The Rise (and Fall) of the Bro Investor

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The Rise (and Fall) of the Bro Investor

Jonathan GreeneBusiness Member
Real Estate Consultant · Madison, NJ · Member since 2016 · 6k+ posts · 7k+ votes

"Bro, just got my first deal. Don't know what to do. LOL. Halp!"

How many times a day are we seeing this post? Yes, everyone has to start somewhere, but the problem with the Bro Investor is that he is ruining good deals for the other real wholesalers and off-market experts in the area. Bro Investor makes too many promises, pays way too much, and relies solely on the advice of strangers on the Internet to win that first deal. Bro Investor opens himself up to every opportunist out there by unsubtly telling everyone that he has no idea what he is doing, but is determined to do it anyway.

Bro Investor wants to win a deal, not find a deal, so he overpays so he can call himself a "Rental Property Investor." But Bro Investor forgot about a repair fund because he only used a deal calculator once because "it's just numbers, bruh." So then Bro comes back to the forums:

"Bro, how much is a new furnace? Only allotted $27/month for repair. LMAO. Tenants are cold. Halp!"

Bro Investor is pushing the prices up in every market across the country right now by buying bad deals. Then, because someone in the forums told him that Oklahoma City is hot right now he bought turnkey at a monthly loss because of "appreciation and stuff." When you try to ask Bro Investor serious questions about why they are in the business or what their level of experience is or why they are taking deals if they have no clue what to do when they get one, they are like:

"Bro, chill."

But they can't answer because Bro Investor is used to being coddled and back patted and just wants people to help him solve his problems, quickly over the Internet in a warm, safe space, with no questions, only constructive solutions that also agree with him and align with his life principles.

You know if you are a Bro Investor or not. If you've done your due diligence, hit REI meetups, looked at deals in real life, made real-life connections with others in REI, you are not a Bro Investor. You will be fine. You will probably have to swoop in and buy Bro Investor's "deal of a lifetime" in 12 months when the market turns down, but by then Bro Investor will be posting in a forum about opening up a co-working space in Bali with 4-Hour Work Week on every table.

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Clifford Paul
Rental Property Investor · Member since 2018 · 483 posts · 956 votes
6y

You forgot a couple bro investor questions. 

Bro investor- buying my first property have no job and no money should I start an LLC for asset protection.

Bro investor- my first property and my tenant didn't pay first months rent what should I do?

Bro investor- I quit my job how do I buy my first property?

Bro investor- HELP! Got my first property under contract I only make $8 dollars an hour at a sandwich shop. No bank will finance me. 

I got a million more but I got to finish this $12 cigar.  LOL 

53Reply
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  • Landon Whitt
    Property Manager · Oklahoma city · Member since 2018 · 58 posts · 55 votes
    6y

    well said, bro investors are part of the reason for tenant landlord laws. They forget about taking care of the person actually living in their home. Most professional property managers will not even accept management from tenants that don't cashflow enough to cover the expenses. 

    Can we talk about all the home owners in Oklahoma city that cant afford to repair their own home.. whats the answer for them? We try to buy their home from them and the answer is "where am i going to go?" whats the answer for that?

    6Reply
  • Jonathan GreeneBusiness Member
    OP
    Real Estate Consultant · Madison, NJ · Member since 2016 · 6k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    6y

    @Landon Whitt well said. Bro Investor always is focused on the cash flow or cash on cash return or some other acronym they made up instead of the tenant and making the place a better place for them to live. Bro Investor just doesn't know enough to invest, but want to anyway and always gets in over his head.

    That is a huge problem. The first thing I ask every off-market seller is do they have a place to go next and how are they planning on getting there? I often give 90-day leasebacks to make sure they can find a place. Bro Investor just pays someone local to kick them out and then overpays some contractors to do a Home Depot special renovation (not that there's anything wrong with that, but Bro Investor thinks it's "top of the line").

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  • Todd Rasmussen
    Rental Property Investor · Clarksville, TN · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    6y

    @Jonathan Greene

    Bro investor paid 525 cash for an 8 unit apartment that I had valued at 284. Max upside is 575 and going to cost them to get there. Waiting for public records to update so I can contact the owner with a PSA.

    Being new to investing, I lean towards defending other new investors but I cringe pretty frequently; seeing many posts here as well as some of the closing prices in markets we keep an eye on. The race to overpay is real or people haven't gotten to the chapter after expansion yet.

    11Reply
  • Todd Rasmussen
    Rental Property Investor · Clarksville, TN · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Jonathan Greene:

    @Landon Whitt well said. Bro Investor always is focused on the cash flow or cash on cash return or some other acronym they made up instead of the tenant and making the place a better place for them to live. Bro Investor just doesn't know enough to invest, but want to anyway and always gets in over his head.

    That is a huge problem. The first thing I ask every off-market seller is do they have a place to go next and how are they planning on getting there? I often give 90-day leasebacks to make sure they can find a place. Bro Investor just pays someone local to kick them out and then overpays some contractors to do a Home Depot special renovation (not that there's anything wrong with that, but Bro Investor thinks it's "top of the line").

    "What do you mean the value hasn't doubled? I painted and added baseboards!" 

    9Reply
  • Clifford Paul
    Rental Property Investor · Member since 2018 · 483 posts · 956 votes
    6y

    You forgot a couple bro investor questions. 

    Bro investor- buying my first property have no job and no money should I start an LLC for asset protection.

    Bro investor- my first property and my tenant didn't pay first months rent what should I do?

    Bro investor- I quit my job how do I buy my first property?

    Bro investor- HELP! Got my first property under contract I only make $8 dollars an hour at a sandwich shop. No bank will finance me. 

    I got a million more but I got to finish this $12 cigar.  LOL 

    53Reply
  • Todd Rasmussen
    Rental Property Investor · Clarksville, TN · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Clifford Paul:

    You forgot a couple bro investor questions. 

    Bro investor- buying my first property have no job and no money should I start an LLC for asset protection.

    Bro investor- my first property and my tenant didn't pay first months rent what should I do?

    Bro investor- I quit my job how do I buy my first property?

    Bro investor- HELP! Got my first property under contract I only make $8 dollars an hour at a sandwich shop. No bank will finance me. 

    I got a million more but I got to finish this $12 cigar.  LOL 

    I just laughed so hard I scared the receptionist.

    7Reply
  • Jonathan GreeneBusiness Member
    OP
    Real Estate Consultant · Madison, NJ · Member since 2016 · 6k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    6y

    @Todd Rasmussen by no means is Bro Investor all new investors. There are a lot of smart, savvy, well-intentioned new investors doing the work. Bro Investor is pushing the prices up for all the first-time investors all over the country. Bro Investor just wants to wear the REI badge, but doesn't know how to make it worth something.

    @Clifford Paul as Bro Investor would say, LMAO brah. See below:

    Bro Investor - What the hell do I do? A tenant has a boyfriend who stays over a lot. Sure, he has already snaked the drain, fixed the shower, and repaired the steps outside for free because he is a good guy (also taking the load off of me, Shaka Bra Investor), but shouldn't I kick her out?

    Bro Investor - I just read my first BP post yesterday. Today I signed up for 12 months of REI coaching with a guy on BP whose profile wasn't filled out and his website was under construction, but he said he knew the best deals in North Dakota. No one is in the market braheim.

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    5Reply
  • Landon Whitt
    Property Manager · Oklahoma city · Member since 2018 · 58 posts · 55 votes
    6y

    90 day lease back is not an answer thats your solution to gaining the asset. Whats the long term solution?

    3Reply
  • Ronan DonnellyPro Member
    Investor · New York City, NY · Member since 2012 · 332 posts · 385 votes
    6y

    @Jonathan Greene, I’m all about the opportunity, you should be celebrating the Bro investor, he could be the perfect exit strategy for you, or the perfect buyer if you are very skilled at sourcing the right deals. Take a positive view of everything, it will help you to see the opportunity! Good luck!

    [email protected]
    24Reply
  • Mark Allen Kenny
    Investor · New York City, NY · Member since 2016 · 155 posts · 105 votes
    6y

    Some of those "Bro investors" are hedge fund managers.

    13Reply
  • Jonathan GreeneBusiness Member
    OP
    Real Estate Consultant · Madison, NJ · Member since 2016 · 6k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    6y

    @Landon Whitt I can't solve a city's affordable housing shortage. I can only figure out to help the seller and I do not make them move if they haven't secured a place. I only buy if they have a place to go and are working on it and it can be verified. I allow them to leave everything they don't want and take only what they need. Usually they are being foreclosed on so it's coming either way.

    @Ronan Donnelly yes, they can buy our bad deals, but Bro Investor is one of the biggest reasons that investing prices are overvalued in a lot of areas. First-timers who didn't learn enough buy high and then get in trouble. A couple buy highs can overinflate a block's value and then deflate it dramatically in a year when they sell low or quit the renovation and allow the cycle to start again, but for the wrong reasons.

    @Mark Allen Kenny yes. So much cash to spend on RE, but that's what pushes the prices up in all of the allegedly "hot" markets.

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  • Tom Shallcross
    Rental Property Investor · Chicago · Member since 2018 · 613 posts · 1k+ votes
    6y

    @Jonathan Greene Waiting for someone to reply with the Zoolander "I'm not your Brah!" - and to see who has Zoolander tagged as a keyword :)

    The biggest one I see is "I don't like my job so I'm going to quit and BRRRR some real estate so I can retire in 3 yrs."

    RE is a great (arguably the best) conduit to get to that point.  However, like every other aspect of life, it will have challenges and require hard work.  If you are lazy in your current job, you don't just switch industries and then magically get to go sit on a beach.  This isn't your magical outlet, but instead an opportunity that requires daily discipline and focus. 

    If you're interested you'll do what's convenient, if you're committed you'll do whatever it takes (John Assaraf).  A lot of people are interested but not committed to fight the adversity.

    12Reply
  • Ned J.Pro Member
    Investor · Manteca, CA · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    6y
    I am still almost shocked daily with the posts like " I got my first deal.....now what?" We have all been clueless newbies and had zero idea what we were doing at one time or another....... and in some regard I applaud their willingness to jump in head first..... but damn.... maybe you should have some clue on what the plan is going to be BEFORE your first deal is made But even the more seasoned people are going to be faced with a new situation or challenge they have never faced and post what some see as a "stupid newbie" question....... so not all these "what do I do" questions are by Bro investors...
    13Reply
  • Chris Butler
    Rental Property Investor · Waterford, CT · Member since 2018 · 27 posts · 7 votes
    6y

    @Jonathan Greene

    Lol, I’m definitely a “bro” kinda dude but not a “bro invested”, very true though, I see these posts every time i come on which isn’t often.

    To the “bro investor” anything we do in life has risk and reward attached, I say take risk when possible......CALCULATED RISK. Read read read before jumping in to anything in life. If you don’t want to read about, you probably don’t want it that bad.

    2Reply
  • Jonathan GreeneBusiness Member
    OP
    Real Estate Consultant · Madison, NJ · Member since 2016 · 6k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    6y

    @Tom Shallcross yup. Usually, 3 acronyms used in a newbie post is a Bro Investor. Too many people think anyone can do it and in a way they are right, but exactly like you said, you aren't going to be a good REI by just hanging around and being lazy and only trying to get people to help in forums so you don't have to do the work yourself. That's Investor Bro.

    @Ned J. there are plenty of newbie posts that are good. The ones I rail against are Investor Bro and no background info. Like "Just got my first deal, 200k ARV 340 repairs 50. Is this good?" Then you ask - Where is it? How did you evaluate the repairs? Who gave you the numbers? Have you ever done a deal? How is appreciation in the neighborhood? Then Investor Bro, "Stop coming at me bro, just chill."

    The forums are clogged with a bunch of garbage because too many people just want a quick pat on the back. If you really want help on here, and the ones that do get it, you write it all out and let people weigh in. Those who post their background, the deal thoughts, and smart questions will get a TON of help. Investor Bro just wants a head nod that he is cool.

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  • Jonathan GreeneBusiness Member
    OP
    Real Estate Consultant · Madison, NJ · Member since 2016 · 6k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    6y

    @Chris Butler Investor Bro says he read Kiyosaki but really listened to the first quarter on Audible on 2x. Investor Bro says he's listened to all of the BP podcasts, but that meant all of the ones this week and even then he did it at the gym and was busy talking the whole time near the bench before maxing out on one set.

    Things Investor Bro doesn't do is exactly what you hit on. Research himself. Read and take notes. Listen to others unless it aligns with what they think is right, even though they don't know anything.

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  • Alexander FelicePro Member
    Guy with Great Hair · Austin, TX · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    6y

    The definition of BRO investor here is every ambitious person new to real estate who doesn't know what they are doing but are TRYING, also known as everyone who ever started a business, ever. Yeah people do a lot of stupid things, except @Jonathan Greene who has never yet done anything embarrassing.

    just kidding, the truth is I looked through your post history and ALL YOU DO IS COMPLAIN ABOUT NEW INVESTORS 

    So in my estimation, you're the bro, and this kind of behavior makes you a NET LOSS to the community. 

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    51Reply
  • Account Closed
    Mandan, ND · Member since 2017 · 42 posts · 64 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Jonathan Greene:

    @Landon Whitt I can't solve a city's affordable housing shortage. I can only figure out to help the seller and I do not make them move if they haven't secured a place. I only buy if they have a place to go and are working on it and it can be verified. I allow them to leave everything they don't want and take only what they need. Usually they are being foreclosed on so it's coming either way.

    @Ronan Donnelly yes, they can buy our bad deals, but Bro Investor is one of the biggest reasons that investing prices are overvalued in a lot of areas. First-timers who didn't learn enough buy high and then get in trouble. A couple buy highs can overinflate a block's value and then deflate it dramatically in a year when they sell low or quit the renovation and allow the cycle to start again, but for the wrong reasons.

    @Mark Allen Kenny yes. So much cash to spend on RE, but that's what pushes the prices up in all of the allegedly "hot" markets.

     Any hard data to back any of your assertions up?  When you point two fingers, three are pointing back at you.  

    0Reply
  • Jim K.
    Handyman · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2018 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    6y

    Originally posted by @Alexander Felice:

    The definition of BRO investor here is every ambitious person new to real estate who doesn't know what they are doing but are TRYING, also known as everyone who ever started a business, ever. Yeah people do a lot of stupid things, except @Jonathan Greene who has never yet done anything embarrassing.

    just kidding, the truth is I looked through your post history and ALL YOU DO IS COMPLAIN ABOUT NEW INVESTORS 

    So in my estimation, you're the bro, and this kind of behavior makes you a NET LOSS to the community. 

    While I have to agree with the Guy with Great Hair, the thing that gets me is when the Bro Investor is questioned and he starts the chest pounding. I think it was last year when this guy was bragging about getting his first fixer-upper deal OOS and never seeing the place. People started asking him about what his repair strategy was and he came out with how tough he was in the military, I got this, brah.

    I was watching my screen and wondering, "What does a leaking water heater care about your bada$$ity?"

    9Reply
  • Terrell Garren
    Rental Property Investor · Concord, NC · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    6y

    You might be a Bro Investor if - You rent to a dude driving his mom's car, 500 credit score, unemployed, one felony, a tat on his forehead and lives with a friend.  You like him because he knows the difference between a Sportster and Softtail. 

    5Reply
  • Jonathan GreeneBusiness Member
    OP
    Real Estate Consultant · Madison, NJ · Member since 2016 · 6k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    6y

    @Alexander Felice thanks for going through my entire post history and only picking out the ones where I talk about new investors, which probably is about 25-40% honestly. But you should know as a moderator the difference between personal attacks and a truthful, but satirical post. I mean really, Guy With Great Hair, means you understand satire or at least I hope so. The point of the post is not that all new investors suck, but the representation of what the Bro Investor is is actually what is driving prices up all over the market. You selectively avoided all the good points, which are all true, just to play games and attract new investors to some class you may offer later on Broke is a Choice. I am not here to get business, I am here to do business and to help those who really want to learn about REI and do it the right way. I don't have classes to sell, I just run my own REI business and have done it for a long time. Bro Investors are in it to pound their chest, talk big game in the forums, and scrounge others for information instead of doing the work. I've been doing it 30 years so if you think new investors annoy me, you are wrong. Dumb and cocky investors annoy me because they make it harder for us to do our business and push prices up by overbuying, under-repairing and generally not knowing what they are doing and then running to the forum for HALP.

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  • Henry Lazerow
    Real Estate Agent · Chicago, IL · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    6y

    What's with all the negative post on bp lately. Great way to help push your business stream lined properties LOL

    Btw the markets hot from owner occupants paying high prices mixed with low interest rates. "Bro investors" or whatever you want to call them make up a tiny sliver of the overall housing market. 

    23Reply
  • Jonathan GreeneBusiness Member
    OP
    Real Estate Consultant · Madison, NJ · Member since 2016 · 6k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    6y

    @Henry Lazerow I don't come to BP to push my business stream. My business is fine. The market in the entire US is not hot because of owner-occupants, but yeah, they are overpaying right now - that's a good point. But I never said that the Bros were the only reason for anything.

    The forums are at least 15% flex. Then there are probably 25% of posts that are just re-asking the same question that has been asked a million times. So, coming in hot on some topics is meant to help. I think when people take offense to Bro Investor hyperbole, they may be a little too close to the source.

    It's basically fact-based satire for a change instead of reading about another deal falling apart because someone ran into it too quickly.

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  • Jonathan GreeneBusiness Member
    OP
    Real Estate Consultant · Madison, NJ · Member since 2016 · 6k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    6y

    An apology to Bro Investor:

    I'm really sorry you were hurt by this post. It's true, all investors are doing a great job. They are also super amazing people, all of them, in every market. Wholesaling has a pristine reputation and everyone should feel welcome to just start now, with no experience, no skills, and just a wee bit of capital. I mean, we are all in this together.

    Every response to every post should be upbeat and chipper because no one on BP ever asks a stupid question or one that has been answered over 1,000 times just in the last week. No one on here is ever slinging their coaching or their company or their new deal flow, no one would ever do that because it's only allowed in one part of the forums and everyone is a nice person.

    I'm also really sorry that you find satire to be an aggressive and negative attack on your manhood. I know you lift, bro, it's cool. Let's make the biggest sandbox in the world and all build a house together in it. 

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    11Reply
  • Henry Lazerow
    Real Estate Agent · Chicago, IL · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    6y

    Your negative posts are great PR for your company. Good luck with your Streamlined Properties business or should I say "bro properties" business. 

    11Reply
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