All Forum Posts by: John Clark

Short answer: don’t be an idiot. Long answer: no, and don’t be an idiot. Education answer: did you notice that some of the people encouraging you to invest out of state with no experience at all work on commission which they receive at sale, not when you succeed?

First, you might not even like being a landlord.

second , real estate is too illiquid an investment for someone who doesn’t know the territory, the laws, or who he is dealing with, at any level.

stay hyper local your first several iterations of investing. Invest locally with someone you trust personally. Get your head examined if anyone tells you otherwise. Have people met success doing otherwise? Sure. People have also walked away unscathed from a front seat position in a high speed head in collision without a seatbelt or airbag, too.

1 Vote

Allentown, Pennsylvania

You don't. You simply don't invest where you can't look at what you're getting into. Real estate is too ill-liquid an investment to buy without looking at it first and thoroughly inspecting and investigating the area and the specific property.

0 Votes

Quote from @Brian J Allen:

This summer, Jack’s Abby Brewing of Framingham acquired Wormtown Brewing of Worcester, marking another step in the ongoing consolidation of the microbrewing industry in Massachusetts. Wormtown has built a strong brand, with its beer recognized beyond the local region.

However, this merger raises questions about the challenges of doing business in Worcester. If Wormtown is better off brewing its beer in Framingham, a key factor could be Worcester’s commercial tax rate. The dual tax rate in Worcester has been a deterrent for businesses, and this merger serves as yet another example of its impact.

From a financial perspective, the numbers are clear. Worcester’s commercial tax rate stands at $30.04 per $1,000 in property value, compared to Framingham’s significantly lower rate of $11.94. On top of that, Wormtown was being charged approximately $115,000 in personal property taxes for its equipment, in addition to rent and likely a portion of a triple-net lease.

By moving manufacturing operations to Framingham, Jack’s Abby can increase capacity without incurring additional taxes or equipment costs. Given the tax disparity, choosing Framingham over Worcester makes clear economic sense.

Interestingly, Worcester has a lower cost of residential rents and likely lower labor costs than Framingham, yet its business tax policies continue to push manufacturers out. This trend is reinforcing Worcester’s evolution into a bedroom community for towns with more favorable business climates to the east.

On the bright side, Jack’s Abby has announced plans to expand Wormtown’s taproom on Shrewsbury Street, including outdoor seating. While this is great news for local beer enthusiasts, it underscores the irony that Worcester residents will be enjoying beer brewed in Framingham—largely due to Worcester’s tax structure.

So long as the water doesn't come from Back Bay. . .

0 Votes

Worcester, Massachusetts

Quote from @Kyle Reedstrom:

I have a lot of new construction homes in my area. Many of them have no transaction history. How do I find out what the price was of these homes when they were built and closed with the 1st owners? AKA I want to find out the original price the houses started at?

Context: I am a Real Estate agent and we are conducting a marketing campaign to show people how much their homes have appreciated in value. In order to have that number, we need the original price the home closed at.

Look at the deed on line. Specifically, look at the tax stamps affixed to the deed. The tax stamps are set at $X per $Y of purchase price, often per $500 or $1,000 of purchase price. From the amount spent on tax stamps and the transaction tax rate, you can find the original purchase price.

0 Votes

Fargo, North Dakota

Quote from @Michael Lynch:

Thanks Guys! ..... I really appreciate it.

Make sure you check local/county/state limits on screening. Some places don’t allow criminal records checks outside of various charges/times, others refuse to permit eviction checks, others have limits on income criteria. Remember, you are landlord scum, not innocent, misunderstood, virginal, tenants.

0 Votes

Coastal NC, North Carolina

My alderman has a blanket prohibition on short term rentals. I asked him about excepting owner occupied single family homes, and he said it’s just too difficult to enforce. The cheaters have ruined it for everyone.

0 Votes

Quote from @Roy Nackar:

Hey BiggerPockets community!

My name is Roy, and I'm excited to introduce myself. I'm a rookie out-of-state real estate investor currently immersing myself in BiggerPockets videos, podcasts, and books. I'm also enrolled in a BRRRR-focused mentorship program to help get started.

I'm currently based out-of-state but am focused on investing in the Columbus, OH MSA market. My primary goal over the next three months is to acquire my first long-term single-family rental property there.

Longer-term, I aim to steadily grow my portfolio using strategies like BRRRR and potentially flips, with a focus on long-term rentals. My ultimate goal isn't necessarily vast wealth, but achieving financial freedom and security through real estate. Networking with experienced local investors, agents, property managers, and contractors in the Columbus area is also a key objective for me right now.

I've received some cautionary feedback about investing there. For those of you familiar with the area, I'd appreciate your insights: What potential challenges or specific downsides should a new out-of-state investor be particularly aware of in the current Columbus market? I'm eager to understand any perspectives I might be missing.

Thanks for having me! I'm looking forward to learning from and connecting with you all.

You say that you're new to out-of-state investing, but you don't say what your experience actually is. Have you been investing in your locale for the last ten years? Are you jumping in to the entire landlord thing with out of state investing?

Drop your I-want-to-be-invested-in X-days mentality. You are investing in property and neighborhoods (and people), not calendars.

Now, how much experience do you have, what got you into BRRRR, what is your target neighborhood characteristics, and all the other facts people need to know in order to make intelligent decisions about how to help you?

1 Vote

Quote from @Andrew Syrios:

Quote from @James Wise:

I've been on these Forums for well over a decade and I've got to tell ya'll that there is a serious culture problem among "investors" around here. This morning I read a reply from a new investor in another thread called FlipSystem by Antoine Martel that is the zeitgeist of this cultural problem among investors around here.

Irrelevant to the topic of that thread being about FlipSystem and Antoine Martel, I want to focus on the set of balls and lack of shame on the poster for the way he treated the Real Estate Agent that he hired. Perfect example of entitlement, lack of accountability for his own actions, and the shameless way he had no problem hiring someone to do a job and then not paying them for said job. This kind of behavior is a problem and seems all too common among investors around here.

For some reason new investors think they can come on here and trash every Agent, Property Manager, Contractor, Lender, Title Company etc.... and then they can operate with impunity while stealing time and money from them. The lack of respect for people "working" as service providers in the real estate industry is nuts.

Below is his post in full and my original response to it............

Thoughts??????

________

Max Schulman

Investor
Cincinnati, OH

Replied about 2 hours ago

@Jay Hinrichs. And all. Just wanted to finally write the post I said I would after I completed my one and only retail flip through flipsystem.

Unfortunately for me, Jay, you were right. Retail flipping homes is high risk.

Recap - I joined FS in 2023 with intent to flip many and generate more $ to invest with. started in cleveland market with no luck and switched to cincinnati market (where I live).

Bought off market 3/2 cape cod for $102k in cash 10/2023. Seller wouldnt turn on Utilities so couldnt check major items. Rehab estimated at $63K. ARV of $210-$215k. So it appeared to be a solid deal.

Well, there were many costs that just piled up over the rehab timing. like, drain lines that needed clearing, a water leak, having to switch to a 3/1.5 due to the odd layout. replacing AC unit (not factored into above rehab number), replacing Furnace (not factored), replacing roof) not factored, demoing and painting basement (not factored).

Time also played a factor as the contractor was not good. Lucky though for me I am local and could go over and check all items after complete. I had to tell him many times to fix items.

Rehab started OCT but didn't finish until JUNE 8 mo later! GC said 4 months initially.

By June i'm at $183k spent. I used HELOC so interest only payments continue.

Staged and listed and got a Ton of attention. Excitement was high. Accepted offer for asking $210K. Inspection back with whole slew of items. Buyer wanted $15k in items/credits, I denied as there was so much attention I thought for sure I could find a better offer. Back on market and lots of showings but no offers until mid July (cash institutional buyer) Offer of $204K but they wanted $20K in reduction after inspection.

Meanwhile I replaced roof (many buyers kept mentioning it so vs doing credit for same amount I just replaced) so total spend up to $188k with HELOC juice and half year tax payment.

More showings, dropped list price to $204K , no offers until 10/2024, $204K but again wanted many repairs and the aluminum branch wiring was the exit reason due to "insurance".

At this point I am not happy with agent (Do not recommend Howard Hannah) and I ask to release contract as I need to drop price and their commission is keeping me from profit. Well, they said sorry bud you signed a 12MO contract (lesson again learned to not ever signed an agent contract for 12mo) and they wouldnt release me so I just rode it out until contract was over.

I list FSBO in JAN 2025 through Homecoin(great site) $179500 offer came in a few days after list for list. Inspection requests were minimal but they wanted closing costs paid so it went through and sold in FEB.

All in $190K and came home with $165K. So $25K lesson learned. (I did not want to BRRRR or sell turnkey I just wanted out as I was afraid the bad rehab was going to cost me long run)

After all this, If I could have advised my self before getting into flipsystem, I would have said, Do not do this. I would have said, go to your local Real estate chapter and ask the leaders who in the group is the best at what you are trying to do in your area. Connect with that person or persons and offer to pay them to learn it all or try your best to learn from the RE meetings. They might offer up the knowledge for less than you'd think. I do get it thought that the point of FS is to not have to do any of that (education, finding people, finding teams, vetting teams, etc) and just have it done for you asap.

What do I think of Flipsystem? The education and calls were good, the team they told me to "trust" in my market was bad. Maybe it's just me and my experience in Cincinnati though as I cant say anything about the teams in other markets. I do see though, if the teams were better in my market FS would be a good program.

Did I take on too big a project for my first retail flip? I think so, but the FS team led me to believe I could make it happen.

Did I learn valuable lessons, absolutely. Should I have listened to @Jay Hinrichs absolutely LOL.

________

James Wise

#4 All Forums Contributor

Real Estate Broker
Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH

Replied 16 minutes ago

Opinions on the Flip System program aside, it's pretty wild to me that you have no shame in working that Howard Hannah Agent as hard as you did without paying them a penny even though they got you a ton of interest and multiple offers. Seems like the only reason the deal didn't close is because you were too cheap to do a proper rehab. Then you have the balls to trash them and try to weasel out of your contract with them. This type of bush league behavior needs to be called out for the trash that it is.

This line here "I need to drop price and their commission is keeping me from profit" made me laugh out loud. Bro, the market doesn't care about your profit margin and not buying a good enough deal doesn't mean you can just boot your agent after having signed a listing agreement.

That being said, I don't really see BiggerPockets creating this sort of attitude. That seems to be more of guru thing. BP posters (at least from what I've seen) more often than not, seem pretty good at managing unrealistic expectations and telling people they need to live up to their word. At least, that's what I've seen for the most part.

“Managing unrealistic expectations?” I suggest you start counting the postings to the effect of -contact me I got great leads in x” to people who are explicitly newbies who want to invest out of state for reasons that scream that they cannot handle the situation (per the odds) , This place screams shills working on commission to unload dreck.

2 Votes

And “ms. Lori” is one of how many thousands of rehabbers/flippers/brokers/mentors . . .

BTW, how far does this “this time” caveat go?

0 Votes

While I agree about greedy, stupid, I'm-never-at-fault buyers coming here and trashing mentors/agents/teams/etc., I have yet to hear of a mentor/agent/team/etc. turning an investor down and saying "No, you're not ready."

A pox on both their houses.

3 Votes

All Forum Posts by: John Clark

John Clark has started 5 posts and replied 1397 times.

Post: Out of State For First Property?

Post: How do you vet a market when you can’t visit in person?

Post: Wormtown Merger Reveals Harsh Truth About Worcester’s Tax Structure

Post: How do I look up the original build prices of homes in my neighborhood?

Post: Best way or how to properly do a background check?

Post: Chicago STRs: Underrated, Less Competitive, and Still Profitable

Post: New Out-of-State Investor Targeting Columbus, OH

Post: Does Bigger Pockets facilitate a Culture of Trash Individuals???

Post: Does Bigger Pockets facilitate a Culture of Trash Individuals???

Post: Does Bigger Pockets facilitate a Culture of Trash Individuals???