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All Forum Posts by: Clayton Smith

Clayton Smith has started 15 posts and replied 85 times.

Post: Building a dedicated college rooming house

Clayton Smith
Pro Member
Posted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Tuscaloosa
  • Posts 87
  • Votes 38

It's a great plan if you can get it past zoning. I recently built a 4 Bed/4 bath home in my college town and it has worked out great. In fact there are tons of larger houses close to campus in my town that have utilized this strategy. Private bathrooms are huge if you are going with this approach. Make sure each room has its own bath and good size closet. The only thing I will say is covid has dropped the market considerably for the 5-6 bedroom homes in my market. It was much easier to rent 2 bedrooms this year. But I expect things to get back to normal next year. 

Post: Appraisal and Lender Questions

Clayton Smith
Pro Member
Posted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Tuscaloosa
  • Posts 87
  • Votes 38

If you are able to find a lender that will do the 80% cash out please let me know. I have been looking and can only find 75% max right now. Back in March I started the process of refinancing 4 loans at 80% LTV with Mortgage right and because of covid mortgage right pulled the plug. No hard feeling towards them they were great to work with but it was out of their hands. Good luck.

Post: Tuscaloosa Alabama Recommendation

Clayton Smith
Pro Member
Posted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Tuscaloosa
  • Posts 87
  • Votes 38

Hi, 

I have a few properties in Tuscaloosa Alabama and am wanting to start an LLC. Does anyone of any recommendations for the Tuscaloosa or even Birmingham area?

Post: My First BRRRR: New Construction

Clayton Smith
Pro Member
Posted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Tuscaloosa
  • Posts 87
  • Votes 38
Originally posted by @Heather Johnson:

@clayton smith thanks for your detailed post! I'm really trying to figure out how to do something very similar in college towns near me and in the states where I want to invest. 

Quick question - how did you draw the plans yourself? Do you have experience in design or architecture? Did you find some software to help you out? 

Thanks, again, for sharing your story. Very interesting. Very helpful!

Hi, 

No, I don't have any experience in design or architecture. I just came up with the idea and sketched it on paper and then met with a local company that drew up the plans based on my sketches. This cost me $.60 / SF in my area, around $1,100 for my house. Once the drafting company had the "official drawings" I submitted them to the city for approval. 

Post: Closing costs are 8% of the half a million I'd be cash out refi

Clayton Smith
Pro Member
Posted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Tuscaloosa
  • Posts 87
  • Votes 38

What LTV where you able to get? I am looking to cash out refi but am trying to find lender that will do 80 LTV and am having a hard time.

Post: Alabama buy, hold, & rent deal

Clayton Smith
Pro Member
Posted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Tuscaloosa
  • Posts 87
  • Votes 38

Wow, nice job! The purchase price says $1200, is that correct? 

Post: New Construction BRRR

Clayton Smith
Pro Member
Posted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Tuscaloosa
  • Posts 87
  • Votes 38
Originally posted by @Solomon Smart:

Great story, thanks for sharing. I have been contemplating doing something very similar myself. Buying land, building, cashout refi, and live in or rent the property. You made it work. I always thought it took a year to 2 to build a houese;  but, you got it done in 6 months! How did it work with the draws from the lender to pay the builder? any complications with that? Also did you have the building plans before securing the construction loan?

In my area it doesn't take very long to get permits in place, in some areas this is a major headache. So take that into consideration for your area. Yes, I had to have a house plan and an estimate from a builder before I could get the construction loan. I also had to get a pre construction appraisal based on the house plans so the bank could approve the loan. This appraisal came in $60k lower then the actual appraisal at the end of construction. This was frustrating because it meant I had to put more money as a down payment for the construction loan but I knew my market and knew what it would be worth once construction was complete. I found a good bank after shopping around for the loan. I told them from day 1 that I planned to rent out the property. It is much easier to get a construction loan for your personal house. The bank took the estimate from the builder and split it into draws based on the cost of construction then gave me the draw once the work was done. It was a pretty easy process I would send him pictures of the work completed once a month and he would transfer it to my account that day. Then I would transfer the money to my builder. 

Post: My First BRRRR: New Construction

Clayton Smith
Pro Member
Posted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Tuscaloosa
  • Posts 87
  • Votes 38

Just finished up a new construction BRRRR and wanted to share with the community. The numbers breakdown is at the end.

Purchase Price : I bought a lot the $20,000

How did you find deal / negotiate: Driving to check on one of my rental properties on my lunch break I saw a for sale sign in an empty lot. The seller said $20,000 and I accepted. I did not negotiate because I ran the numbers and this was a good deal.

How did you finance the deal: I paid cash for the lot. I then went to a local bank and got a construction loan for 80% LTC. The bank would let me use the land has part of the down payment and I only had to come up with an additional $10,000. The loan was a 1% origination fee with 5.75% interest only payments funded in draws. The good thing about the loan is it would convert into a 20 year note at 5.75% interest. I knew I wanted to do a cash out refi at the end of the process and I could get a better rate but it's nice to have a safety net.

How did you add value: I live / invest in a college market where rental rate is based on the bedrooms. I could not build a duplex based on zoning but I could build a 4 bedroom house for students to live. I decided to draw the house plans myself to max efficiency and cost. I ended up going with a open concept 4 bedroom / 4 bath house at 1,738 SF. Each room has its own bath and walk in closet. That is a big selling point in my market. I started the build in late December and finished in May. Took about a month longer than expected but the rental season in college towns are tied to the school year. I knew I would have tenants in place in August, anything before that would be a bonus. I managed the construction with a home builder and design. I went with brick exterior as well as high end finishes and am very happy with the costs. I will break down the final cost below

Cash out Refi - I called around to every bank I could find and had two solid options. Option 1: 80% LTV on a 30 year note at 4.5% with closing cost around $7,500. Option 2: 75% LTV on a 30 year note at 3.625% with $5,500 in closing. I decided to go with option 1 and get as much cash out as possible. Then covid happened and the bank for option 1 told me they could no longer do 80% LTV and they would not go down on the interest rate, time to walk away. This happened after the appraisal had already been ordered. Option 2 was still on the table and but I had to start the process over again with bank 2. This added a few weeks into the refi but it meant a great interest rate. At this point I was feeling very anxious about the market uncertainty and worried I would get a bad appraisal but ultimately I was very happy with the results.

What was the outcome: I was unable to get 100% of my investment out of the house because of the 75% LTV loan. But I look at it as if I purchased a brand new cash flowing property for $7,208 out of pocket while also having $61,250 worth equity in the house. This is a huge win especially when you look at the cash flow numbers below.

Lessons Learned / Challenges:

COVID-19! Everything was going along as planned with a few minor headaches in construction but nothing to serious. I even had a group of students about to sign a lease for $300 more a month then I ended up getting before the house was even finished. Then Covid hit and complicated things. Luckily the construction was deemed essential and we were able to keep working and it just prolonged the process by about a month. Not great but not bad. Always have options ready if things don't work out like the refi. At 80% LTV I would have gotten all the money I invested plus $2,100 while still having 20% equity in the house, but I keep working and got it done. The next issue is the university students were sent home, this is my tenant demographic. Lots of stress wondering whether the university would reopen in the fall and this was up in the air for many months. In my market the big players have a lease signed for the next school year 9 months in advance. I was not able to get a lease signed until June for August. Again in my market this is very unusual. However Covid did teach me to that life happens and I always had the exist strategy of selling the house for a profit as a last resort.

The BRRRR numbers:

Purchase Price land: $20,000

Construction Costs: $161,693

Loan Costs: $4,712

Total Cost: $186,405

Cash out Refi Closing costs: $4,553

Apprised Value for Refi: $245,000

New loan value: $183,750 @ 75% LTV.

Cash left in deal: $7,208

Rental Numbers:

Rent: $2,100 / month

PM Fee 9%: $189 / month

Cap Ex 2.5%: $52.50 / month

Vacancy 2.5%: $52.50 / month

Maintenance 1%: $21.00 ( I know this is low but it is a brand new house)

Principle and Interest Payment: $837.99

Taxes & Insurance: $170.39

Total monthly cost: $1,323.38

Monthly Cash Flow: $776.62 / month - $9,319.44 year 1.

Final Result: BRRRR is a awesome. I have a brand new cash flowing property with a 30% ROI for the 1st full year of rent. Not to mention all the equity gained. Plus my monthly cash flow should only increase in the coming years when market rents return to pre-pandemic rates. You don't have to get 100% of your money out of the deal with the cash out refi to get a home run. I am very happy with the way the design of the house, I have a few pics below.

Thank you BP for all the knowledge and the confidence to pull this off. I just purchase a fixer upper and ready to try my first flip, although if the number are great I can also had another buy and hold to my portfolio.

Post: New Construction BRRR

Clayton Smith
Pro Member
Posted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Tuscaloosa
  • Posts 87
  • Votes 38

Just finished up a new construction BRRR and wanted to share with the community. The numbers breakdown is at the end.

Purchase Price : I bought a lot the $20,000

How did you find deal / negotiate: Driving to check on one of my rental properties on my lunch break I saw a for sale sign in an empty lot. The seller said $20,000 and I accepted. I did not negotiate because I ran the numbers and this was a good deal. 

How did you finance the deal: I paid cash for the lot. I then went to a local bank and got a construction loan for 80% LTC. The bank would let me use the land has part of the down payment and I only had to come up with an additional $10,000. The loan was a 1% origination fee with 5.75% interest only payments funded in draws. The good thing about the loan is it would convert into a 20 year note at 5.75% interest. I knew I wanted to do a cash out refi at the end of the process and I could get a better rate but it's nice to have a safety net. 

How did you add value: I live / invest in a college market where rental rate is based on the bedrooms. I could not build a duplex based on zoning but I could build a 4 bedroom house for students to live. I decided to draw the house plans myself to max efficiency and cost. I ended up going with a open concept 4 bedroom / 4 bath house at 1,738 SF. Each room has its own bath and walk in closet. That is a big selling point in my market. I started the build in late December and finished in May. Took about a month longer than expected but the rental season in college towns are tied to the school year. I knew I would have tenants in place in August, anything before that would be a bonus. I managed the construction with a home builder and design. I went with brick exterior as well as high end finishes and am very happy with the costs. I will break down the final cost below

Cash out Refi - I called around to every bank I could find and had two solid options. Option 1: 80% LTV on a 30 year note at 4.5% with closing cost around $7,500. Option 2: 75% LTV on a 30 year note at 3.625% with $5,500 in closing. I decided to go with option 1 and get as much cash out as possible. Then covid happened and the bank for option 1 told me they could no longer do 80% LTV and they would not go down on the interest rate, time to walk away. This happened after the appraisal had already been ordered. Option 2 was still on the table and but I had to start the process over again with bank 2. This added a few weeks into the refi but it meant a great interest rate. At this point I was feeling very anxious about the market uncertainty and worried I would get a bad appraisal but ultimately I was very happy with the results.

What was the outcome: I was unable to get 100% of my investment out of the house because of the 75% LTV loan. But I look at it as if I purchased a brand new cash flowing property for $7,208 out of pocket while also having $61,250 worth equity in the house. This is a huge win especially when you look at the cash flow numbers below.

Lessons Learned / Challenges:

COVID-19! Everything was going along as planned with a few minor headaches in construction but nothing to serious. I even had a group of students about to sign a lease for $300 more a month then I ended up getting before the house was even finished. Then Covid hit and complicated things. Luckily the construction was deemed essential and we were able to keep working and it just prolonged the process by about a month. Not great but not bad. Always have options ready if things don't work out like the refi. At 80% LTV I would have gotten all the money I invested plus $2,100 while still having 20% equity in the house, but I keep working and got it done. The next issue is the university students were sent home, this is my tenant demographic. Lots of stress wondering whether the university would reopen in the fall and this was up in the air for many months. In my market the big players have a lease signed for the next school year 9 months in advance. I was not able to get a lease signed until June for August. Again in my market this is very unusual. However Covid did teach me to that life happens and I always had the exist strategy of selling the house for a profit as a last resort.

The BRRR numbers:

Purchase Price land: $20,000

Construction Costs: $161,693

Loan Costs: $4,712

Total Cost: $186,405

Cash out Refi Closing costs: $4,553

Apprised Value for Refi: $245,000

New loan value: $183,750 @ 75% LTV.

Cash left in deal: $7,208

Rental Numbers: 

Rent: $2,100 / month

PM Fee 9%: $189 / month

Cap Ex 2.5%: $52.50 / month

Vacancy 2.5%: $52.50 / month

Maintenance 1%: $21.00 ( I know this is low but it is a brand new house)

Principle and Interest Payment: $837.99

Taxes & Insurance: $170.39

Total monthly cost: $1,323.38

Monthly Cash Flow: $776.62 / month - $9,319.44 year 1. 

Final Result: BRRR is a awesome. I have a brand new cash flowing property with a 30% ROI for the 1st full year of rent. Not to mention all the equity gained. Plus my monthly cash flow should only increase in the coming years when market rents return to pre-pandemic rates. You don't have to get 100% of your money out of the deal with the cash out refi to get a home run. I am very happy with the way the design of the house, I have a few pics below.

Thank you BP for all the knowledge and the confidence to pull this off. I just purchase a fixer upper and ready to try my first flip, although if the number are great I can also had another buy and hold to my portfolio. 

Post: Tax Implications of a Cash out Refinance

Clayton Smith
Pro Member
Posted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Tuscaloosa
  • Posts 87
  • Votes 38
Originally posted by @Guifre Mora:
Originally posted by @Samuel Kunzman:

Hello, I am trying to determine whether the interest on a cash out refinance for an investment property is tax deductible. I know on your home if you do a cash out refinance that you have to spend the new delta of loan proceeds on your home for the new interest, above the original loan amount of interest, to be tax deductible. Been asking around and not getting a straight answer so any help here would be much appreciated!

Natalie Kolodij (Moderator) - Accountant from Charlotte, NC

replied about 14 hours ago

Originally posted by @John Kwon :

So interest rates are tanking so I was about to refinance and take cashout from some properties.

But, speaking with my accountant, I found out that interest on the refi will not be tax deductible because I am not planning to improve the property.

So this mean that BRRRR method is no longer a good method at least from tax deduction point?


Thought?

The interest is deductible if you use it for a business purpose.

If you refi and use the proceeds to either improve an existing property you own or buy a new one- then we use what's called "interest tracing" per the IRS and we deduct it against its qualifying use.

Natalie Kolodij

 I have a question about interest tracing. 

My current loan is a SFH I have had for 7 years. I still owe $75k on the current loan for this property. Now lets say I cash out refi and take out a new loan for $100k and just deposit the $25k minus closing costs into a bank account. Can I write off all the interest expense? Will interest tracing allow me to write off the interest on the original $75k that I still currently owe but not the full $100k?

I am going to consult my CPA but wanted some knowledge before hand.