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All Forum Posts by: George Voutsinos

George Voutsinos has started 9 posts and replied 69 times.

You guys are 100% correct.  Just curious what standard practice was among others.  

Post: 12 Unit Multi-Family Property Valuation

George VoutsinosPosted
  • Investor
  • Philadelphia, PA
  • Posts 69
  • Votes 34

The seller can ask whatever sale price they'd like but it's up to you to determine the value. Are you sure they're not condos? I'm not sure how a building of condos would be evaluated but if it's 12-unit apartment building it should definitely be evaluated off NOI. Compare CAP rates from comps that recently sold.

Post: Has anyone spoke/interviewed tenants during due diligence?

George VoutsinosPosted
  • Investor
  • Philadelphia, PA
  • Posts 69
  • Votes 34

I'm sure it's most likely frowned upon but on the smaller scale apartment buildings, during due diligence has anyone ever tried speaking with tenants to uncover any existing conditions or deferred maintenance problems they may be facing?  Sometimes contractors or inspectors may not catch everything.

Post: Historic Tax Credits

George VoutsinosPosted
  • Investor
  • Philadelphia, PA
  • Posts 69
  • Votes 34

@Julio Gonzalez great post!  I understand historic tax credits are offered by the State (25% in PA) & Fed (20%).  I've been underwriting an old warehouse (built 1940) that needs a complete renovation/gut (reno cost would surpass building purchase price).  It would be in the ballpark of a $1million purchase + $4million renovation.  I understand the parameters of what costs are covered and which are not.  This project is a heavy lift due to the fact a zoning variance would need to be completed to change it from industrial to mix/use resi and the building would need to be registered/accepted on the historic list. I have a couple questions I'm hoping you could help answer.

1. Unless someone has a large backing of investors, conventional financing will be hard to find for a project of this nature.  The State & Fed HTC's can help close the gap.  Since this building is not on the list & I do not own the building, how could I find out if the building would qualify and be accepted on the historic list?

2. Drawings will cost approximately $75-100K for a project of this nature, those would need to be completed beforehand in order to get approved for State & Federal HTC's?

Is there any need for contractor yards in Green Bay?  It's basically a plot of land divided up by fencing into small yards/sections.  Could vary in size, 1,000-2,000sqft for each small yard.  You could probably fit 40-50 small yards on that land and rent them out to contractors for a couple hundred dollars each.  Look up rental comps in your area of course.  You'd have to add a security system & cameras but other than that can't imagine much overhead.

Post: Attempting to Remove PMI & Bank Refusing

George VoutsinosPosted
  • Investor
  • Philadelphia, PA
  • Posts 69
  • Votes 34
Quote from @Joshua Christensen:

George, I was a lender for a lot of years. It's also been 12 years since I was, so take this with a grain of salt. PMI is actually a company, a brand. MI is the mortgage insurance lenders require.

PMI is set by lenders on a lot of different loan programs. The 78% rule applied to conventional mortgages. VA has a funding fee and no monthly MI. FHA has monthly MI as well. After the 2008-2010 recession, FHA made changes to their MI requirements that made MI permanent on their 30 year fixed rate loans.

If your loan was in fact an FHA loan when you acquired the property, that may be what you're running into. I think some of the higher loan to value conventional loan programs may have gone to that model as well, but I'm not sure.

Go back and look at your loan papers and look for the mortgage insurance disclosures and how that is calculated.  It should be included in the docs somewhere.  Check the Promissory Note and/or the TILA disclosures.  It might even be on the Certificate of Disclosure.  

Hope that helps.  May not be the answer you're looking for.  Best wishes.


Joshua thank you so much for the insightful post. Great to hear from someone that was in the industry. When I was researching PMI I didn't even think of the fact that FHA could be different. I most definitely have a FHA loan. The only other way to ditch PMI would be to refinance into a conventional loan however it wouldn't be worth it with the high rates today. Case solved by Joshua, thanks again!

Post: Paid Mentorship Value

George VoutsinosPosted
  • Investor
  • Philadelphia, PA
  • Posts 69
  • Votes 34

I haven't joined any mentorship programs for Multifamily however I was a part of Fortune Builders program about 8yrs ago and that wasn't cheap BUT it paid off in a big way.  From the knowledge I learned there I was able to wholesale & buy (1) rental property that cash flows nicely and I still have today.  So if you can land at least one apartment building from a Multifamily mentorship I would say it would be well worth the money spent.

I love Rod Kheif's podcasts and would definitely consider his mentorship program along with a few others I follow.