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All Forum Posts by: Jon Graham

Jon Graham has started 12 posts and replied 64 times.

Post: Rehab strategy - spit and polish or full rehab

Jon GrahamPosted
  • Property Manager
  • St. John, IN
  • Posts 67
  • Votes 30
Originally posted by @Bill Hinshaw:

@Jon Graham

Congrats on some amazing work! I am wrestling with this same issue. We've almost completed 4 flips, with each one having a rehab budget over 100k and an ARV over 500k. Each project has taken a minimum of 4 months to complete. Of course, I expect both our budget and timeline to improve as we gain experience, but this is where we are currently.

The first thing that comes to mind with your question is the time value of money. Another thing is the availability of houses in various markets and conditions. If I could, I would build a business where all I did was minor cosmetic upgrades, maybe some staging, and back on the market within 2 weeks on houses built after 1990 in high demand areas with low days on market. In my mind, that will probably produce the better return over time. The problem is finding a steady stream of those to build your business around.

My plan is to do both the minor cosmetic rehab and the full gut jobs, with hopefully some wholesaling and real estate development mixed in. So far, all I've found are the full gut jobs.

Good luck! Let us know when you figure out your next step.

Yeah I guess we all are in search of the house that just needs painted and staged LOL that would be nice. We are starting a project now that is quite a bit smaller/easier than anything we've done so far. Trying to calculate the time invested vs profit ratio is kind of tricky, but I will update later with how it goes. 

Another problem we have had is the inventory is so low in our market for cheaper houses it's really difficult to find profitable projects in those price ranges. 

Post: Rehab strategy - spit and polish or full rehab

Jon GrahamPosted
  • Property Manager
  • St. John, IN
  • Posts 67
  • Votes 30
Originally posted by @Wendy Vaidic:

@Jon Graham the money is important!  Otherwise, we can't keep doing what we're doing.  Your project is stunning, by the way.  

 Thank you! Had 5 showings and three offers in the first 24 hours BTW

Post: Rehab strategy - spit and polish or full rehab

Jon GrahamPosted
  • Property Manager
  • St. John, IN
  • Posts 67
  • Votes 30
Originally posted by @Nick C.:

That's the beauty of real estate, there's no right or wrong way to do it as long as you're making money! 

 Guess that's why there are so many topics on BP lol. Otherwise I guess there would just be a book. I am making money so I'm a little cautious about making any change. Just thinking about ways to maximize profits. 

Post: Rehab strategy - spit and polish or full rehab

Jon GrahamPosted
  • Property Manager
  • St. John, IN
  • Posts 67
  • Votes 30
Originally posted by @Wendy Vaidic:

For me, doing a full rehab is where the joy comes from.  Knowing I'm providing a quality product to a home buyer is the  only way I can do flips in good conscience.  Now, there have been occasions where I have bought properties that were newer, and therefore needed less of a renovation.  In the end though, the purchaser ended up with a great product and that's what matters to me.

Kindred spirit here for sure! It would definitely be out of character for me to try and do an 'average' project, but i do like making money lol..

Post: Rehab strategy - spit and polish or full rehab

Jon GrahamPosted
  • Property Manager
  • St. John, IN
  • Posts 67
  • Votes 30
Originally posted by @Nick C.:

Beautiful work!

It really depends on the neighborhood and the price point. If you're reselling in an entry level area and all the recent comparable sales are all in average condition and are selling quickly, you may not get the return you're looking for by going all out. Low sales price is going to be the key selling point here. 

But for nicer areas that have higher price points and longer Days on Market, all the bells and whistles are a must to stand out.

I see your point. However, our strategy going in dictates what neighborhood we buy into in the first place, if that makes sense. Because we have gone in with the approach of doing a higher end rehab, we have bought into a higher end market. Our experience in doing this has been when we rehab a little better than what everyone else is doing, we get a little higher sale price and we think the time on market is getting reduced. One of my concerns is that if we do a more average flip that the time on market may increase. 

Post: Rehab strategy - spit and polish or full rehab

Jon GrahamPosted
  • Property Manager
  • St. John, IN
  • Posts 67
  • Votes 30

I'm an investor in NW Indiana. We have done a few successful flips over the last couple years. On the houses we have done, our strategy has been to do a quality rehab and try to drive up the resale value of the house. We have been pretty successful at this, but sometimes I wonder if it might be better just to do a quick simple rehab and take what we can get. We have always gotten a decent return on the extra time and money we have put into rehab so i wouldn't say we have a problem necessarily. We also enjoy the process of taking a distressed property and making it truely beautiful again. However the ultimate goal is to make money of course. 

With all the long time pros on here I'm hoping to hear what has worked for you guys and why. 

Here are a few pics of a recent house we finished and sold in 24 hours for asking price. 

Post: New member from the Southwest Chicago suburbs

Jon GrahamPosted
  • Property Manager
  • St. John, IN
  • Posts 67
  • Votes 30
Welcome to BP!

Post: Home inspection Horror stories

Jon GrahamPosted
  • Property Manager
  • St. John, IN
  • Posts 67
  • Votes 30

We recently had a home inspection where the inspector was a hack (not suprising). I used to have a boss that said inspectors are failed contractors, and I've found that to be often correct. Not to say there aren't some really good ones, I know a few, but they are the minority. 

This property was especially bad. Here are just a few of the items he screwed up.

1. He said our BRAND NEW furnace was 'nearing the end of it's useful life, approx 15-20 years, and needs replaced' and took pictures of it. In the picture was the card of the contractor who replaced it. 

2. Said the roof was 3-layers (not allowed by code in our area) when it was only two. Prompting the buyers to ask for a re-roof of the roof we had just done. 

3. Suggested the buyers replace ALL the insulation in the attic because he found a spot of mice droppings. (One spot). Who doesn't have mice droppings somewhere in their attic? He called it a rat infestation. I'm not exaggerating the condition of the attic, I've been in construction a long time. There were no 'rats'. 

4. Suggested the entire basement showed signs of water issues because of some rust at the bottom of a steel column. Suggested the buyers have the entire basement waterproofed. (It was a finished basement, no signs of water anywhere else, just the old steel column)

Anyone else have an inspector horror story? 

Post: Private Investor Wants 50% for 0% work Advice

Jon GrahamPosted
  • Property Manager
  • St. John, IN
  • Posts 67
  • Votes 30

Doesn't seem like a good deal if he's only putting half the money down. Maybe if he was financing the entire deal, then it would make sense to split the profits. You take half for the work and he takes half for the investment. 


HML will give you a much better rate with less out of pocket money. Some give the option to refinance at the end into a long term deal as well.

Post: Contracted buyer being difficult. Negotiate or cut him loose?

Jon GrahamPosted
  • Property Manager
  • St. John, IN
  • Posts 67
  • Votes 30
Originally posted by @Michael Hayworth:

Let's start here - there are a TON of really bad home inspectors out there. As you probably know, you can get a home inspector's license through online courses. Many/most newer home inspectors either washed out in construction or were never in it to begin with. Those of us in the remodeling or home building trades don't have a hell of a lot of use for home inspectors. (And yes, there are some good ones out there, too. But experience leads me to believe they're in the minority.)

After seeing enough inspection reports that made me cringe, I adopted the following approach, and it works pretty well. Realize that the whole real-estate agent intermediary approach keeps buyers and sellers distant from one another, and it's harder to establish a connection, so I try to get past that.

  • I put together an actual letter and send as PDF or JPG so the buyer's agent has to give the whole thing to the buyer. I'm very cordial, colloquial, I'm on their side.
  • I tell 'em what a great house they're purchasing, how much I love this particular house.
  • Then I talk a little bit about home inspectors qualifications versus people who are really in the trades. I kinda ruefully tell them that we see this a lot - inspectors who just don't know what they're looking at, and who are trained to point out every tiny thing, lest they be sued at some point for missing something.
  • I go point by point down their repair request. Anyplace there's real concerns and I'm agreeing to fix it, I acknowledge that as something the inspector got right. If it's something that was valid to note, but I'm still not going to fix it, I just tell 'em that at this price point, that's not something I can do.
  • Anyplace where the inspector screwed up, I provide background info and actual facts to make them feel OK about the house. Buyers are scared, and they're relying on the inspector. If I just say, "He's an idiot!" they don't believe me. If I present myself as us being in this together, and give them really good info, now we're working as a team to get this done.

This approach has been very successful for me (used it again just yesterday, in fact). And if you do it right, you even get the buyer's agent on your side - the BA wants to sell a house. Why not sell the one already under contract, rather than start again with lots more showings?

If you're not a contractor, you may need to get some time with your contractor(s) to get their input on the report and do the letter that way.

Now, all that said, if the buyer is just making stuff up because he's got buyer's remorse, that's harder to turn around - but even in that case, a nice letter reminding them of all the awesome stuff about the house can help quiet down buyer's remorse sometimes.

Good luck!

 Not bad advice thanks. I did something along these lines as a last stitch effort, though not as in depth as you are suggesting. I wrote a letter to the buyers, and it did start talks back up again, but by that point the deal was too far gone. If I had done that sooner it might have saved the deal.