I've been on these Forums for well over a decade and I've got to tell ya'll that there is a serious culture problem among "investors" around here. This morning I read a reply from a new investor in another thread called FlipSystem by Antoine Martel that is the zeitgeist of this cultural problem among investors around here.
Irrelevant to the topic of that thread being about FlipSystem and Antoine Martel, I want to focus on the set of balls and lack of shame on the poster for the way he treated the Real Estate Agent that he hired. Perfect example of entitlement, lack of accountability for his own actions, and the shameless way he had no problem hiring someone to do a job and then not paying them for said job. This kind of behavior is a problem and seems all too common among investors around here.
For some reason new investors think they can come on here and trash every Agent, Property Manager, Contractor, Lender, Title Company etc.... and then they can operate with impunity while stealing time and money from them. The lack of respect for people "working" as service providers in the real estate industry is nuts.
Below is his post in full and my original response to it............
Thoughts??????
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Max Schulman
Replied about 2 hours ago
@Jay Hinrichs. And all. Just wanted to finally write the post I said I would after I completed my one and only retail flip through flipsystem.
Unfortunately for me, Jay, you were right. Retail flipping homes is high risk.
Recap - I joined FS in 2023 with intent to flip many and generate more $ to invest with. started in cleveland market with no luck and switched to cincinnati market (where I live).
Bought off market 3/2 cape cod for $102k in cash 10/2023. Seller wouldnt turn on Utilities so couldnt check major items. Rehab estimated at $63K. ARV of $210-$215k. So it appeared to be a solid deal.
Well, there were many costs that just piled up over the rehab timing. like, drain lines that needed clearing, a water leak, having to switch to a 3/1.5 due to the odd layout. replacing AC unit (not factored into above rehab number), replacing Furnace (not factored), replacing roof) not factored, demoing and painting basement (not factored).
Time also played a factor as the contractor was not good. Lucky though for me I am local and could go over and check all items after complete. I had to tell him many times to fix items.
Rehab started OCT but didn't finish until JUNE 8 mo later! GC said 4 months initially.
By June i'm at $183k spent. I used HELOC so interest only payments continue.
Staged and listed and got a Ton of attention. Excitement was high. Accepted offer for asking $210K. Inspection back with whole slew of items. Buyer wanted $15k in items/credits, I denied as there was so much attention I thought for sure I could find a better offer. Back on market and lots of showings but no offers until mid July (cash institutional buyer) Offer of $204K but they wanted $20K in reduction after inspection.
Meanwhile I replaced roof (many buyers kept mentioning it so vs doing credit for same amount I just replaced) so total spend up to $188k with HELOC juice and half year tax payment.
More showings, dropped list price to $204K , no offers until 10/2024, $204K but again wanted many repairs and the aluminum branch wiring was the exit reason due to "insurance".
At this point I am not happy with agent (Do not recommend Howard Hannah) and I ask to release contract as I need to drop price and their commission is keeping me from profit. Well, they said sorry bud you signed a 12MO contract (lesson again learned to not ever signed an agent contract for 12mo) and they wouldnt release me so I just rode it out until contract was over.
I list FSBO in JAN 2025 through Homecoin(great site) $179500 offer came in a few days after list for list. Inspection requests were minimal but they wanted closing costs paid so it went through and sold in FEB.
All in $190K and came home with $165K. So $25K lesson learned. (I did not want to BRRRR or sell turnkey I just wanted out as I was afraid the bad rehab was going to cost me long run)
After all this, If I could have advised my self before getting into flipsystem, I would have said, Do not do this. I would have said, go to your local Real estate chapter and ask the leaders who in the group is the best at what you are trying to do in your area. Connect with that person or persons and offer to pay them to learn it all or try your best to learn from the RE meetings. They might offer up the knowledge for less than you'd think. I do get it thought that the point of FS is to not have to do any of that (education, finding people, finding teams, vetting teams, etc) and just have it done for you asap.
What do I think of Flipsystem? The education and calls were good, the team they told me to "trust" in my market was bad. Maybe it's just me and my experience in Cincinnati though as I cant say anything about the teams in other markets. I do see though, if the teams were better in my market FS would be a good program.
Did I take on too big a project for my first retail flip? I think so, but the FS team led me to believe I could make it happen.
Did I learn valuable lessons, absolutely. Should I have listened to @Jay Hinrichs absolutely LOL.
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James Wise
#4 All Forums Contributor
- Real Estate Broker
- Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH
Replied 16 minutes ago
Opinions on the Flip System program aside, it's pretty wild to me that you have no shame in working that Howard Hannah Agent as hard as you did without paying them a penny even though they got you a ton of interest and multiple offers. Seems like the only reason the deal didn't close is because you were too cheap to do a proper rehab. Then you have the balls to trash them and try to weasel out of your contract with them. This type of bush league behavior needs to be called out for the trash that it is.
