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All Forum Posts by: Don Ireland

Don Ireland has started 15 posts and replied 62 times.

Post: Hold RE in Roth 401k?

Don IrelandPosted
  • Holts Summit, MO
  • Posts 63
  • Votes 9

I thought the 401k could invest in anything (other than purchasing from DQ'd individuals or any illegal trading like drugs or guns), in any proportions. I had planned to diversify somewhat but had no idea that I'd have to maintain any type of proportion (such as 50% is REI).

I don't believe my 401k Plan docs even mention that The Plan would have ANY RE Investments. Let alone a min percentage. 

Post: Hold RE in Roth 401k?

Don IrelandPosted
  • Holts Summit, MO
  • Posts 63
  • Votes 9

I have no issue with someone wants G to diversify and buy stocks & bonds with their 401k funds too.  

My question was specifically related to using the 401k to but RE vs using personal funds.  Regardless of what you're investing in, a reduced tax (by way of deductions such as depreciation and others) still means that you're paying SOME TAX.  But if you used ROTH funds to do your investing, you pay NO TAX. 

So would I rather give up the depreciation deduction (or any other deduction) and instead pay no tax? ABSOLUTELY. 

I'm really just trying to make sure I'm not missing something. 

Post: Hold RE in Roth 401k?

Don IrelandPosted
  • Holts Summit, MO
  • Posts 63
  • Votes 9

But what I'm getting at is why does it matter if I can deduct depreciation?  If there is NO TAX isn't that better than REDUCED TAX?  And the depreciation would result in reduced tax. 

If I'm wrong, PLEASE CORRECT ME.  I'm asking because I want to understand.

Do you not include setting money aside to cover vacancies to be a part of your operating expenses? 

If you do, then there should be money set aside to deal with waiting for a new tenant. 

If you don't, then WHY? And have you learned to change that for the future?

Beyond the fridge filter, I think a lot depends upon what your lease says.  Most LLs I've ever dealt with/known had a clause that simply said the tenant may not make any changes without LL approval. 

If your lease has that and they made changes, not only can you refuse to reimburse them, you can charge them for putting it back they way it was.

Now having said that, I have to ask:  what are we talking about on the paint?  You had some neutral color when you showed the place and then painted it some outlandish color (maybr bright red)? If the color difference was major like that, I think I would cut them a little slack on that issue. 

Post: Hold RE in Roth 401k?

Don IrelandPosted
  • Holts Summit, MO
  • Posts 63
  • Votes 9

Thanks @Justin Windham.  

Yes this is a Solo 401k (which Justin knows as he set it up for me).

Post: Hold RE in Roth 401k?

Don IrelandPosted
  • Holts Summit, MO
  • Posts 63
  • Votes 9

@Rajeev kotyan: I'm using a Roth 401k (hence the thread title). The properties will each be owned by separate LLCs and I will be the manager. Each LLC will have a single member: my 401k Trust.

And Roth money will have been used to acquire/maintain the LLCs as well as their respective properties. 

So at retirement time, it seems the the LLCs could all be amended to name me as the single member.  Essentially taking one large withdrawal.  Any income those LLCs receive would pass to me TAX FREE (at least that's my theory anyway).  That should deal with their RMD requirements. 

Post: Hold RE in Roth 401k?

Don IrelandPosted
  • Holts Summit, MO
  • Posts 63
  • Votes 9

I tried to edit my reply and now my reply shows up as part of the quote. 

Post: Hold RE in Roth 401k?

Don IrelandPosted
  • Holts Summit, MO
  • Posts 63
  • Votes 9
Originally posted by @Don Ireland:
Originally posted by @Rajeev Kotyan:

@Don Ireland: Great plan of action.. some points to remember and then appropriately act on:

(1) Mortgage to acquire --- must be non-recourse (i.e. you cannot guarantee the loan).

(2) At 70 1/2 your ROTH 401K is subject to Required Minimum Distribution (RMD), so either adequate cash has to be maintained for such in the account, or as William Morrison suggested take a distribution in kind. Please do note that for this you would have to do a formal fair market appraisal on an annual basis of the real estate that is held in the ROTH 401K.

(3) You do have the option to rollover your ROTH 401K to a ROTH IRA to prevent the RMD, but you may want to make sure that either the loan is paid off or the loan has the appropriate documentation to enable such a transfer. A transfer to the ROTH IRA may (but in this case may not) could activate UBIT (unrelated business income tax)

(4) In case of death, the ROTH 401K and the ROTH IRA appropriately transfer to the beneficiaries and then the appropriate RMD's begin (which requires a fair market appraisal on an annual basis). If there is an active loan this could trigger UBIT for a ROTH IRA (the code is not very clear on this one).

You have a good strategy, work with qualified and knowledgeable professionals who can assist and guide you through all the implementation steps.

@Rajeev Kotyan:

1) yes that's the one major complication I see with this plan. 

2 & 3) it has been my understanding that an IRA is subject to RMD & a 401k is not. But in addition, if it is not subject to any tax (Roth) then it seems like I could pull out as much as I wanted without concerned of tax. Is that not the case?