All Forum Posts by: Michael G.

Wholesaling start-up costs are pretty low. $1000 to $1500 for bandit signs is a good start. Another $600 for a start-up direct mail campaign. Spending that amount can generate another $7K - 12k on your first campaign. There are a lot of good posts on wholesaling on BP but since you are so unfamiliar with it I would get acquainted with the discipline first. You can always call me direct. I love to talk about wholesaling.

Some other posters made some good points about investing in upstate NY. Considering you live in NYC, investing in Buffalo buy and holds is not a bad idea IF you know what you are doing and where to invest. You say you know the areas in and around Buffalo but there are some nuances to cash flow properties and investing in them can bite you hard if you are unsavvy. One that immediately comes to mind is selecting the right property management company. Selecting the wrong one can cost you thousands ($$$$) of dollars if they mis-manage your property. (Fake repairs or inflated repair costs, not filling your vacancies in a timely fashion, not actively managing your vacant property leaving you susceptible for break -ins.) ***don’t get me started on property management com

I did a good amount of investing in Rochester NY back in 2005 when you could buy houses for 30K and the seller would hold a note for 15K of that purchase price. Again...its 5 hours from NYC driving and you have to be super confident in the property managers ability to manage your property.

Allentown PA on the other hand offers buy and holds in the same price point but is only 2 hours away driving so you can easily self-manage the properties if you want IF they are in good shape.

@Andy Cross

No I never received an answer from @Justin Stamper

I can only imagine he's getting pocket listings but he left out certain details. He never specified if he's buying these deals himself with his own cash and then reselling or flipping contracts. .

He said he goes fat escrows which would allude to the idea that he's using his own money.

I would think paying closing costs when buying these properties would eat up ones wholesaling fee but who knows.

Funny you should bring this topic up

A wholesaler contacted me the other day. He said he had a deal but when I queried him on the repair numbers and the ARV he was shaky at best.

I do my do diligence and find out the the property is on the NLS for 20K less than his wholesale price.

When I contacted him hours later and told him the property was on the MLS his response was "Really".

He did admit he was new but I told him the best way to alienate your buyers is to bring them deals that they can find themselves on the MLS for a price less than what you are selling it for.

Good luck with the TLOXP process.

@Andrew Michael -

tloxp.com - Cheap but very accurate. It's $2 per search + a $60 buy -in fee. They send out an inspector.  You have to make sure you have a separate room with a lock on the door and also with a cabinet that locks and a laptop with a password. Reason being is that you have access to peoples SS numbers with this service so they don't want a security issue or chance of identity theft. You will get cell phones numbers all day. The findtheseller.com site is also very accurate and you will get cell phone numbers but its expensive. the ussearch.com is horrible for cell phone numbers. It's good for finding people's current addresses and not always so good at that.

Let me give you my unsolicited opinion about vacants. I've been down this road with vacants so many times before. The people who vacate houses do not want to be found. When you do find them working with them is such a pain in the ***. They seemingly have a mindset that the house problem will just go away because they left the property vacant. The whole issue will just disappear into thin air. No one can find me and I'm invisible. So when I show up wanting to help them, they are of the mindset that they don't need my help because they have essentially removed themselves from the equation by vacating the house.

I hope you have better luck with them my friend.

@Rick Harmon - You are right. I may have alienated everyone. I got a little over passionate. I hear you and thank you for your input.

@Account Closed -  A bit of a harsh exchange between us my friend.  As I step back and look at it you make some good points. Apologies if I offended you. Thank you for your commentary.

I study marketing. I was hoping to get a response from some people who have actually made money using similar direct mail marketing techniques. Specifically "marketing to probate attorneys". You have BP'ers responding saying …

"I have had some success with probate business, as a Listing Realtor."

or

”I have had lots of success marketing for Probates. I have a template."

Did I ask for an opinion about anything except SUCCESS marketing to PROBATE ATTORNEYS?

@Bradley Cochrane: You are right. I did ask for opinions. People give their opinions irrespective of if they are specific to the topic or not. You sound like you just want to hear yourself talk. How do you know I haven't already written a letter that resembles the one you describe? (I have). Have you ever generated income from direct mail to probate attorneys or any direct mail piece at all? (I have…several times). What makes you think you are qualified to give me advice when you don’t have a track record of direct mail marketing specifically to probate attorneys? You never asked me how many times I’ve sent the mail piece. Do you even know the value of asking that specific question as it pertains to direct mail marketing? You speak about bandit signs like you know something about them? Have you ever generated a piece of income from a “we buy houses” bandit sign? If you haven’t then maybe you should not comment on them. I just got a $7,800 dollar check that was spawned from one of those signs. Plenty of people on BP that use bandit signs would fine your comments regarding bandits ignorant. It’s not your fault…you don’t know, what you don’t know.

For the record I would never pay YOU to write me a mail piece until you proved that it could garner a response and until you proved it successful.

@Kim Knox: You think framing my value around quick cash sales won’t work especially with probate attorneys? You did read the segment of my post where I said I had some success already with probate attorneys. I’ll give you one guess how I positioned myself in the letter he responded to. Please tell me you have had some success marketing to probate attorneys and that’s why you responded to my post? Are you speaking from a factual place when you state that attorneys want homes on the open market to create as much competition as possible or is it just your own thought? Have you ever even interacted with a probate attorney that has an estate property that the estate could not sell due to distress? (I have…on three different occasions). If you have never interacted with a probate attorney on these matters what are you basing your findings on?

I'm still wondering how you find Bradley's comments useful and accurate when he's never generated any REI income from any of his activities. He's a newbie. How exactly are his comments useful and accurate when hes never made money marketing in real estate?

Bradley admittedly hasn’t made a dime in real estate but he’s attempting to give me advice…please.

I am a licensed realtor so I would be interested in any template you have that would garner me listings.

For that, I will thank you in advance.

@Rick Harmon. I am a former GKIC gold member so I know a little bit about direct mail marketing. I don’t really need you to lecture me on what books to read and what order to read them in. What would help me immediately is if you have a direct mail piece specifically for probate attorneys that I could copy. Was the fact lost on you that I’ve had some success marketing to probate attorneys in the past? If you had asked me to send you a copy of the letter that worked in the past I guess I could respect your response. You mention sending a crappy flyer in a cheap envelope. Are you saying that the envelope has to be made of linen paper to get the mail piece opened? My letter is sent on 26 lb. bright white paper. The envelope is had written on a standard # 10 Staples envelope. You can’t see it but the paragraph “Did your probate client inherit a distressed property that doesn’t look very nice, needs repairs and that won’t sell quickly using the NORMAL real estate broker methods? is written in red bold font in the actual letter. You paint yourself as this SME on all things probate but I call BS. All this talk of being an outsider means what? I was an outsider when I got the responses from the last 2 probate attorneys that called me. They both decided to do business with me based on a telephone conversation so what’s your point? SMH. Of all the BP's critiquing my DM piece I would expect you of all people to ask, at a minimum how many times the piece went out.

Shout out to @Marina Wedge who was the only person who has so far provided any value to my post by sending me a phone script she has her VA's use with attorneys. Thank you Marina. You actually get it.

@Bradley Cochrane -  Thank you for your opinion.  My post title is pretty straight to the point. It asks if anyone has had any success in marketing to probate attorneys. Have you had any success in marketing to probate attorneys or any success in direct mail marketing at all? Can you share an experience where you had SUCCESS in acquiring a probate lead through direct mail marketing and closing a deal? Do you have any such experiences that could help me? Maybe you have a letter that has worked for you in the past? Are you a seasoned investor /marketer that is capable of sharing such experiences? The second paragraph says WE BUY DISTRESSED HOMES FOR CASH! How much more straight to the point can it be?

I set the hook early in the letter for a reason. It's designed to deliver the message that I'm a cash buyer of distressed properties. 

When you critique my letter you say "I would start out by quickly introducing yourself and explaining what your goals are. Then maybe quickly sum up your experience...etc,etc,etc".

Listen man...if you can show me proof that a letter that you have written, that looks and sounds like that, has produced some revenue for you in your business than I will be willing to listen and actually use it. Try providing some meaningful feedback like @Marina Wedge who commented that she had some success marketing to probate attorneys and to PM her for the script. 

From the looks of your profile you are a newbie. You should probably refrain from dispensing advice to seasoned investors.  It might be ok with others but I personally find it annoying. 

It appears you are just trying to be helpful but you are not.  

@Adrian Tilley - Thanks for that info. It makes sense what you are saying but in my letter I'm not suggesting that they don't list the property. I'm suggesting that if they are having no success with selling a financially or physically distressed property we have a solution.

@Bradley Cochrane - I'm not asking the attorneys to give me their clients information. I'm merely proposing a solution to them as a way of helping their clients dispose of a financially or physically distressed in a somewhat elegant fashion.

Below is the body of the letter.  Let me know your thoughts.

*****Did your probate client inherit a distressed property that doesn’t look very nice, needs repairs and that won’t sell quickly using the NORMAL real estate broker methods?

WE BUY DISTRESSED HOMES FOR CASH!

Maybe…

The house needs too many major repairs or is physically very outdated.

Or… The decedent owed more on the house than it is currently worth or has a reverse mortgage.

Or…The estate does not want to wait and would like an immediate cash settlement.

Fact is, we will buy ANY probate real estate for cash. Ugly or pretty houses. Financially distressed or not. Any condition. Any situation.

We have more than a few satisfied customers that will testify about how we have engineered real estate solutions for them in difficult situations including but not limited to distressed estate properties.

If any of the above probate scenarios seem familiar please call me at 1-631-954-1958. ******

@Robert Davidson - Thanks for your response.  I am a licensed realtor and I always send my business card which is a very professional heavy stock card with embossed raised lettering. Even if I were not a licensed realtor(which I wasn't at the time) I don't see the liability in selling to a company that provides the benefit of buying a house in as-is condition, quickly for cash. with no contingencies except clear title. That was the message I believe they were attracted to. I'm sure they advised their client that the house would never sell through traditional marketing methods via a licensed realtor. The house was a total demo complete with the not just the proverbial hole in the roof...it actually had a visible wide gaping hole in the roof.

@Troy Fisher - Thank you for stating the obvious.

I've previously had some success direct mail marketing to probate attorneys for leads on distressed properties.

It was over a year ago but it did produce 1 deal worth a $10k assignment fee on a distressed property.

The one attorney that responded gave me that deal and referred me to another attorney who had a similar deal. (that one fell through)
 
I recently restarted that campaign but with a different letter.

So far I've gotten no response after 2 mailings. I'm starting to think its the letter I'm using however I wated to find out if anyone has had success with marketing to probate attorneys?

How about divorce attorneys?