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All Forum Posts by: Ivan Oberon

Ivan Oberon has started 27 posts and replied 114 times.

Post: National RE Investor Coverage versus the local branch of my insurance company

Ivan OberonPosted
  • Real Estate Investor
  • Camarillo, CA
  • Posts 119
  • Votes 41

Hi Sean,

Glad to see you are working through this as every situation is unique and different.

I know we have spoken at length about many things so I will just make 1 comment in regards to the "name."

NREIG is not the insurance carrier or insurer.  The insurers are actually A+ rated global carriers like Lloyds of London, Firemans Fund, Allianz, etc.. So actually stronger names than State Farm and the other more standard personal lines carriers out there.

Hope that helps. 

Ivan

Post: Los Angeles Insurance Provider

Ivan OberonPosted
  • Real Estate Investor
  • Camarillo, CA
  • Posts 119
  • Votes 41

...

Post: Looking for nationwide insurance company to cover my out of state rental property

Ivan OberonPosted
  • Real Estate Investor
  • Camarillo, CA
  • Posts 119
  • Votes 41
Originally posted by @Anja Brey:

Hi @Account Closed

I actually got a quote from them and it seems reasonable, but I checked on Bigger Pockets and there are two forum posts on them and it made me wonder. What are your friends experiences with them? Did they have any claims? 
Thanks, 
Anja

 The reality is that almost all companies, large and small, will at some point be faced with a situation that may not appear favorable.  By and large, these are the things you hear about because the "satisfied" rarely make it a practice to shout praises.  

NREIG is the leader in real estate risk management solutions for investors on a nationwide basis, insuring any property under any stage of occupancy or renovation.  They service more than 43,000 investor locations nationwide and with very minor exception, have very satisfied customers.  So much so that a great majority of their continued business growth comes simply via personal referrals. 

Ivan

Post: Umbrella Insurance

Ivan OberonPosted
  • Real Estate Investor
  • Camarillo, CA
  • Posts 119
  • Votes 41
Originally posted by @Account Closed:

Finally found a company ( Nautilus Insurance) that will write me a stand alone umbrella for 1 mil with having about 20 properties. Still debating because the price of 732.00 was a little higher than expected.

And still need to check what it is going to cost to raise my Auto policy from Bodily injury of 300K to the required 500K

This would be in addition to the 1 mil I already have on each property

Any opinions

Thanks

There are a few issues to consider here, chief among them is probably how you separate what are considered "business" activities and liabilities from your personal liabilities and activities.

The IRS considers anything which generates income for you a Business activity. It is irrelevant whether you own the property in your personal name, an LLC, Corp or Trust, etc...

The vast majority of insurance people out there do not understand this because the majority of them are not active investors themselves and because of this, provide incorrect information and either inferior products and in many cases, based on my experience, the absolutely incorrect product altogether. This puts their clients and themselves at risk.

Coverage for your rental properties needs to be written on a commercial form, underwritten as a tenant occupied dwelling and at least $1,000,000 in liability. You want to look for the flexibility to not be subject to Co-Insurance requirements or minimum earned premiums and varying choices in deductibles and coverage forms. You also want to be able to switch coverage on the fly between a property being vacant, occupied or under renovation as sometimes you might experience a longer vacancy than expected during a turn or have to do a more major renovation after many years.

Also, all "personal" policies and "personal umbrella" policies have what is called a "Total Pollution Exclusion." Many commercial policy forms allow you to "buy back" coverage for at least one type of "pollutant" that is pertinent to landlords. This coverage will offer defense and claims settlement for alleged or actual injury caused by CO2 emissions from a heating or air conditioning source.

You can add a "personal umbrella" to cover your personal liability exposures of your home and auto, if your net worth justifies it, but you should keep any income producing assets separate from your personal liabilities.

All that being said, it is easy to increase your limit of liability on all of your underline rentals from $1,000,000 to $2,000,000 for about $7/mo/location.  The first million will also run you about this much.  If you need to increase it beyond that, which with 20 properties myself and any asset protection attorney who knows anything about real estate investing will tell you yes, it can be obtained for a pretty inexpensive premium.

I would also suggest working with a company that can handle all of your rentals no matter what state they are in, synchronize your renewals and billing and give you the ability to add or delete locations at will with no new down payments and the security of working with experts who actually understand real estate investing.  Your ease of use and premiums will also be more favorable that way as well.

Hope that helps.

Ivan

Post: Insurance Issues for The Real Estate Investor - CONCLUSION

Ivan OberonPosted
  • Real Estate Investor
  • Camarillo, CA
  • Posts 119
  • Votes 41

CONCLUSION:

If you've stuck with me this far, I congratulate you! You are committed to learning and self improvement.

Here is my basic conclusion to this series:

A key take away of all this is work with an insurance advisor that understands the idiosyncrasies of real estate investing. They can be an independent or a “captive” agent. As long as they have a recognition of the challenges that face your investing endeavors, and have access to a carrier (or carriers) that fill your needs (in conjunction with the strategies discussed here), challenge them to get you the best VALUE for your insurance, not the cheapest rate.

Even better, work with an insurance advisor who is also actually an active investor also and who exclusively represents a company who's products and services were all created by seasoned investors FOR investors and are the nationwide leader in residential risk management solutions FOR investors.

Insurance is a gamble. The insurer is betting you won’t need it, while you bet that you will. With the help of a professional insurance advisor, gain enough knowledge to make cognizant decisions on your specific needs. As part of an asset protection plan, it is vital that you are comfortable with your coverage and protection BEFORE you need it. I sincerely hope all your premium dollars go to waste!

Post: Installment #14 Insurance Issues for The Real Estate Investor - Creative Acquisition Strategies

Ivan OberonPosted
  • Real Estate Investor
  • Camarillo, CA
  • Posts 119
  • Votes 41

"Creative" acquisition strategies, and how to properly protect you and your entity (ies):

Let’s focus now on the very misunderstood issue of how to properly insure a “Subject To” deal.This one is going to be a bit longer but it will be worth it!

The obvious dilemma or concern many investors are worried about is the "Due on Sale" (DOS) clause being invoked and the mortgage company calling the note. Though seemingly complex, some common sense rules-of-thumb usually apply. If you (or your entity) own, or have a financial "stake" in the property, you need to be the "first named insured".

The first named insured is the primary recipient of any potential claim benefit or liability protection. An “additional insured” will garner liability protection only. A “loss payee” will have its interests protected in the event the property itself is damaged. (A mortgagee is inherently BOTH).

Some investors decide the way they will go about it is to keep the existing Homeowners insurance in place and be added as additional insured to that policy.This is a dangerous game you should avoid and here is a reason why.If it is discovered that the ex- owner, the first-named insured in this case, no long

er owns the property, expect the insurer to deny any claim based upon the fact the policyholder no longer owns the property. Even if you manage the claim to be paid, you are not the entity to receive the proceeds, as you are not the first-named insured. If you did attempt to be added as a loss payee as well, chances are the insurer will question the necessity for you being named as such. When the insurer discovers you now own the property, they will need to write a new policy.You could have avoided all of this by doing it the right way from the start, but nobody teaches investors this!

The proper way to insure the property, once you (or your entity) owns it, is to have a non-owner occupied “landlord” policy, with you as the new first named insured. The bank/mortgage company is named, as normal, as mortgagee. The prior owner should be named as the additional insured ONLY. Naming the prior owner?as additional insured will usually keep the mortgage company happy. But, you may ask, why not keep the ex- owners policy in place? One concern of carrying 2 policies on the same property is that most policies have “excess” clauses. In other words, the policy will pay only excess amounts, if any other policy exists. If each of the 2 policies has such a clause it will create havoc in getting a loss paid...

To further clarify the scenario here is a hypothetical example: Property has a “homeowner” and a “landlord” policy (both) on it. Fire occurs. Owner files a claim under the landlord policy. So far, so good.. However, “tenant” (prior owner, or new occupant), has personal property damage. He must also file claim, but against?his “homeowners” or tenants policy. The respective insurance company on each claim is bound to find out of the other policy’s existence and could (more than likely would) attempt to invoke the “excess” clause of its own contract, potentially leaving the owner waiting for courts/arbitration to settle...

I wouldn't take the chance with 2 policies. If an insurer has an opportunity to mitigate, or deny, a loss if there are contractual issues, be sure they'll try! (As an added note, if the prior owner moves out, the "homeowners" policy is no longer valid as the property is now "non-owner-occupied"). Bottom line: if you own it, you insure it. If the fact that a DOS clause is/would be invoked if the insur

ance policy changes, I would walk away before potentially diminishing or even sacrificing coverage by trying to “skirt” the correct way to insure the property. In 12 years, we have yet to have a loan called (knock wood) by insuring the new owner on a “landlord” policy and naming the bank (and the old owner) as mortgagee and additional insured respectively. 

Post: Installment #13 Insurance Issues for The Real Estate Investor - Insuring The Proper Entity

Ivan OberonPosted
  • Real Estate Investor
  • Camarillo, CA
  • Posts 119
  • Votes 41

Insuring the Proper Entity:

The first named insured is the primary recipient of any potential claim benefit or liability protection. An “additional insured” will garner liability protection only. A “loss payee” will have its interests protected in the event the property itself is damaged. (A mortgagee is inherently BOTH). However, as a general rule always aim to be the first-named on the insurance contract. In other words, if you (or your entity) owns it, then you should insure it!

Post: Any recommended rental property insurance companies in DFW/Texas area?

Ivan OberonPosted
  • Real Estate Investor
  • Camarillo, CA
  • Posts 119
  • Votes 41

I would recommend you work with an agent and company who understands the importance of separating what are considered "business" activities and liabilities from your personal liabilities and activities.

The IRS considers anything which generates income for you a Business activity. It is irrelevant whether you own the property in your personal name, an LLC, Corp or Trust, etc...

The vast majority of insurance people out there do not understand this because the majority of them are not active investors themselves and because of this, provide incorrect information and either inferior products and in many cases, based on my experience, the absolutely incorrect product altogether. This puts their clients and themselves at risk.

Coverage for your rental properties needs to be written on a commercial form, underwritten as a tenant occupied dwelling and at least $1,000,000 in liability. You want to look for the flexibility to not be subject to Co-Insurance requirements or minimum earned premiums and varying choices in deductibles and coverage forms. You also want to be able to switch coverage on the fly between a property being vacant, occupied or under renovation as sometimes you might experience a longer vacancy than expected during a turn or have to do a more major renovation after many years.

Also, all "personal" policies and "personal umbrella" policies have what is called a "Total Pollution Exclusion." Many commercial policy forms allow you to "buy back" coverage for at least one type of "pollutant" that is pertinent to landlords. This coverage will offer defense and claims settlement for alleged or actual injury caused by CO2 emissions from a heating or air conditioning source.

You can add a "personal umbrella" to cover your personal liability exposures of your home and auto, if your net worth justifies it, but you should keep any income producing assets separate from your personal liabilities.

Post: Installment #12 Insurance Issues for The Real Estate Investor - Workers' Compensation - Final

Ivan OberonPosted
  • Real Estate Investor
  • Camarillo, CA
  • Posts 119
  • Votes 41

Installment # 12 - Insurance Issues for The Real Estate Investor

Workers’ Compensation – Final

Understanding that the relationship between you/your business and those that provide labor and services is not simply a by-product of how you compensate them is the first step in making sure your real estate (and any other business) is protected appropriately from WC (and GL) exposures. Securing and confirming coverages is a must when dealing with any and all contractors and service providers.

Unfortunately, in today's litigious world, the risk of using uninsured “spot labor” far outweighs any short-term time or financial benefit. If you are currently using and satisfied with such labor, review with your legal and accounting advisors and consider securing coverage for them, in the most appropriate and efficient manner they/you decide. It only takes one uninsured claim to put you out -of-business.

Post: Installment #11 Insurance Issues for The Real Estate Investor - Workers Compensation - Continued

Ivan OberonPosted
  • Real Estate Investor
  • Camarillo, CA
  • Posts 119
  • Votes 41

Installment # 11 – Insurance Issues for The Real Estate Investor

Workers’ Compensation – Continued

Pertaining to hiring contractors and third-party service providers, be certain that they carry not only “General Liability” (GL) coverage, but also current WC coverage, whether State-sponsored or from a private insurer. The best time to obtain such validation of coverage is at the onset of the bidding process. Once Certificate(s) of Insurance (COI) are secured from the contractor or service provider a quick phone call (or email, which I prefer as it creates a “paper trail”) to the carrier or Agent can confirm the coverage(s) are current and valid. Being named a “certificate holder” is typically sufficient for most scenarios, especially when you do not utilize a contractor more than a few times a year. For larger/longer term jobs and projects, being named as an “additional insured” may be preferred. Put simply, a certificate holder is simply notified in the event the policy cancels. An additional insured not only is notified when the policy cancels, they are actually protected by the coverage/policy. Review with your legal advisor, and be advised that being named as an additional insured may cost the contractor some additional premium, usually no more than $50-100 per year. Depending on the situation, it may behoove you to pay this additional premium, if the contractor “balks”. My attitude is “no insurance, no project award”. If the contractor or service provider decides to cut expenses by sacrificing these vital coverages, then I do not want them doing any work for my business.