All Forum Posts by: Joel Colvos

Hey Sorry, my ferry was coming in and I had to get off and couldn't finish my thought.  Kitsap County does an annual list of impending tax foreclosures.  I've been too busy this year to follow, but its always interesting.  The few that I know about directly have a mixed bag of stories, after all who would have an expensive house paid off then get it foreclosed on because of small real estate taxes.  Most listings fall off the list before the December deadline, but I'm always fascinated by what people pick up for cheap.  You can see the results here

http://www.kitsapgov.com/treas/Treasurers_Auction/...

It would be a good start just to drive around and check out some of these, do your homework and find out what is going on.  Some of them pop up every year only to go off at last minute every year, a bunch of them are junk that nobody wants, some are isolated, a huge mixed bag with lots of pitfalls.

I'm hoping to follow more next year but already have a few on my radar.

you know, tax forcloure vs bank forcloure. It's what all the cool Kitsap kids are into these days.  I would send you a link but my ferry is just pulling in.

how broad is your market? Are you including Bremerton,  Olalla, Manchester,  etc? For signage you have a huge advantage because of traffic choke points.  It's a Peninsula ya know? Only a few ways in and out, target areas near the ferries.  Im not totally sure what you are going after but have you considered direct mail to property owners that are in tax forcloure? 90% get out before the auction (which was a few weeks ago) but clearly solid leads for people that want out or are having some issues. 

This is where it comes down to dollars and sense and I wish I had a clear answer.  We have been involved enough in lawsuits in the past that I know I want to avoid them at all costs, but the county is putting our backs against the wall and I'm running out of options.  I don't want to just fade away and let this happen to others in the future.

There really isn't anything else we could have done short of getting a full septic plan approval before closing on the property, and if that were the case then buying property would be so cost prohibitive and time prohibitive that nobody would do it.  Imagine asking for a 6 month escrow period to study septic conditions, it just wouldn't happen on a small real estate deal like this.

I wish we knew who dropped the ball here, it seems part of the problem is that the rules are somewhat subjective and because the county makes developers work through a third party it makes it all that much more convoluted.  How do you measure a setback from a lake?  When it's the middle of dry season? When its the middle of a flood episode?  All of the septic planners say we should look at the change in aquatic plants to determine the average high water level, however the county seems to have a different idea.  We have had three of the eighteen certified septic planners all tell us its fine, only to have the County come back and tell us its not.  Very frustrating.

There were no conditions for approval in the initial approval.  

We have been playing nice with the county since clearly we still need to work with them on this.  Once we have exhausted all options we will do a freedom of information request with our lawyer and hopefully get to the core of this problem.

In our area there are many variables with setbacks.  If you are building new construction it is something like 200 feet.  However if you are replacing an existing septic system the setbacks become much closer.  In our case they were going to give us a smaller setback because we were going to replace an existing outhouse, essentially we would be getting a permit for a septic remodel rather than a new system.

However after buying the property the Health Dept says we are now too close to the lake.  I'm guessing that the initial approval was a mistake and that the setbacks for replacing a septic system were originally applied when different standards for replacing an outhouse should have been applied.  It's very difficult to get info on this from the County and they buffer themselves by making applicants work through one of their certified septic planners rather than working with them directly.

Keep in mind that we have met in person with the County to try to work this out and they made very sure that the original employee that approved our initial application was not allowed in the meeting.  If that does not set off your BS detector, then I don't know what would.

The advice of our lawyer and our three different septic planners is to continue to play nice and try to work it out.  But it is $1500+ per application with no hope of resolution is getting old.  They are asking us to jump through hoops that they know we will fail.

I'm sorry if I'm not doing a good job explaining this, clearly its convoluted and we don't have all of the answers ourselves.

Thanks JD,

We have been at this for over a year now so we have met directly with the Health Dept and have had a long chain of direct communication.  The issue is the setback from the lake which is different for new construction vs existing construction.  I honestly think that they may have just made a mistake with their initial approval, but its difficult to say.  Regardless we are the ones left holding the bag.

The only solution that has been offered from the county is to buy the neighbors property and have the septic go several hundred yards uphill to a separate drain field which also includes buying an easement from a third party.  As you can imagine this scenario costs several times the amount of the initial investment.  Frankly it's a little ridiculous and very cost prohibitive.

We don't want to sue, but we are running out of options.

thanks Jay,

I am between a rock and a hard place for sure.  It would have been time challenging and cost prohibitive to get a full approval during escrow.  The proximity to the lake has not changed since the initial approval and that is what is at issue now.  My lawyer assures me that in his 35 years he has never seen them flip like this.

 I'm not expecting them to roll over on the permits, it would open them up to too much other litigation.  But I have a feeling that there is more to this story than what they are letting on.  

Last year we purchased a cabin in Kitsap County near Seattle with the intention of using it as a part time short term vacation rental.  It is a lakefront property which comes with septic challenges and the original neglected cabin had only an outhouse.  

We looked at several properties prior to this and specifically rejected several because of water and septic issues/utility issues.  In order to get septic approval the County Health Dept requires that we use one of their 'certified septic planners' to do a site visit, take measurements, dig test holes etc.  Our original septic planner worked it out with the county and came up with a basic septic plan and we got initial approval for septic before buying the property.

Unfortunately after we purchased the property the county has continued to reject our septic plans.  We have now hired three different septic planners (of only 18 certified by the county) and all have come up with plans that they say should work and all have been rejected by the county.

Without an operable septic system our property is deemed 'recreational' and is clearly worth a lot less than what we paid for it.  We have talked with a RE attorney in our target area and he has assured us that we have a strong case against the county.  

Just wondering if anyone out there has been in any similar situations?  We are not looking forward to a lawsuit but we are quickly running out of options.

 Hi Julie,

We are pretty set up for Seattle/King County.  This is more of a Kitsap issue that we need help with in dealing with the Kitsap Health Dept.