All Forum Posts by: Phyllis E.

oops again, meant to say "wouldn't look "new" at all..."  I wish BP had an edit feature for our own forum posts to correct typos!

Thanks for the great explanation, Christopher Phillips! I've never heard it explained like that before--about a flip remodel being perceived as "new and unused" and therefore worth more in a buyer's eyes. I guess it is a little like cars--you know how they say that as soon as you drive a new car off of the lot it depreciates $5,000 (or something like that!) Come to think of it, those ROI charts don't specifiy exactly when the remodels they are averaging were done, do they? Perhaps they are averaging in remodels done within the last 5 years, which obviously wouldn't look at all, and might even be slightly outdated by now, given how fast decorating trends change, LOL! Thanks for the pointers. I see that you are a real estate agent, so that is much appreciated!

Thanks, Patsy. When you say "super outdated and ugly", I imagine you are talking about much older bathrooms, like those with lime green or pink tile and fixtures?  I hope buyers  wouldn't consider 1980's basic bone colored tile and fixtures that ugly and outdated, would they? Are you saying it might pay for itself ?

Since we can live in the home until sale, the holding costs aren't as much of an issue with us as they would be for a flipper--so that I guess that, then, is one reason it "pays" more for a flipper to remodel the bathrooms. I hadn't thought of that in that way; the return on investment increases if it causes your holding costs to go down due to a quick sale, which those ROI charts don't factor in, I imagine!!

The floor tile in our bathroom is bone and white mosaic tile,(wall tile and tub surround is basic builder 4 x 4's in "bone")  so I am trying to do a "bone and white" color scheme with a white vanity and adding white beadboard wainscoting and chair rail; I figure I would try to turn "dated" into "vintage beach cottage" style, ha, ha!  Do you think that might work?  (I live kind of near the Chesapeake Bay, so "coastal style" is popular here.)

Thanks, again.

Thanks, Greg S. That is what I was thinking and I appreciate the confirmation-  really don't want to spend money only to "lose" some of it in the end!   I am wondering how flippers make any money remodeling bathrooms, then, unless they are 1.) doing all the labor themselves, (as you say) 2.) The bathrooms were in horrible, unusable condition in the first place (which I suspect is often the case in many flips?)  I know that successful flippers have to get really good deals on the home in the first place, but still 58-65% return on investment---wow.

I guess the formatting fixed itself when I posted, so please  ignore the comment about it  above!

And, Thanks in advance for any information about this question of mine!

How do you determine how much (if at all) master bathroom remodeling to do in order to make money on the investment?

Flippers and remodelers typically remodel the bathrooms in their rehabs, correct? Then how come those "costs vs value" charts typically show a bathroom remodel as averaging only 58-65% return on investment? (as shown on this chart: http://www.remodeling.hw.net/cost-vs-value/2016/middle-atlantic/) I know these are just averages, but they would have to be low by over 35% for anyone to make any money by remodeling the bathrooms, according to these figures! Just wondering if you all have any insight into this. Are those ROI charts way off? How dated or "broken" does a bathroom have to be before you should invest in improving it?

(Sorry about the large type and mixed up formatting---I can't figure out how to shrink it back to normal size and not sure how it got so big in the first place!)

Here is why I am asking: I am trying to fix up my own home, of 23 years, to sell it this summer and am trying to think about it as a  business investment or "flip". ( I would love to eventually try some house flipping, so I am sort of thinking about this like practice, LOL! ) I am trying to determine if it would pay to do a more major remodel of our master bathroom (The house was built in 1987, btw.)  The vanities were in bad shape, so we have already bought some upgraded vanities with real marble* tops and new faucets, but not sure if we should also do a major remodel to replace the dated 1980's floor and wall tile, "Roman" whirlpool tub ("bone" colored), "bone" colored toilet, and acrylic shower stall. The current layout is  very awkward and is a poor use of space, but could be tremendously improved by just swapping the tub and shower locations/orientations, which I imagine would drive potential costs up a lot. We had several realtors through the house to give us some pre-sale, fix-up suggestions, and one realtor thought we should also replace the floor tile, along with the vanities, but, without improving the other things, I'm afraid it would be just throwing good money after bad.  So how do you determine when, and how much, master bathroom remodeling to do in order to make money?

(Btw, fwiw, I do have an architecture background from years ago (back before kids) and have already managed about 5 various home improvement projects on my own home here over the years!)

( * Just FYI, Home Depot now has real marble vanity tops in stock for unbelievably great prices--not carrara, but a type of marble called Arabescato Venato, which has both gray and beige and/or brown veining, so it can work with older beige and almond/bone colored tile, (like mine) too! If you buy one, though, make sure to take off the top and check it out before you take it home--being natural, the veining patterns vary considerably from box to box! HTH someone! )

@Andy- I watch a lot of "how-to" and "educational" type you tubes videos and I can appreciate how much work, preparation and "rehearsal" you must put in to get that level of quality compared to so many other videos out there where person is fumbling about, trying to think about what they should be saying, the camera isn't capturing what it should, etc. They can be frustrating to watch all the way through.

Your videos will, hopefully, continue to provide us with some real home-flipping "reality" shows, unlike the manufactured "made-up for tv drama" found on most HGTV shows! (Like "Oh-no, I think this house is haunted by a ghost"--as seen on "Flipping Boston." Or "oh-no, we've already started digging the foundation and the building dept. won't let us build the second story we were planning on." -as seen on "Love it or List it."  PU-LEASE spare us the nonsense!)

Keep up the good work!

I loved the very clever and engaging video and your adorable kids. The video seemed professionally done, making it very enjoyable to watch. I'll bet one of these days HGTV will offer you a new reality show, "Bed-time Real Estate Stories with Andy and his Kids"! (So moms and dads AND their kiddies can enjoy watching those HGTV shows together as a family, ha, ha --LOL!) I actually posted a comment on you tube and subscribed to your channel. I want to see more of these!

I loved the house flip, too. I can totally understand that the woman and her family were willing to sell it for a bit less in order to insure that it wasn't just torn down but renovated and revived to its former glory (probably surpassed it, too!) She looked so happy with the results. Money isn't everything.

I wonder if some of the HGTV home renovation/fixer-upper shows are inspiring more folks like your sellers to try and salvage these older homes, and to be able to realize that they CAN be restored and improved. It is like watching "magic" happen on those shows--and I'll bet your sellers wanted to see some of that magic on their old family home more than just get top dollar. And your video/flip definitely conveyed a bit of that transformation "magic", too!

I hope to see more videos with your sweet kiddos in there, too!

Thanks @Jeff S. and @Richard C. So it sounds like to make a good profit a rehabber should either 1.) act as his own general contractor to save the 15-20% GC profit and/or buy a home that is in very bad shape and priced accordingly-not just a little "dated"?

So, if I buy a home, for instance that is liveable and in average maintained shape but just needs some cosmetic fixing up, don't do any more major remodeling or it probably won't pay for itself?

Here is an example: Lets say I buy a typical 2400-3000 s.f. home in a desirable neigborhood in my local area that was built in the 1990's and has the typical builder-grade finishes of that era (plain oak cabinets, formica countertops, wall-to-wall carpeting in the living and dining rooms, plain 4 x 4 tiles in the bath--you know the type--serviceable buy "dated"--we have LOTS of them around here!) and replace and update the cabinets and appliances in the kitchen, and the cabinetry, fixtures and tile in the baths, would I likely not come out ahead when reselling?

I am a newbie here and I have been recently investigating the possibilities of rehabbing and flipping homes in my area. One thing troubles me though: although I've read about (and heard on the BP podcasts!) about the nice profits rehabbers and fippers can make, most real estate "Cost vs. Value" charts never show any remodeling projects completely recouping their costs in the resale value added! How could a flipper ever make any money?  Would anyone care to explain this apparent discrepancy between how a "flipper" can make money on remodels compared to the average homeowner remodel? I know flippers try to buy the homes below market value, but according to some of these charts,(I will link to one below), the average mid-range kitchen remodel only returns 63-75%, for example !  You'd have to buy the house waaay below market value in order to just break even if that were true. Yikes! Or are those charts only really accurate for the typical home that isn't in all that bad of shape to begin with. If that is the case, then do rehabs only pay if the home is in such bad shape that only a rehabber would buy it in the first place? Just curious how to make sense of these numbers.

Thanks so much.

http://www.remodeling.hw.net/cost-vs-value/2013/**