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All Forum Posts by: Carl W.

Carl W. has started 20 posts and replied 87 times.

Quote from @Adam Bartomeo:

Our only response to our tenants in these situations is, 

Please contact your rents insurance agent, they should be able to help you...


Got it. Thanks for the feedback.
Quote from @Kevin Sobilo:
Quote from @Carl W.:
Quote from @Kevin Sobilo:
Quote from @Carl W.:

Hello all,

I had repairs done in tenant's unit and they had a meltdown over damaged property. Tenant still seems to believe I am responsible for their personal items. (We've had a prior incident but tenant dropped it after I said no.) But when I said no this time, tenant wanted to exchange words with the contractor. I felt that was inappropriate. Apparently, the two parties had a conversation before work even started after concern was expressed by the tenant. Tenant took contractor's word that everything was fine and did nothing. (The particular area the contractor was working in was clear so the contractor felt confident that things were indeed fine.) However, damage occurred anyway as a result of the nature of the work being performed. My response to the tenant was that expressed concern meant risk was known beforehand and proper steps should've been taken to protect property regardless.

I'm struggling to find a nice way to reinforce the fact that I am not responsible for tenant's personal items. I've already referred them back to their lease agreement. I thought this issue was resolved after the last incident.

I now dread having repairs done in the unit. I feel like I need to stay and supervise every second to make sure personal property is protected. Not to mention, it's becoming increasely difficult to find people who'll agree to return to the unit to perform repairs due to tenant's behavior.

How would you handle this?

@Carl W., first off you never state who should be paying for the damage? You seem to be putting the responsibility on the tenant but the tenant just listened to the contractor. 

The contractor is responsible. A licensed and insured contractor has insurance coverage for damage they cause while doing their work. So, if its a small claim they should pay it out of pocket otherwise they should turn it over to their insurance to pay.

If you hired someone uninsured, then of course that falls on you.

I'm not sure, but from a who is responsible to who standpoint, since the tenant contracts with you for the rental, you may be responsible to pay the tenant and then get reimbursed from your contractor. That is probably the best way to handle it.


Thanks for the feedback. My only issue is the tenant is a repeat offender and was already put on notice regarding this issue. IMO, they only asked the contractor in order to shift blame. How many times can I have repairs done in their unit and they cry afterwards that they didn't know they needed to properly secure personal items? So if I'm understanding you I should completely remove myself from these situations moving forward? I'm honestly tired of being stuck in the middle.


Who were they supposed to ask what they needed to secure and what they didn't? The CONTRACTOR knew EXACTLY what the work would entail the tenant did not. You also stated that the area the contractor was working in was "clear".

In fact, the contractor could have should have moved items if need be.

If you hired a painting contractor to paint a room, that MIGHT include them moving all the furniture, covering it etc to protect it. So, contractors deal with this issue themselves all the time.

If the contractor broke one of the windows would that also be the tenant's fault or would it be your fault for not removing the window before the contractor did the work? OR would it be the CONTRACTOR's responsibility?!?

The contractor is responsible that is why you hire reputable licensed and insured contractors. If the tenant refused to cooperate to make the work area ready for work to begin the contractor should just walk away, if they say the work area is ready to go then that's on them whatever happens. Like I said contractors carry insurance that covers this type of issue that's what its there for.

The only way for you to remove yourself would be to hire a PM and then the PM would be in the middle. If you want to self manage your properties THIS is the work you are CHOOSING to do. So, why be frustrated by something you CHOOSE to do. That would be like ordering pizza and then complaining that the delivery guy brought you a pizza! 


I'm frustrated because I care about my property and the happiness of both parties that I'd like to continue to do business with. I turn to the boards for support, as they've been helpful in the past providing insight. Maybe there will come a point where I no longer care and it just becomes work to me too. Thanks for your feedback.

Quote from @Andrew B.:

If contractor told tenant they did not need to move their property, then the contractor is responsible for the damage. I can't believe we are having this conversation. 


If you cannot believe we're having this conversation maybe you don't need to participate in it. No one is forcing you to be here. Thanks.

Quote from @Kevin Sobilo:
Quote from @Carl W.:

Hello all,

I had repairs done in tenant's unit and they had a meltdown over damaged property. Tenant still seems to believe I am responsible for their personal items. (We've had a prior incident but tenant dropped it after I said no.) But when I said no this time, tenant wanted to exchange words with the contractor. I felt that was inappropriate. Apparently, the two parties had a conversation before work even started after concern was expressed by the tenant. Tenant took contractor's word that everything was fine and did nothing. (The particular area the contractor was working in was clear so the contractor felt confident that things were indeed fine.) However, damage occurred anyway as a result of the nature of the work being performed. My response to the tenant was that expressed concern meant risk was known beforehand and proper steps should've been taken to protect property regardless.

I'm struggling to find a nice way to reinforce the fact that I am not responsible for tenant's personal items. I've already referred them back to their lease agreement. I thought this issue was resolved after the last incident.

I now dread having repairs done in the unit. I feel like I need to stay and supervise every second to make sure personal property is protected. Not to mention, it's becoming increasely difficult to find people who'll agree to return to the unit to perform repairs due to tenant's behavior.

How would you handle this?

@Carl W., first off you never state who should be paying for the damage? You seem to be putting the responsibility on the tenant but the tenant just listened to the contractor. 

The contractor is responsible. A licensed and insured contractor has insurance coverage for damage they cause while doing their work. So, if its a small claim they should pay it out of pocket otherwise they should turn it over to their insurance to pay.

If you hired someone uninsured, then of course that falls on you.

I'm not sure, but from a who is responsible to who standpoint, since the tenant contracts with you for the rental, you may be responsible to pay the tenant and then get reimbursed from your contractor. That is probably the best way to handle it.


Thanks for the feedback. My only issue is the tenant is a repeat offender and was already put on notice regarding this issue. IMO, they only asked the contractor in order to shift blame. How many times can I have repairs done in their unit and they cry afterwards that they didn't know they needed to properly secure personal items? So if I'm understanding you I should completely remove myself from these situations moving forward? I'm honestly tired of being stuck in the middle.

Hello all,

I had repairs done in tenant's unit and they had a meltdown over damaged property. Tenant still seems to believe I am responsible for their personal items. (We've had a prior incident but tenant dropped it after I said no.) But when I said no this time, tenant wanted to exchange words with the contractor. I felt that was inappropriate. Apparently, the two parties had a conversation before work even started after concern was expressed by the tenant. Tenant took contractor's word that everything was fine and did nothing. (The particular area the contractor was working in was clear so the contractor felt confident that things were indeed fine.) However, damage occurred anyway as a result of the nature of the work being performed. My response to the tenant was that expressed concern meant risk was known beforehand and proper steps should've been taken to protect property regardless.

I'm struggling to find a nice way to reinforce the fact that I am not responsible for tenant's personal items. I've already referred them back to their lease agreement. I thought this issue was resolved after the last incident.

I now dread having repairs done in the unit. I feel like I need to stay and supervise every second to make sure personal property is protected. Not to mention, it's becoming increasely difficult to find people who'll agree to return to the unit to perform repairs due to tenant's behavior.

How would you handle this?

Quote from @Andrew Weiner:

I would not reimburse the tenant.  It sets a precedence that they can seek reimbursement from you without prior approval.  Even though things might be great now you have to hedge for the future that they could be resentful if you don't decide to pay them back for something else they do.  Maybe just a recognition that it looks great and you appreciate their keen eye or skills.


Thank you! My tenant would definitely be the type to attempt to take advantage of my generosity in the future. I'll write an email expressing my appreciation. I love that idea. :)

Quote from @Rachel Murphy:
Quote from @Carl W.:
Hmm, I wonder if this couldn't be treated like a roommate situation. I know of roommates who have a separate suite. Labeling the space as an apartment and the person as a tenant would be problematic though.

 I didn't tell her it was an apartment. I said we were just renting a room.


It's sounds like your insurance company is just choosing to err on the side of caution, which is their job. They'll say no to a hundred different things homeowners want to do with their property. People have roommates all the time, especially in these difficult times. Get yourself a "roommate" and make sure they have insurance to protect any of their valuables.

A quick Google search pulled this up:

"Typical homeowner's insurance policies will allow you to have a two to three roommates or boarders without additional coverage."



I gave my tenant permission to make an improvement to the building. I didn't think anything of it because it seemed like a minor request at the time. I saw the improvement the other evening and I was very happy with the results and installation. I like it so much I'm thinking I should reimburse the tenant for the cost. This is my first time dealing with a tenant improvement and I'd like to know how other landlords handle it. I never thought to improve the building in this way since it does not benefit me at all. It was strictly done for their benefit. Thanks!

Hmm, I wonder if this couldn't be treated like a roommate situation. I know of roommates who have a separate suite. Labeling the space as an apartment and the person as a tenant would be problematic though.
Quote from @Richard F.:
Aloha,

100% agree, Renters Insurance issue, not yours. By virtue of them informing you of an issue, they had "notice" of the issue and needed to mitigate for damages.

Just for kicks and giggles, please define what "piece of the ceiling" actually consisted of, type and size, Inquiring minds want to know.

Think medium-sized pizza. Large enough for you to want to move your valuables from underneath it.