All Forum Posts by: Dave Grosse

yeah going through 36 pages will be a PITA, but you may find some answers to questions you hadn't thought of yet. Or, if you're like me, you will go through everything only to have more questions.

As to your question about using option contracts - what is your strategy for buying and selling short sales? If you are going to use realtors, then it will depend on what your local MLS regulations will allow for. In the areas that I am doing business I cannot use options.

That being said I've never really even tried to use them so I am not sure how banks in general feel about dealing with buyers who utilize an option. I think a lot of investors use them and don't have problems.

http://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/103-short-sales

36 pages all about short sales my friend, a great place to start.

For me, the lack of expertise(experience + knowledge) has definitely held me back. Without those then I didn't have the guts. Then money, then sellers/properties, then buyers.

I am still a little uncomfortable going into meetings with realtors and handling their objections/questions about short sales, but I've learned that you just have to have balls in this business. I was always scared of not having the answer, looking stupid and word getting around that I should be avoided. Our minds play nasty, nasty tricks on us!

I've definitely come up short on answers, and made a fool of myself with some of the responses I've given, and it turns out to not be so bad. Now I've learned what I did wrong, corrected it and I can feel the momentum swinging in my favor.

so to recap...

after expertise(experience+knowledge)

1. guts(also could be self-confidence)
2. money
3. buyers
4. properties
5. sellers

Actually, that was when I first started. I'm still a newb in many ways, but now that I'm getting my swagger I feel it looks more like this

1. buyers
2. properties
3. sellers
4. money
5. guts

Kind of interesting how guts fell to the bottom after putting myself out there

Billy - great questions. I think the only one i can answer is the last one. If the deal goes A-C the "A" agent gets the commission. "B" agent is only representing you, so if you don't buy then they don't get a commission.

As for the others, I'm going to take a stab at them, but I hope one of the experienced guys/gals hops in to save us from ourselves :) I've never done a complete ABC deal for starters, but have 4 in negotiations at the moment. All of those only have one(my) agent involved. That being said, here's my best shot ...

The B-C listing would be with your "B" agent. I believe it is listed a short sale. Once you have verbal or written approval of your offer, the you should change it to short sale approved and probably some language to motivate potential buyers. I think it has to stay listed as a short sale because until you actually close on it and hold title, it will be a short sale. I understand your question of once you close A-B then B-C is no longer a short sale, and I don't have a good answer for that. Definitely an odd situation

Originally posted by Financexaminer:

Better just to split the listings betewwn your transactions...

Thanks Bill, could you explain this idea a little further?

Originally posted by Scott Hubbard:

...
So, the rule of thumb is to have the agent represent the seller for (3% or less) on the A to B and have a seperate agent broker the B to C....

Scott in this scenario, how does the re-list work out? Does seller's agent have to pull down their listing on MLS and then your agent puts your listing up? any advice on how to convince seller's agent to do this?

right but what do you do when the bank says they want it listed on the MLS? I'm still dealing directly with the banks, realtors never handle my negotiations. I'd just like to leverage the realtors to spend their dollars to market for leads and end buyers. I want to have minimum time and money invested into each deal, even if i make a few grand less.

right but what do you do when the bank says they want it listed on the MLS?

Wow, after reading my last post it would seem as though i've totally lost my way :roll: .

First, Sam - what exactly are you unsure of? Is dual-agency allowed in your state?

Second, my crazy post, this time the edited version :D

So, my sticking point has always been, anbd i think I've asked this question of several different people who've all given the same answer, "how the hell can you legally have two listing agreements, and then which one gets sent to the bank?" And I know the answer is: Its legal because its in your contract that the owner gives you permission to re-list the damn thing! And you send in the original listing agreement. Simple.

I think i just realized this morning that the listing agreement and the actual MLS listing aren't really tied together in anyway. That was why it seemed so sneaky to me, that it could be construed that you were trying to hide something, which if I would have followed the thought through I would've quickly realized that its not sneaky at all b/c everything is disclosed. (wow, I partied way too much in highschool) Just one of those silly things that's been holding me back, thank god I'm finally past it!

Again I think dual -agency can be tricky for realtors and so it is always best to get the properties before they are listed, and have your realtor only represent you. If it is already listed and you just can't pass it up, then the realtor will have to be a dual agent for you and seller if your local rules allow for dual agency. The states that I am operating in so far both allow for dual-agency so I don't know how you go after them with another realtor (as your buying agent) involved. Is this your question sam - Who re-lists for you in this case, your realtor or the seller's?

Phew

Sam - that same question has plagued me as well. From what I understand, the agent will remove her current listing from the MLS and replace it with the one you sign with her. It will depend on your local MLS/Board of Real Estate rules on how exactly that is done or if they will even allow it. But as I understand (and I have not actually done this yet) the realtor will still keep the original listing with the owner as a "pocket listing." Now I've heard that you send this pocket listing into the lender when they ask for the listing, and then actually display YOUR listing on the MLS. I don't really like this method - seems like it could very easily get that five letter F word tossed onto you.

Another way to do it, that seems better to me if you can make it happen is to have teh agent cancel the currrent listing agreement totally and then come back representing you solely. She could either be a dual agent for both of you or, and i prefer this, she would sign a Notice Of No Agency Agreement and a List/Show/Sell Agreemenet with the owner. Basically the No Agency states that the owner is not represented in any way by the realtor and the List/Show Sell says that the owner is agreeing to allow said realtor to List/Show and Sell the property for a commission.

I've been advised to just avoid any that are listed. Its tempting to go after them I know, but it is messy to say the least and I'm not a lawyer but having 2 listings seems to be walking a very fine line of legality. If anyone could please clarify how to do ABC Flips when they are already listed along with the potential pitfalls of going after listed short sales at least 2 of us would benefit greatly.

Originally posted by James Ward:

And make sure that they will participate fully. (I have a few clients that have Realtors sign an agreement that states what both parties are suppose to do and not do in each transaction.)

I'm working on putting together something like this - has anyone else done the same? James has given me excellent advice in that I should try to make it look like the amount of work is fairly even or that I am doing most of the work on these transactions.

I'm definitely having trouble with that though - I want the realtor to do as much as possible and minimize my time invested on each deal - ie I don't want to go sign contracts with owners, I want my realtors to do that.

Any advice?