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All Forum Posts by: Greg Lovern

Greg Lovern has started 29 posts and replied 47 times.

What happens when a home is sold at a judicial foreclosure auction for a 2nd mortgage? Is the buyer required to immediately pay off the 1st mortgage?

If it depends on the locale, I'm interested in how it works in King County, Washington State.

@James Dainard  What are your thoughts about the dangers of RCW 61.34?

Do you do deals that 61.34 defines as "distressed home conveyances", or do you stick to deals that 61.34 defines as "distressed home consulting transactions"?

Do you mind if I ask about how many you've done, and about how long you've been doing them? Have predatory lawyers tried to sue you over RCW 61.34?

@James Dainard Thanks, I'll definitely talk to them. But what I meant was, do you do preforeclosure flips?

@James Dainard Thanks -- are those preforeclosure flips, or another kind of flip?

@Mike M. Thanks, can you point me to the text that says it's illegal in Washington to solicit anybody who is in foreclosure, who is in pre-foreclosure or thinks they may be in foreclosure in the future? I don't find that in 61.34. I do find at 61.34.020(3) that it defines a person as a "distressed home consultant".

Jametsky vs Olsen modified 61.34 to clarify the meaning of "at risk of loss due to nonpayment of taxes". 61.34 doesn't define it, though it defines almost everything else but the kitchen sink. The buyer wanted it to mean that a certificate of tax delinquency had been served by the county (which had not happened yet in that case though he was $10,000 behind). The homeowner wanted it to have it's dictionary meaning. 

The attorney general agreed with the homeowner, and their opinion officially had "great weight" in the case because they are charged with enforcing 61.34. 

The supreme court also agreed with the homeowner, setting the precedent that "at risk of loss due to nonpayment of taxes" has the plain dictionary meaning of "vulnerable to loss due to nonpayment of taxes", and has to be decided on a case by case basis, taking into consideration the homeowners resources. But for investors, it's best to assume it means anyone who has unpaid back taxes.

Since the deal also included an option for Jametsky to repurchase the home, it was clearly in the "distressed home conveyance" and "distressed home purchaser" section of 61.34, which apparently no one understands and no one knows how to lawfully abide by.

Where do you find that the supreme court found the threat of a county tax foreclosure can be used by the trial court as evidence of a ‘distressed conveyance’ under RCW 61.34? The word "conveyance" doesn't even appear in the decision (the word "conveyances" does appear near the beginning as part of the full name of the 61.34 statute, but not as any part of the court's decision). I think you mean "distressed property", which 61.34 actually calls "distressed home".

The distinction appears to be critically important in 61.34. If a deal meets the description in 61.34 of a "distressed home conveyance", then it is burdened with requirements that apparently no one understands and no one knows how to lawfully abide by. But if a deal does not meet that description, then the deal falls under the safe and sane "distressed home consulting transaction" category, even if the "distressed home consultant" is buying the home. Of course the buyer also needs to steer well clear of 61.34's felonious equity skimming section.

Also, I think Jametsky vs Olsen clearly doesn't affect distressed homeowners who are behind on their mortgage payments, because the lender pays the property tax anyway to protect their interest in the property. If you have a mortgage with a financial institution, you are not behind on your taxes no matter how far behind you may be on your mortgage. Of course if someone just has a mortgage with their Uncle Fred, anything goes.

Your point that 61.34 has been modified by case law is interesting. Have there been other precedents set, besides Jametsky vs Olsen, that modified 61.34?

I believe I've charted two narrow but safe courses through 61.34, both described at the link I provided in the original post. It would be interesting if anyone would comment on them.

@Jay Hinrichs Thanks, I read up on Joe Kaiser a couple days ago. His deals clearly put him in the "distressed home conveyance" and "distressed home purchaser" section of 61.34, which apparently no one understands and no one knows how to lawfully abide by.

Also he does not appear to have been making any real effort to fulfill the fiduciary duty assigned to him by 61.34. 

I believe I've charted two narrow but safe courses through 61.34, both described at the link I provided in the original post. It would be interesting if anyone would comment on them.

The general idea in both cases is to steer scrupulously clear of the deadly "distressed home conveyance" and "distressed home purchaser" section of the law, and also of course steer clear of the felonious equity skimming section, to stay well within the safe and sane "distressed home consultant" and "distressed home consulting transaction" section, which despite the names can include buying the home.

For judicial foreclosure auctions in King County, Washington State, is data available on how much more, on average, than the total payoff amount they sell for at the auction? I.E. how much on average is the excess amount that goes back to the mortgagor.

Do they mostly sell for close to market value? Do many sell for the payoff amount or little more?

@Jay Hinrichs Thanks, but if so, that would mean I've misinterpreted it in places. If you can find the time to glance through the yellow highlighted sections and let me know what I've misunderstood, I would very much appreciate it.

Greg Lovern

I'm trying to get started with preforeclosure flipping in King County, Washington State. I read RCW 61.34 but as a non-lawyer found it confusing, tangled, and murky. In an effort to understand it better, I went through it item by item and translated it to plain language. But I still have questions.

Here's my translation to plain language. My commentary is in yellow highlighting and my questions are in red highlighting. I'd be interested in any answers to my questions, and any comments about anything I may have misunderstood:

RCW 61.34 in plain language, by a non-expert non-lawyer

I'd put the questions here in the post too but I think they make more sense in context. They are easy and quick to find by scrolling through looking for the red highlighting.

Oh -- I did the same for the 2014 Washington State Supreme Court decision related to RCW 61.34. My translation of it to plain language is at the end of the page linked above.

Thanks for any answers or comments!

Greg Lovern

@Joe Mercer Thanks, great idea, I will do that.

Greg