All Forum Posts by: Jonathan Greene

@Alma Mills you did exactly as I suggest. Practice and learn in your own market or one nearby and then slowly figure out if OOS makes sense for you. And I completely agree that if you are going to go OOS it better be worth it. There are people going OOS for $100/month per door and $4,000 a year profit which can all be eaten in one A/C issue.

@Steve K. yeah, that's why I get so mad. I see people with only 5k savings wondering how to invest that OOS or pulling from pensions a lot of money to waste it somewhere they don't know. And another great point, I do think that OOS investing does not help towns the way most think. If all the rehabs were great and the owners responsible investors, yes, but they aren't. A lot of OOS investor are first-time dummies who ruin another house and also don't appreciate the kind of neighborhood and the neighbors because out of sight, out of mind. Locals DO NOT like OOS investors at all so if you are going to do it right, you travel there and meet the neighbors and then you have more eyes looking over your property or properties. It's basially being a smart human, but in the world of quick-fixes and scaling businesses and hustle and flow, people forget that all businesses are built of personal relationships not metrics.

@Jeremy A. read what I wrote, and I have handled multiple mold remediation situations. I said "As long as the mold is contained, the source is properly identified, and a clean-up plan is known, mold is not a killer at all." That is absolutely correct, there is no disputing it. If you know the source, can confirm it's been contained, and have a clean-up plan, which would include a mold remediation company, there are no risks. Read before responding.

@Steve K. fantastic points and actual stories of real OOS. Maybe I should have elaborated more on my own experience if people didn't look at some of the deals I have listed on BP. I've invested OOS numerous times, but always in an area where I once lived or lived nearby. I have never chosen a location I had no connection with. I have never lost money on a deal this way, but I have had bad vacation rental experiences as a landlord and regular errant tenants, but not a ton over 30 years. When I had multiple properties in one general area, we hired one property manager, not a company. He oversaw multiple properties for 15 years, no issues and he was paid a salary. He always sent photos and it was great and we did go visit when we were in the area. The PM was only responsible for maintenance and checking up when rent was late on-site. We handled the rent and evictions. I've handled several vacation rentals from other states and they have been great for me as well, but we always had a close friend, one that we already knew for years, in those areas who was our point person for the short-term renters.

OOS can be great. It's the lure to first-time investors that is horrendous and sketchy.

@Andy Freeman I agree with you and pretty much said all that in subsequent posts as well. The whole post was for new investors who come on the boards and ask where they should invest first and ignore their hometown. They haven't visited the areas, they only look on the computer, and they listen to everyone selling them a real turnkey special as the messiah of all investments.

Of course OOS works, but it's not for first investors unless they don't really want to be a real estate investor, just a passive asset earner.

@Kai Van Leuven it absolutely shocks me what people will settle for in terms of a monthly "win" just so they can say they own another property. That is terrible investing. There is not a single thing in the world that would get me to invest in something where I have to take out a loan to make $100/month, it's nonsense.

@Laith Alabidi the problem with finding a team for new investors is that they trust everyone. The only way to find and trust an OOS team is to go to the area over and over and see the work they do and how they work. You can't build an effective OOS team from afar unless you have verified bridge contacts that can vouch.

@Kai Van Leuven boom. Agree on it all. I love number 3, that one is it. That's why people on here want to own 100 doors at $100 profit/door. Great idea until one unit needs a new roof and your entire portfolio is swimming in the septic that is about to burst at the property in Akron that you know was a good deal. :)

@Bob Prisco you are talking about passive asset investors, not real estate investors. Just because you invest through someone in a real estate venture does not make you a real estate investor using the terminology and expectation that most of us here think would be appropriate. The post was for NEW real estate investors who are looking to learn about real estate, but get caught up in the hoopla. Sure, if someone wants to give you money to make them money, great, but that's not real estate investing and it's not learning anything.

Everyone keeps saying the numbers don't work in CA or NJ, that's not true. You can't expect a certain percentage to work across the board. You may get less return in rent against purchase price in CA, but your appreciation is MUCH better than in ND. The problem is that people stare at numbers and say I will only do this if I get x% and that is sound if you just care about returns. Most people want to learn and love real estate and to do that they have to know and see their own market or travel and get to know an oos market to become a real investor who has a stake in the outcome of every deal they do.

No one who wants to park their money somewhere is trolling these forums, it's new investors who want to learn, but get capsized by bad advice meant for seasoned investors who have way more money.

@Mike D'Arrigo those aren't real estate investors, they are passive asset investors. I am directly talking about new investors who want to learn, but get caught up in the nonsense of thinking they can learn from afar. OOS investing is viable for many, but not for first-time investors looking to learn all about the business.

@Dan H. very solid points. California is really the investing unicorn because it is hard, but still it can be done. Most newbies aren't doing marketing for off-market so will never know, but your numbers are obviously good. In Cali you might have to drive a little farther to see something in person, but one of my main points is - even if you will have to invest oos because of this, you have to see properties first. 25-50 before you can do anything right. So see some you can't buy, but you better be best friends with an agent who is looking for him or herself. And if you are going to go oos, you have to visit and know it, not just rely on the Internet and "gurus" to help you do it. I do appreciate the points, all very well taken.

Never give up your best paying job before you have all the money you need to invest. Why not see if you can just help the investing firm on the side on a pay-per-marketing drop deal and learn while not cutting your income in half? If you aren't working 80 hours a week, use some of those extra hours to add value for them in return for learning.

If the mold issue is disclosed and the property is as-is, they are probably factoring that in, but just offer whatever you think it's worth. As long as the mold is contained, the source is properly identified, and a clean-up plan is known, mold is not a killer at all. If you have a quote for the mold just include it with the offer and offer down appropriately. They can only say no and mold is certainly a viable thing to go down on even if it is as-is.