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All Forum Posts by: Hannah Joy

Hannah Joy has started 26 posts and replied 88 times.

Post: When to refinance?

Hannah JoyPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Eureka CA
  • Posts 89
  • Votes 27

Thanks @Jacqueline Wright! In the end I was forced into the HELOC. I had applied for the CALHFA ADU grant and clarified options in the beginning. However, the escrow servicer reneged on the options at the last moment and decided they would only reimburse a HELOC. I am frustrated about that but it will be worth it to obtain the grant. Thank you for your clear answer though!

Post: When to refinance?

Hannah JoyPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Eureka CA
  • Posts 89
  • Votes 27

Hi all, thanks in advance. I bought a property last October- 13% rehab bridge loan to purchase and renovate. Completed the reno and did a cash out refinance in June 2024 to 8% and added an ADU with the cash out. I planned to do a piggyback HELOC to have access to quick capital in case a good next deal came along but it has been a long drawn out process and right at closing they decided they needed a new appraisal. I'm rethinking my strategy. Since rates have gone down considerably, should I plan to refinance again as soon as next year? If that was the case I would let the in-process HELOC go, and shoot for a refi and HELOC at the same time next year to avoid duplicating fees. I don't really want to get into another project until next year anyway (I'm tired lol). What are your thoughts on my specific scenario, and predicted refi rates in general?

Post: More value - contractor or architecture licensure?

Hannah JoyPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Eureka CA
  • Posts 89
  • Votes 27

Hi folks, looking into either contractor license or architecture license to support further real estate development. Which one has more quantifiable value in general? 

Thanks for sharing your knowledge! 

Post: Appraiser using wrong comps?

Hannah JoyPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Eureka CA
  • Posts 89
  • Votes 27
Quote from @Brad S.:

27yr Appraiser here - in 2-4 unit properties, in most markets, rarely is the cost or income approach very relevant (not going to go into the details why). An appraiser is typically going to rely exclusively on the sales comparison approach and hopefully find relatively similar comps to compare the Subject to. 

Unfortunately if there are not good comps available (as you stated) you may be more subject to the appraiser's skill and opinions. The proper way to approach this appraisal problem is (summarized below):

* find reasonably similar comps - find relatively recent duplex sales in the Subject's market area and adjust for differences, based on market response (i.e. how much more/less buyers would typically pay for certain characteristics like size of units and lot, location, quality/condition, etc).

* In the absence of similar comps - go back in time to find any similar comps, no matter how long ago and adjust for market trend differences (appreciation, etc), as well as other adjustments as typical (size, bed/bath, condition/quality, location, etc).

* Go to nearby market areas/neighborhoods and find reasonably similar duplex sales and adjust for market area/neighborhood differences as required - along with the other adjustments.

* Find reasonable 3 or 4 unit (not more than 4, and they can use sfr's, but those are typically not as good for comparison. Then they would calculate an estimated market adjustment for # of unit differences. But, generally, this is not very accurate.

Anyway, there are a few more techniques they can use, but this gives you an idea of how they should go about it.

So, as to your specific question, YES, you can most definitely dispute the appraisal if you think there are legitimate reasons to. The best way to do that is understand the different processes I noted above and then to provide reliable, reasonable, credible, and factual information to the appraiser as to why they should consider other factors. Example: providing comp/s which are updated similarly to yours, but may be older sales or in a different neighborhood, and discussing why they should be used. Maybe providing additional info on other comps they used, that may not be readily available. Like contacting the realtors involved in those sales and finding out some pertinent info that caused them to sell below market value. Example: a realtor may tell you the property needed to be rebuilt from ground up due to bad foundation, or ?

Anyway, the basic idea here is you should provide the appraiser a reason to reconsider there value and analysis and just saying "mine is better than those," is not good enough. You also don't want to "shop for value," by cherry picking higher priced sales to justify a higher value. In other words if you have to find older sales or sales outside the neighborhood just because they have higher sales prices, then you are losing credibility. You need a reason and data to support your position that your property is worth more. Your opinion vs mine (as an appraiser) is only worth the data you can provide me to support it.

I hope that is helpful
Good luck


 Thank you! Very helpful! Is it a thing to hire an appraiser not doing your report to find credible comps beforehand just in case? 

Post: Appraiser using wrong comps?

Hannah JoyPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Eureka CA
  • Posts 89
  • Votes 27

@Kevin Sobilo

So when he lists the comps used for the appraisal, can I push back at all if it seems like he missed something? 

Post: Appraiser using wrong comps?

Hannah JoyPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Eureka CA
  • Posts 89
  • Votes 27

Hi there, I just had an appraisal inspection done for a cash out refi. Subject property is a duplex: 1 side is 5 bed 2 bath, other side is 2 bed 1 bath. 3000 sf total. Comps will be difficult, and he'll be looking at the recently sold houses. He mentioned driving by and taking photos of comps. Most comps I'm seeing are not updated, from the Zillow ads, and ours is fully renovated. If his appraisal comes back low, can I challenge the comps? How do I go about that? 

Post: Overextending? Need advice from the old timers

Hannah JoyPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Eureka CA
  • Posts 89
  • Votes 27

Well...they went with another offer! Pretty relieved, I have to be honest. I'm glad I went through the process through. Hopefully nothing that good comes up again until I can make that decision from a place of strength rather than ambition. Appreciate all the feedback! 

Post: Overextending? Need advice from the old timers

Hannah JoyPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Eureka CA
  • Posts 89
  • Votes 27
Quote from @Costin I.:

@Hannah Joy - not to rain on your parade, but...

1. How do you calculate your cash flow? $400-550 cashflow sounds too good, and in CA. Are you accounting all this in your expenses? 

2. How are you doing on capital expenses reserves? (see this link how we forecast the average vs actual incoming capital expenses)

3. Have you run a risk analysis on your portfolio? What happens if you get a vacancy or more, an extended vacancy (like a squatter or COVID situation), a major repair or more, or a combination? 

4. Suggested reading - https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/12/topics/1171104-the-m...

5.  Big risks, big wins. No guts, no glory. What's your risk tolerance? Personally, slow and steady wins the race.


 Great links thank you! 

Post: Overextending? Need advice from the old timers

Hannah JoyPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Eureka CA
  • Posts 89
  • Votes 27
Quote from @Bruce Woodruff:

Relax....you're young, already doing great and this is not a race. If you're feeling that stressed, just wait a while and rethink this....

Just my $0.02


 Thanks Bruce, I love this. I forget it isn't a race. It feels like one sometimes when I am sitting at my desk job dreaming of early retirement through real estate. I'm ready to spend my time wandering the woods looking for elderberries, pondering the meaning of life :) 

Post: Overextending? Need advice from the old timers

Hannah JoyPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Eureka CA
  • Posts 89
  • Votes 27
Quote from @Shane Littrell:

Hi Hannah,

I think you’re overly concerned with leverage. Don’t leave your current cash flow out of equation. That’s prior work that lessens the risk of each new property. Looking at new property your mortgage will be around low 2000s and you currently cash flow 1500. Properties losing value short term is way less of a risk than making monthly expenses when holding long term. You have a solid foundation, build on it. Don’t have to spend 100k on rehab immediately if it’s already performing as you mentioned. Congratulations on your success and have confidence you’ll keep overcoming obstacles and improving! You’re doing great!


 Thanks for this encouragement Shane!!