if the job ended up costing 200k then there will most likely be a judgement.

If the words cost are truly what was mentioned then the savings should be passed onto the llc.  and the 275 would most likely be considered an estimate and not a bid.

Post: Flipping partnership going to court on debate of renovation costs

Kevin Scott
Pro Member
Posted
  • Flipper / Buyer
  • Tacoma, WA
  • Posts 160
  • Votes 80

@Mary M. it is starting to sound bad and this thread could be used against him.  I am sticking to saying that he should make a profit on the construction side for the work provided but I think he should just show the correct profit and tell them this is what was agreed why is there a problem. 

That being said if they agreed to a certain amount they agreed to a certain amount.  He will probably have issues with court because of saying cost as was mentioned in the thread but he also said they agreed to a an amount of 275.  That could be a budget or a bid if its a budget then the word cost mixed with budget might hurt his case.

I don't think anyone intended to cheat anyone here just sounds like a big miscommunication in the beginning.   The receipt comment hopefully is just a comment out of frustration.

Post: Flipping partnership going to court on debate of renovation costs

Kevin Scott
Pro Member
Posted
  • Flipper / Buyer
  • Tacoma, WA
  • Posts 160
  • Votes 80

@Jonathan A. I'm assuming the realtor partner got his full commission when he sold, which would seem fair but also might be why he didn't care as much as the others.

As per my earlier post I think contractors in this situation should be entitled to make their percentage as agreed on the sale as well as profit on the construction.  But, I do think everything probably needed to be better understood by all parties.  I'm sure it was clear in your mind as you do this way more than the others.  Its tough working with newer investors that don't realize they should have a value on time.

Post: Flipping partnership going to court on debate of renovation costs

Kevin Scott
Pro Member
Posted
  • Flipper / Buyer
  • Tacoma, WA
  • Posts 160
  • Votes 80

This really depends on your contract with them and how its worded.  At cost or for a budgeted price are different.  Contrary to what a couple others are saying here overhead can be included as cost as it is something you would have to cover and can be captured.  You would also most likely be able to get industry standard admin fees (part of overhead) and pay for your time.  Although debatable, net profit would most likely be everything above that and you may or may not be able to say you deserve a little profit on the construction as well above the overhead.  You getting pay for your time is not profit.   Imagine if as a group you  just hired a different GC.  The GC isn't running a charity and neither should you be.

So if you told them or had a contract with them to do it at cost (without any stipulation as to what cost truly is) you would probably be able to argue that you should get the actual true expenses plus some admin fees and your time on the job without profit.  Yes your time is a cost.   Assuming you were all equal outside of the construction you would most likely get an equal split on the profit of the deal and enough to cover the costs plus normal fees.  This really isn't fair to you since you truly should get profit on the construction side but at cost would mean you didn't agree to profit so you would be out.

If your contract said an agreed budget and you didn't go over and have to worry about change orders like it seemed in your first post you would most likely get the entire budget plus your 1/3 of the profit on deal.  

It would not be an equal deal if you put in the same money and ran the project but only received the same compensation.  

Running the project is worth something so if its not paid in the construction contract then you would be able to fairly say you should get more than 1/3 of the deal.

OF course you can lose any court case even if the paperwork is completely solid if the other side can prove you deceived them or any of a million other things.

Basically I agree with @Matthew Olszak I think he's spot on, as well as @Jay Hinrichs as no one will win now.

@J Scott I agree with for the most part as it does seem deceptive to some degree (could be an easy misunderstanding). I do however think a contractor that does work on an equity deal deserves more than an equal percent of the deal (assuming money is the same) they have resources they are using that they  could be using to profit on another job so they are losing money by doing the flip if they don't make profit on that side.  Same concept as people that use their own money of flips that don't account for what their money could be making just invested somewhere else.   Also not mentioned is what happens when someone has a warrantee claim. I bet the investors aren't going to help you then.  But you will be on the hook.  At least in many states you would be for 12 months.  Often not a problem but it is your problem when it happens.

Really like J and some others are hinting at, just show your books to them.  Be reasonable with it and argue that you deserve a little extra plus your time.  If you do a deal like that again make it clear that you will get cost plus a percent, and make sure your hourly time is spelled out in the agreement and you will work x amount of hours a week managing it.  

The issue with a fixed price in these scenarios is that if you don't feel comfortable with change orders then you get screwed.  So Time and Material work better if you give them a rom and set your fees in advance. Only charge for the paperwork per change order don't profit on them (you could). 

Post: ​Heavy property taxes in WA worse than state income taxes

Kevin Scott
Pro Member
Posted
  • Flipper / Buyer
  • Tacoma, WA
  • Posts 160
  • Votes 80

So who said anyone specifically was stepping over a dollar to save a dime?  Do MBA's need reading comprehension, or is it just mostly basic arithmetic?

Post: Justin Williams’ House Flipping Formula

Kevin Scott
Pro Member
Posted
  • Flipper / Buyer
  • Tacoma, WA
  • Posts 160
  • Votes 80

I recently went to FHL in San Diego.  That alone was one of the best events (if not the best) I have gone to.  The speakers were great and provided more information in 3 days than are in some of the more expensive coaching programs.  I'm not a member of any of the coaching programs but considering how much was given at the FHL event I would guess that the programs are filled with great info. 

I personally know a couple of newer investors that are in the coaching and they love it.  I have bought properties from them so they are definitely "now" doing the business.  I also was able to see, at least for one of them how available the coaches are to answer their questions.

I have no affiliation with them other than going to their extremely well run event. 

Post: New to Wholesaling in Oklahoma

Kevin Scott
Pro Member
Posted
  • Flipper / Buyer
  • Tacoma, WA
  • Posts 160
  • Votes 80

@Tyson Wade I really like your thought process. It's nice to hear a new investor understand that contracting at too high of a price doesn't just result in a canceled contract but can really hurt the seller and possibly the buyer.  

You are someone I'd work with.

Cassi had some good info.  Get with a local realtor that isn't crazy busy but also isn't just someone that has a license.  Let them know you will be buying properties (are you wholesaling only) and some of them you will be reselling. When you resell they will list it for you.  If you are wholesaling they can still bring you a buyer.  Theres a lot more to that answer but it would take up

Post: What’s the best & quickest way to find buyer for wholesale deal

Kevin Scott
Pro Member
Posted
  • Flipper / Buyer
  • Tacoma, WA
  • Posts 160
  • Votes 80

@Shanae Williams What are the details Im a buyer do you have pics etc.  If we can't buy then a simple craigslist add will get the calls coming your way. I like the landlord suggestion by Christopher.  Might have to work fast on that one though.

Google we buy houses or sell house fast.  The top paid could be buyers. (might be other wholesalers though) and the top free ones might also be buyers especially since they have probably been around long enough to get their site ranked.