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All Forum Posts by: Dan Barrett

Dan Barrett has started 3 posts and replied 53 times.

Post: PPC Campaign & SEO Marketing Companies

Dan BarrettPosted
  • Vendor
  • Middlefield, CT
  • Posts 55
  • Votes 50

@Chris Bounds huh....really? That seems like a large amount of out of state stuff if you're not getting that many leads each month... :-/ Are they looking to sell/buy in your area?

Anyway, by "organic" I really mean anything that's unpaid, but in practice that means SEO, yes.

If your rankings are improving and you're getting leads, awesome! You might look into leveraging your PPC data to help with your SEO at that point, or double down on what you're doing. My gut feeling is that in such a competitive market you will have to really work hard to out-compete everyone else who also wants that organic traffic near you...

Post: PPC Campaign & SEO Marketing Companies

Dan BarrettPosted
  • Vendor
  • Middlefield, CT
  • Posts 55
  • Votes 50

@Chris Bounds

Ahhhh....yes. I have competed in Houston several times in the last year - it's an absolute BLOODBATH right now.

Well, OK, that might have been a bit of an overstatement. :-) But you're right about the competition level getting really hairy.

High levels of competition like you have in Houston really invalidate a lot of the typical approaches to REI PPC, because the standard keyword lists that everyone's using - the "sell my house fast"s of the world - get bid up so high as to be essential unprofitable.

We've done deals affordably in Houston, but it's been tough. The key, I think, is to actually stay away from the "classic" REI keyword portfolio and look for cheaper ways to get in front of the same audience.

Typically, we'll do this by prioritizing the most profitable keywords in phrase match variations, avoiding exact match altogether (broad is still too broad in most markets, though it's probably worth a test in a market like yours).

Another key is going to be finding the place at which you can affordably compete - NOT going after the top positions because that's what everyone else is doing.

We find that the top spots in MANY markets are actually not worth the increase in cost - and that you can actually do more deals by targeting position 2, 3, etc. That's doubly true in a market like Houston, where the higher positions are FAR over priced for the subsequent performance increase they give (you can think of this like stock prices - a stock can be for a great company, but can still get far overpriced relative to it's actual value).

Anyway, not to bore you with nerdy stuff. You're in a tough market for PPC, for sure. Have you considered trying a primarily organic route, and using PPC in a more targeted way?

d

Post: Online Marketing VS Direct Mail

Dan BarrettPosted
  • Vendor
  • Middlefield, CT
  • Posts 55
  • Votes 50

@Andrew Detwiler haha - so many grains of salt everywhere!

That said, your numbers match pretty closely what people typically report. You cannot beat direct mail, in my opinion, for sheer cost-per-deal. It seems to vary by market, but so does everything.

Post: Best way to register your web site?

Dan BarrettPosted
  • Vendor
  • Middlefield, CT
  • Posts 55
  • Votes 50

@Ned Carey Is exactly right. No need to sign up for any "submission" services. I 100% recommend webmaster tools, which you can then use to manually request Google to spider your site and submit your own sitemap to make sure it gets all the appropriate pages.

Post: PPC Campaign & SEO Marketing Companies

Dan BarrettPosted
  • Vendor
  • Middlefield, CT
  • Posts 55
  • Votes 50

Oops! My post got removed for self promotion! My bad. Let me rephrase:

I've heard great things about @Mary K., though i've never met her in person. 

Brendan from SoarSEM does very high quality work: http://soarsem.com

Post: Has anyone ever advertised on Yelp?

Dan BarrettPosted
  • Vendor
  • Middlefield, CT
  • Posts 55
  • Votes 50

For what you do (I believe you're marketing directly to investors, correct?) Yelp advertising would most likely be a waste of time.

Your biggest channels would likely be Facebook and direct advertising/sponsorship of REI websites, podcasts, etc - gets you directly in front of your target audience. :-)

Post: Online Marketing VS Direct Mail

Dan BarrettPosted
  • Vendor
  • Middlefield, CT
  • Posts 55
  • Votes 50

@Leah Bonner I do PPC for investors professionally, so please take what I say with a grain of salt. here's my take on the differences between SEO, PPC, and Direct Mail.

DIRECT MAIL

Direct Mail has long been the workhorse of motivated seller lead generation. There's a reason that nearly every REI coach/guru teaches direct mail - it works, and has worked, for decades.

Direct mail has two primary strengths: list selection and affordability.

List selection allows you to know, for example, that everyone getting your pieces has a property in probate, or that everyone has a certain amount of equity. That's INCREDIBLY powerful, and allows you to fine-tune your marketing.

Affordability simply comes down to the fact that it's cheaper to send out direct mail pieces than it is to do nearly anything - and if you're outsourcing, it takes very little time (though many investors hand-write their letters, which obviously negates that last point).

Direct mail also has two primary weaknesses: low response rate and low barrier to entry.

Direct mail typically has a low response rate, with anything over a 1% response being considered quite good on a national level. DM also typically has a lower conversion rate of leads to deals, the national average probably being about 30 leads needed for every property put under contract.

The caveat to this is that your list selection affects this quite a bit; I spoke with an investor the other day that gets a 40% response rate on his mailings (hand-written, to a well-maintained list). That's quite rare, however, at least in my experience.

A low barrier to entry means that markets with a lot of other investors are often saturated with direct mail. Often, multiple investors are sending out the exact same mailings they got from their instructors, and potential sellers will sometimes have whole stacks of postcards on their desks by the time they call you (if they do). I've noticed a real uptick in complaints about this lately, but that's purely anecdotal.

PPC

PPC, or pay-per-click online advertising, is the newer kid on the block, although it's been growing quite a bit due to some prominent adopters (notably Sean Terry, the guys at We Buy Houses, etc).

PPC has two fundamental strengths: speed and objectivity.

PPC is one of the fastest marketing channels there is, and it's raw speed allows you to launch into entirely new markets in around ten minutes or so. There's also a great deal of velocity in getting your first leads in the door; if you have some knowledge, you can start generating motivated seller leads within an hour or so of launching your campaigns.

PPC's objectivity comes from the huge amount of data it generates; once you've run for a bit, you can tell which keywords generated your leads, what you paid for them, the responsiveness of the people that searched them, the conversion rate of those people, where they came from, the time of day and day of week they converted, etc. Using that data allows you to grow and get more efficient over time, increasing your leads while cutting your costs.

PPC has two fundamental weaknesses: difficulty and cost.

Difficulty: While I believe firmly that anyone can learn to run an effective motivated seller PPC campaign (I teach people to do this every day), it's still a technical skill that can be overwhelming to people. This is the core of why so many people lose money on PPC - they make some kind of technical mistake early on and end up spinning their wheels, getting frustrated, and quitting.

As for cost, PPC leads tend to be higher cost than something like direct mail, but also higher quality. So, while a PPC lead might cost you anywhere between 70 and 150 dollars, depending on your market and strategy, the typical rate of conversion into deals is roughly 1 out of 20, rather than 1 out of 30. Even with that considered, high levels of competition make some markets prohibitively expensive for some investors.

SEO

SEO is probably the oldest online marketing method, but also the most powerful - the vast majority of all searches online go to "organic" (i.e., non-paid) listings in Google, and consistently high ranking for a valuable keyword can be worth dozens of deals over the course of a year.

SEO has two fundamental strengths: long-term ROI and volume.

In terms of long term ROI, no marketing channels beats SEO. Since, by it's very nature, SEO can generate a long-term, steady flow of leads at no cost, it tends to be wildly more profitable than paid channels. The quality of traffic, presuming some strategic work on your part, can also be incredibly high. Once you're ranked, these leads are free - it's very hard to beat that.

For sheer volume, SEO also beats out most other channels. Search volume has been going up every year since Google first showed up; motivated seller searches, specifically, should also trend upwards very consistently as the younger, "internet-first" generations become the primary source of all home sales. Nearly 70-80% of all searches go to organic listings, making this the biggest single source of leads in nearly every market.

SEO has two fundamental weakness: time to pay off and labor-intensity.

SEO has a long time to pay off, in the sense that it requires a good deal of work and effort to actually move the needle and change your site rankings enough to create a greater lead flow. If we assume that a site needs to be at least on the first page of a particular search to generate leads consistently, and preferably on the top half of the page, it will often take 3-6 months of consistent work to get there. Many people get discouraged, drop out, or can't maintain the consistency needed over that time period.

SEO can also be very labor intensive. If you're blogging, optimizing, posting on various other sites, doing social media, etc....it can all add up to a great deal of work, especially if you're not being extremely efficient or smart about what you spend your time on. Conversely, if you outsource to an agency that's any good, they will be putting in a lot of work and will charge you accordingly.

I tried my level best to make this as objective as possible. All marketing channels have strengths and weaknesses, and in reality, you should do ALL of these! If you need to choose one to start, though, you might consider testing them out and seeing which seems to give you the easiest path forward.

If you have any questions or want any clarification, tag me and let me know. :-)

Post: Has anyone ever used the post boost option on facebook?

Dan BarrettPosted
  • Vendor
  • Middlefield, CT
  • Posts 55
  • Votes 50

@Mark Fulop Post "boosting" primarily works off of extending the existing audience for a page. If your page is new, doesn't have a lot of likes, or is poorly targeted, Boosting won't be terribly effective.

If you're trying to reach other investors, you'd be better off with traditional facebook ads (you can get there by going to http://facebook/ads/manage ). You'll have LOT more options, and can finely tune your targeting.

FB has been the best PPC channel for reaching investors, in my opinion. If you need help with any of the above, hit me up and I'll help you out!

Post: Pay Google for Organic spot on first page?

Dan BarrettPosted
  • Vendor
  • Middlefield, CT
  • Posts 55
  • Votes 50

@Trevor Smith WARNING - WARNING - THIS IS NOT LEGIT!

First of all, Google does not auction off organic rankings - organic rankings are, by definition, unpaid.

This is a marketing company pretending to be Google, which is  HUGE red flag. 

Secondly, no legitimate marketing company will guarantee you any particular ranking. All rankings fluctuate and vary depending on time of day, competition, market, etc.

Thirdly, there is no way to "shuffle you among the spots" day to day - no marketing company can control this.

You are absolutely right to assume this is too good to be true and should run, not walk, away from this as fast as possible.

That said, here's what I think is actually going on here - some company may be trying to rank sites within your market, then sell the leads from that site. So, they rank a site, then on Tuesday you get the leads from it, then Wednesday someone else does, etc.

In any case, this company is being INCREDIBLY disingenuous. It's a straight up scam!

Please let me know if you have any questions - I would be 100% happy to talk this over with you or look over anything they send you. But please, do not give these people any money. :-)

Post: How many deals did you do this year?

Dan BarrettPosted
  • Vendor
  • Middlefield, CT
  • Posts 55
  • Votes 50

@Levi T. Potential deal volume via SEM can depend a lot on your market - low population density can mean low search volume, for example, and some markets are very resistant to REI-style marketing (Salt Lake City is one that springs to mind as having been historically difficult online).

BUT - The technical barrier to entry for SEM means there's typically far less competition for investors that are able to get it done, whether that's with paid ads, SEO, or both. 

In the average local market, that means about 5,000-6,000 well-targeted searches a month. For a well managed, relatively low-budget local ad campaign, that typically adds up to somewhere on the order of 10-30 leads, with an average close rate of 1 out of 15-20. So, about a deal a month.

For organic, you can triple that number (again, assuming someone's putting in the effort and so on). There's quite a bit of variation, depending on the size of the area you target and your budget, but even with lower amounts of spend, there's a lot of potential deals online (after all, last time you needed to do something, where did you look - your mailbox? or Google?)