All Forum Posts by: Jamie Keeton

It clearly sounds like he has the ever so wonderful "wall" put up when it comes to you. I see this very often with the elderly, who are set in their ways and also with people who are of a foreign language. Once they dont understand, the wall goes up and nothing I say is ever true. Then I realize it is time for me to deal directly with their realtor, lender or attorney. A lot of times realtors call us and have the same issues and ask us just to call the buyer/seller, see how things are going and slip in what is supposed to be happening. You have to walk these people thru with baby steps.

And if you are dealing with REO, a lot of the banks are now requiring proof that the closing/title company has received those funds. They are not releasing their signed contracts until they verify this.

(SIDE NOTE): Before sending, always confirm where to send the check to and what type of funds are required (wire, personal, certified). It's never fun tracking down a lost EMD check. With the "good funds law", many are limiting the type of funds they will accept these days...

Hi Mark,

Most states start the clock from the recording date of the prior deed. Not the news you wanted, but that is the common case.

As for your deed, I understand the title company not releasing it for risk/liability reasons. But did they at least agree to put as much attention to as they possibly could? Such as federal expressing the documents? Following up regularly to see if this particular recording/transfer can be pushed to the top of the list? Also, I know that most counties process these on the spot when they walk them thru. Could they have had their examiner walk them thru, or a closer, or an employee? I have utilized these options for our buyers to help expedite the transfer and recording process. Also, I have contacted the clerks, sent it to one county clerk and told them to expect the buyer to come thru to process it. Sometimes that works.

I know this is all in retrospect, but hopefully it will give you some ideas on your future purchases. PS. We have Ohio, Michigan, PA offices that cover that region. Feel free to add me as a colleague and ask for input anytime!

Originally posted by Steve Babiak:

Originally posted by Chris Martin:

... The simple solution is to always get title insurance for REO purchases. ...

Title insurance is NOT sufficient, as the title report can come with exceptions; you can agree to accept the property "subject to" those exceptions remaining in place.

The only way is to be sure that the title report comes back clear with no exceptions; then, YES title insurance will protect your interest.

Possibly you have to see what we see from the title side to understand the importance of title insurance. But I can say that if you have a title company that is constantly throwing title exceptions your way, they arent doing their diligence of clearing those issues. Title exceptions are not the way to go unless a buyer chooses to close with those issues and resolve them later. A good title company will clear those issues and communicate with you and all parties along the way. To say that title insurance is NOT sufficient, I have to counter and say "that" title company is what isnt sufficient. :D

Wow... I must say that I am entering this conversation with my head between my legs, as title company manager. I am with a full service title company but we specialize in REO closings. About 8,000 nationally for 2009.

I would like to add my two cents in because 1) hopefully it will confirm that not all of us are bad guys and 2) hopefully it will help you with your future transactions.

1) The seller can dictate who the title company is. However, the buyer always has the option to choose their own title company. As stated above, the seller does in fact remove some of their incentives, such as paying for title insurance. What we do when we find out that someone would rather close with their own title company, we disclose about the possibility of the seller not paying for the title insurance. If they are aware and feel that they would rather pay the insurance and close with their company, we do not "force" them to close with us. We then coordinate with their title company. We close the seller side and they close the buyer side.

2) Shop around with other title companies to see what they are charging. Yes I said that out loud. But I can say that comfortably because our rates are very competitive. Find out up front before signing the contracts what the seller's title co. charges and then see if you can find something more to your expectations. If so, proceed with your title company. From the moment we receive the executed contract, we send out opening letters introducing ourselves and our fees. My employees have 2 days to get this to the realtors and the buyer's lender. This allows for you to address any issues concerning our fees or our company as early as possible.

3) A title company MUST act as a neutral party. Regardless of who the title order came from, both parties are to be represented in the transaction. It is really not that difficult. As a settlement agent, we must comply with the contract terms, buyer's lender terms, and the seller's terms if they are in compliance with the contract.

4) I am curious... when I hear that people are being charged $800 and that doesnt include the title insurance. That sounds excessive. I have personally worked in Ohio, Indiana, Kentucky and Florida. In Ohio, line 1101 to the buyer is usually $200-$400. Down here in Florida, we are required to bundle our fees and it is usually $300-$400. I have seen some companies charging $700.

When your buyer is being charged $800, are they putting all of that on the buyer side or is the $800 split $400 buyer and $400 seller? We offer a lot of services as a convenience to ALL parties on our transactions, such as log in that allows you pretty much full access to our notes and documents. However, we do not charge the buyer and seller for the costs we are paying for this service on the back end.

I see that some "DEMAND" the title company do this or that. In my experience, demanding something usually turns us off. Now if you call and provide legit reasonings as to why your client NEEDS some help on the fees and approach the conversation sympathetically, you will get more results in fee reductions. I recently gave a $100 title credit to a purchaser paying $250,000.00 CASH (no lender). Do we really think he needs a $100 title credit since he can pay $250K in cash? Probably not, but he explained his position and experiences and was KIND. So I granted his wish. But today, I had a mortgage broker charge $4,000 in misc charges who said the buyer was hurting on funds to close and wanted us to close for free. I asked how much he was willing to contribute in addition and all of a sudden it was no longer an issue.

All of this I take into consideration and hopefully I have provided you a new outlook or understanding.

Hi Nic,

I personally havent went down the tax lien road, but I do see a lot of these in Florida and I used to see some in Indiana. In Florida, it's pretty much gauranteed money from what I can see (I am not an expert on this). I THINK the downside is that in order to make a living, you would have to purchase up many of these tax certs and then wait for the end reward to come thru.Here is some information I obtained using a quick search...

Tax Lien Certificates - Tax Deed Sales In Florida FL

Florida is an excellent state for tax lien certificate sales. Here is a summary of information for tax sales in Florida:

Interest Rate: 18%

Redemption Period: 2 years

Florida tax lien auctions: Most county tax lien sales are in May and June

Florida tax deed sales: Florida also conducts many tax deed sales

Bidding Process: All tax lien auctions are by competitive bid.

State Specific Information: Florida is probably one of the most famous tax lien states because the interest rate of 18% per year is favorable and if the property goes to foreclosure, the redemption period of 2 years is short.

Florida also has many tax deed sales and these sales can be lucrative in counties were the number of bidders is limited.

I am going to be the forebearer of bad news here... but "NO". Just because there was a foreclosure does not mean that title is clear. I deal with this day in and day out and even moreso today. The foreclosure attorneys are also capable of mistakes and many times items that must be addressed (brought into) the foreclosure are not. Do not let anyone tell you that just because there was a foreclosure that the title was cleared as a result of...

Also, some bank sellers take title as a result of a "deed in lieu". This means the foreclosed party deeded the property to the bank (seller). In this case, there is no "foreclosure" process and therefore nothing gets cleared.

I am very thankful you asked this question! Got my vote...

Sounds like the answers were obtained and some great ones at that!!! Nice answers.

I take issue with the fact that the listing agent is asking someone to sign something that they cannot explain. That's a sure tell sign that the transaction could be a bumpy one. Any person signing a contract should never sign unless they fully understand and agree to it. Period. Exclamation Point! So if you are not sure, please, please please have your questions answered before signing. It will save you a lot of headache/heartache down the road.

#2. As previously stated... these banks, FC attorneys and counties are so far behind on getting the titles into their name. I have done Ohio, Kentucky, Indiana and Florida and this is across the board. This clause just implies that their title deed may have not yet been recorded to reflect them as owner. The title company cannot close until this completed.

3 & 4... there are going to be several hands in the pot when dealing with REO. You have the bank seller, the Servicing company, the asset manager... Until it goes thru the chain of all those parties and their internal processes. Some asset managers sign off on anything and then the actual seller gets it and may take issue.

Thanks for checking on this before just signing. It's good you are looking out for you and your clients in this manner of detail. Pay close attention to the REO contract that pertains to concessions... make sure it is what you were seeking in your initial contract.

I think you should really be careful. If you do not know the listing agent, it could also be a disadvantage. You would have to make sure that the listing agent isnt only telling you what you want to hear in order to get another sale under their belt and commission check. I think there are an enormous amount of great realtors out there, but how do you know if you are dealing with the most honest realtor unless you get to know them.

From my personal experience, I had a dual agent during my closing and they convinced me to use their inspectors. Everything passed with the exception of a few cosmetics. Then my heat and air immediately went out, electrical wiring had to be replaced and the roof began to leak. I never outwardly blamed the agent or the inspector, but it was very hard not to keep thinking I had been duped as a first time homebuyer.

Originally posted by Stephani:

You can ask for a 30 day inspection period, but it will weaken your offer quite a bit.

There is a lot of competition right now for REOs, so you want to make your offer as clean as possible. If you must use an inspection period, try to keep it short and sweet.

Steph

Isnt that the truth! The more stips and contingencies you request, the further to the bottom of the list your offer goes.