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All Forum Posts by: Jay Y.

Jay Y. has started 5 posts and replied 146 times.

Post: share your turnkey experiences

Jay Y.Posted
  • Investor
  • Santa Clara , CA
  • Posts 155
  • Votes 144

@Pete Tam

Here is my own experience, having started just over a year ago.

Out of state investing is initially nerve racking and scary. You don't know who you can trust, and you are paranoid about EVERYTHING. The most common question you'll keep asking yourself over and over again is, "How do I know I'm not being scammed?"

I was tired of asking myself that question, so finally decided to JUST DO IT! You don't have to get into contract with anyone, but start your due diligence by making a trip out there. If you aren't willing to fly out to meet and greet the turnkey companies, then how serious are you really? Airfare and hotel costs are a drop in the bucket in the grand scheme of things. So, go out there and do your research. Meet the local team and go out on a property tour. Check out properties in various stages of rehab, and get a good feel for the scope of work they perform. I always ask to see a property that's just been recently acquired, and I want to see more than a few finished products.

While you are on these tours, pay close attention to the surrounding neighborhoods. Ask the seller to take you into a bad part of town so you can compare. Ask the turnkey company to show you a heat map of the areas they buy into, and the ones they avoid. If you want to get a headstart, research these neighborhoods prior to your trip out. Also, take a lot of notes and photos while you are out there.

If you see anything you don't like, walk away. There are too many sellers out there, so don't get into contract with one if anything doesn't feel right. Check your gut...

And don't feel like you have to limit yourself to just one market. If you are going to buy out of state, no matter where you buy it's going to be FAR AWAY from you. This isn't necessarily a bad thing. No single market will have everything you are looking for, anyway, so why not diversify geographically to mitigate risk? Go here for cash flow, go there for job/population growth. Go elsewhere for appreciation, etc. That way you don't put all your eggs into one basket... or turnkey company. When I buy stocks, I don't only purchase companies headquartered in a single state...

Once you've done your research, I've found that closing an out of state rental is pretty straightforward. Definitely a lot easier than buying locally since you won't have to deal with buyer/seller agents. Since I'm in California, it's also nice being able to buy without having to engage in bidding wars!! :) Most turnkeys work with preferred lenders, so I've always just gone ahead and used those. The preferred lenders know the routine, and I'm guessing this makes the whole process go a lot smoother. In one market I invest, the systems are all in place, and I've never even run into any appraisal problems... They have all the appropriate comps targeted... Again, if the cash on cash return makes sense for me, I don't care how much the turnkey companies make, or even if the appraisals are "rigged" somehow.

Anyway, I think you should take baby steps when starting out. Do your research first. If things look good, plan on making a trip out there... If things still look promising, start with buying one property. Get your feet wet before you back the truck up...

After one year, I will say that my experiences have been very positive. As many have stated, it's ultimately the PM that you have in place that will make or break you. The PMs I work with are very responsive, and I communicate with them probably twice a week. There's a web portal I have access to so that I can see any expenses/rent payments/owner statements coming in, and the status of any repairs, work orders. It's all very transparent, and so far I haven't been nickel or dimed for anything... But agian, just one year in, so we'll see how that adjusts over time...

So far, no scams and I've been collecting rent checks every month. :) Surprisingly, the pro formas provided were reasonable, and actual returns have been pretty close... In one market, I'm actually seeing higher than advertised (rent came in higher and the utility bill lower). But again, just year one, so we'll see if/when the honeymoon phase ends... I'm cautiously optimistic...

If you or anyone wants more specifics, let me know, or PM me...

Post: share your turnkey experiences

Jay Y.Posted
  • Investor
  • Santa Clara , CA
  • Posts 155
  • Votes 144

@Jay Hinrichs Yes, that would make for an interesting case study, but I won't be the one volunteering to do that! ;)

Every investor has to come up with their own sets of strategies, and for me (right now), I just don't want to buy anything where I start out cash flow negative... Because it could be 1,3,5, or more years before I get back to breaking even... If I had 'play money' to throw around (what a good problem to have), sure, why not? But if I'm cash flow negative for a few years, then another market crash hits and I lose my job, I am SCREWED big time...

With the turnkeys, I really do treat them as buy and hold. They are my dividend stocks that just cash flow... hopefully for a long time. I'm not trying to make a quick buck off them (TSLA), and I realize that selling them back on the MLS anytime soon would lose me money... As long as they pay me my 10%+ dividend and I get principal paydown I'm good with just holding :)

Also, it's worth noting that not everyone starting out has a warchest to work with... Building up an income stream is a great way to get started in REI... And these Midwest properties provide an affordable, low barrier to entry starting point.

Growth stocks and dividend stocks don't mix, according to many... but I'm going to try, anyway...

Post: share your turnkey experiences

Jay Y.Posted
  • Investor
  • Santa Clara , CA
  • Posts 155
  • Votes 144

There probably is a lot more that goes on behind the scenes when buying turnkeys than most starting out realize... I own a few turnkeys in different markets, so I've seen many things firsthand...

@Jay Hinrichs is absolutely right about the markup... I think $3k is way too low, and not many companies would be in this line of business if that's all they got back in return... I only have to look at my final HUD on a few of these purchases to see how much the marketing companies get for each property they sell me! Jay's numbers are not far off... in some markets, they get an even larger cut...

If you work with a marketer (you don't have to!) and they get paid that much, you would have to assume that the seller makes just as much, and probably a lot more. You are most definitely paying market, if not over market for a turnkey property. Appraisals are problematic for many turnkeys, I'm sure...

Still, in spite of all that, for investors who live in really expensive cities, surprisingly, the cash flow numbers can still work out for your bottom line. I also own properties in the Bay Area that I purchased in 2012 (rock bottom prices compared to today) and they don't cash flow anywhere near as good as my turnkeys (which I purchased as the market started to rebound and I got priced out of my local market)... even with all the markup.

So, if you can't find deals locally, turnkeys can be worthwhile. I would just never hold my breath on counting on any future appreciation from them... But you can always adapt and use multiple strategies; be flexible as an investor! For instance, if the Bay Area corrects again, there's no way I would be buying any more turnkeys. The best markets will get you insane appreciation and good cash flow... You just have to be ready when those opportunities come around, though... The window closes way too fast!

Post: share your turnkey experiences

Jay Y.Posted
  • Investor
  • Santa Clara , CA
  • Posts 155
  • Votes 144

I buy local and turnkey. I own properties in Chicago and Indianapolis. @Account Closed has some great tips there, and I also believe in geographical diversification (through different sellers). If you get burned in one market, you won't have all your properties there... Just treat real estate like you would with building a stock portfolio.

If you want the full scoop, send me a PM.

Post: Newbie from Buena Park, CA

Jay Y.Posted
  • Investor
  • Santa Clara , CA
  • Posts 155
  • Votes 144

Welcome @Chris M. from another California investor!

Post: Help with Investing in Real Estate

Jay Y.Posted
  • Investor
  • Santa Clara , CA
  • Posts 155
  • Votes 144

@Kristy Boone I've lived in Orange County... yeah, that area isn't very cheap ;)

You mentioned that the locations are not great (and the properties themselves which means even more $$$), so my first thought would be, why not find a better cash flow property in a good location that isn't as expensive?

You can still do that in California, maybe you'd have to search more inland... For $300k downpayment (that's a lot of change), you can probably find a $1MM commercial apartment building that has 15+ units.

Let's say you can locate 8% return, that would be $24k/year, or $2000/month in cash flow. To me, that sounds way better than negative cash flow! Especially for such a large downpayment...

The appreciation angle can work... but I would only consider that in a fantastic location (Class A) where I felt 100% assured it would come to fruition.

For $300k, I'd take the cash flow and try and get in to a good (but cheaper) location. If the appreciation were to still happen in the future, that would just be gravy.

Post: Newbie from California

Jay Y.Posted
  • Investor
  • Santa Clara , CA
  • Posts 155
  • Votes 144

@Mussa Kiroga Welcome from another Bay Area investor!

Post: Help with Investing in Real Estate

Jay Y.Posted
  • Investor
  • Santa Clara , CA
  • Posts 155
  • Votes 144

@Kristy Boone It depends on your strategy and what it is you're looking for. Are you holding out for appreciation? If you are buying in the Bay Area, I would imagine so in today's market...

Post: San Francisco Meetup - Thursday 4/10/14

Jay Y.Posted
  • Investor
  • Santa Clara , CA
  • Posts 155
  • Votes 144

@Yuliany W. Thanks for the invite! I'll try and make it out one of these days...

Post: Investing Out of State

Jay Y.Posted
  • Investor
  • Santa Clara , CA
  • Posts 155
  • Votes 144

@Nam Nguyen

Welcome to BP! I'm also from the Bay Area and invest out of state. It's more difficult, of course, but possible. Feel free to reach out if you want more info.