All Forum Posts by: Joe Gee

@Jay Hinrichs Such an interesting and profitable niche! I listened to your podcast awhile back and was blown away by what you have accomplished.  A few months back, I was getting calls from sellers who had wooded lots within the city limits. I thought about using this approach but didn't dig too deep cause the lots were small (60 x 120) and it seemed like the profit margins weren't there.  Even though the land itself was cheap. 

However my girlfriend's grandparents recently bought 80 acres in MS and they used the timber on the land to pay for 40 acres of it.  I believe their intention is to keep the land and build a house to retire in. 

Thank you for the kind and motivating words @Shawn Ackerman.  And to others who provided useful feedback.  Initially, I wrote the OP in anger.  After a couple days, and getting feedback from the group made me realize I have to tighten up my game and move on.  I have no ill will towards any parties involved.  I don't like to blame others for what happened to me. I take full responsibility for what happened.  The military taught me that.  I have no excuses.  Just solutions! 

From what I get from the Un-Investor friendly crowd is that its ok to "steal" the seller's equity, so long as you buy it upfront and then market the property once you own it?  Im not being facetious, it's a serious question.  @John Thedford. You want to protect the seller's interest, as you should IF your representing them.  But if they want to sell to an investor who approaches them with a "lowball" offer, and they take it, and they CLOSE on it, are you against that?  I know you're against wholesalers assigning contracts thing, but are you anti good deals too?  Seller is still out of their equity.  How are you going to prevent this from happening?  I'm not saying all investors lowball, but all investors want a good deal let's be honest.  Sounds like you want full control of the market.  I mean hey your spending a ton of time trying to regulate it yourself.  

Look I had the funds to close on this myself.  And I work with a private money lender who used to buy from me but is now semi-retired and wants passive income.      

@Michael Hayworth  So I guess you've closed on every single contract you've had with a seller?  Never had to cancel a contract?  Listen, I don't intend to put a deal under contract and cancel if I can't assign it.  I'll do what I can to make the deal work.  If I have to cancel, then hey it happens.  Im in the legal right to do so if im within my clauses. Sometimes its not a good deal. But I do close on almost every deal I get.  I don't like to waste my time nor the sellers. It's why i've been able to successfully wholesale full time for 5 years and not have something like this happen to me until now.  I got complacent and someone took advantage because I left all my cards on the table.  But thats ok right?  The seller made up a story and asked to get out of the contract. I agreed. I could have held it up until I found another buyer but I didn't. And even if I was going to buy it myself, I probably still would have let him out of the contract.  Im not here to twist arms and make people do anything they don't want to voluntarily do. Im not hiding anything and I definitely don't do this to screw people over.  I understand there are some sh**ty wholesalers out there.  I know a few and I steer clear from them.  

@William Walker

It is my fault to some degree that I trusted this "buyer" with the seller's information. Its why im writing this post so others can protect themselves if dealing with buyers they don't know.  I've done this many times without incident and work with several repeat buyers who I trust.  I didn't think that the "buyer" would call the seller, and they would come up with a plan to lie and get me out of the deal.   Lesson learned.  

I understand some of you are against wholesaling.  I get it.  It is a legal gray area.  But im pretty sure the lawyers and title companies I work with wouldn't be risking their licenses to work on these deals if they weren't legal.  

Maybe I should have posted in the most popular real estate strategy, the wholesaling thread that BiggerPockets offers to its members. I probably would have gotten better support instead of criticism on how I should invest in real estate.  Maybe we'll report them too for offering a platform for this kind of disgusting "garbage" behavior. 

Thanks to the members who did offer some advice.  Much appreciated. 

@John Thedford

Boasts about wholesaling?  Where do you get that from?  If you're anti-wholesaling, maybe you shouldn't respond to my post.  You're no help.  

Oh and since you think so highly of licensed agents, this buyer so happen to be one.  Just cause your licensed doesn't mean you're ethical.  

I had a contract with the seller.  Put it out there and found a willing buyer that I've never worked with.  We signed an assignment contract and I gave him a copy of the contract.  I always feel funny about giving a new buyer I don't know the actual contract, but they need it because it is the contract they are taking over so I guess I have no choice (unless someone can give a tip how to handle this for the future.)  

The buyer then told me that he wanted to get a conventional loan for the property.  I told him since im wholesaling it, I only deal in cash.  He tried to see if he could get the money together but was unsuccessful.  So after a couple days, me and the buyer cancelled the contract. 

Couple days later, I get a text from the seller.  He wanted to get out of the contract cause of tax purposes and plus his wife just got a promotion at work so now they are able to afford to keep it.  My inspection was about to run out and I still haven't found a back up buyer, so I thought Ok i'll cancel the contract and move on.  

Well lo and behold, a few months later I check the assessors office and find the buyers name I was dealing with as the new owner's name.   

I technically do not have any legal recourse since I cancelled the contracts, but its a down right shady move.  I've had this happen only one other time in almost 5 years of wholesaling and it was when I first started out.  

Should I start whiting out the seller's information on the contract before I give it to the end buyer?  

I guess this is what I get for being nice...

Hi David. For me its more of do I keep mailing to a list of owners whom I've never spoken to (because they've sold or another reason) or do I just buy a new updated list and work with that.  I mailed off recently to an old list and they called and said "we sold that property a year ago!"  I don't really have the time to scrub my lists, so its hard to gauge whether how outdated they are when there's thousands of names.  

Another note I should add is that my response rate on these old lists have dwindled.  I used to get 3-3.5% response 3 years ago and now I'll be lucky to get 1%. Market has shot up in my area so theres more competition. 

Thanks for your input. I've been doing more of that as well. 

Hello, 

I've been wholesaling properties for about 4 years now. I still have lists from when I started. I haven't been as consistent with my mailing as I should be.  I know there are possible leads still in those lists, but also alot of activity has happened since then, and sellers had sold off.  

Any advice as to when to get a new list to mail?  Or should I just work the ones I bought 3-4 years ago?  

Thanks