All Forum Posts by: Bob Daniels

What exactly is the correlation between paying taxes, and paying rent?  You seem to be under the impression that because people don't pay their taxes, that they won't pay their rent, or are at a higher risk to not pay.  When the reality is likely that they represent a lower risk of not paying.  

By their very nature, illegals tend to want to live a low profile lifestyle to not draw attention to themselves.  There is a legitimate fear that by submitting information to the IRS and informing them that they have an ITIN, that they are alerting the government about their illegal status and therefore are drawing attention to themselves which is one reason why many people don't file.  

If they fail to pay rent, they draw attention to themselves and they know that very quickly it will lead to evictions, and court proceedings which they will avoid at all cost because they know that their risk of being detected and deported rises dramatically in this scenario.  As such I have never had anyone I suspected of being illegal pay late, not even a single day late.

You mentioned sex offenders, however sex offenders are a risk to other people around them, illegal immigrants are not inherently dangerous to anyone.  It is for this reason that it is likely unwise to fill up your rental properties with sex offenders as it could create a dangerous neighborhood and the associate problems that come with it.  There is no such problem with filling up your rentals with immigrants.

Of all of the responses in this thread, and the numerous other threads on this forum that talk about similar topics, there is one common element to all of the responses.  And that is that people who are suspected of being illegal immigrants are often the best tenants that the landlord has ever had.  So if hundreds of landlords are telling you that they are the best tenant ever and have nothing bad to say about them, then where exactly is the risk?

 There is a certain amount of risk to renting to anyone, no matter how good your screening methods are there is still a chance that you get a bad apple.  However from my experience, and the experience of others, illegals tend to make excellent tenants.

No offense, but it sounds like you are the one turning it into an emotional issue.  After being confronted with the fact that you were wrong about illegals obtaining an ITIN and being able to verify them, you then changed your tune to 'its probably stolen', and 'they are likely in violation of other laws'.  

There is a term used for painting broad generalizations of negative aspects about a particular demographic, and then treating an individual differently because they belong to that particular demographic.  

Do some people file taxes with the wrong information?  Yes.  But so what?  In the case of renting an apartment, there is verification in the form of background checks, credit checks, employment screening and bank statements etc.  It is very easy to see if the person is who he says he is because you know, your actually verifying it!  The IRS doesn't have the luxury of asking for all of this additional information, so it is easy to write a random SSN or ITIN on a hardcopy form and mail it in with a check.

Being in Phx I have undoubtedly rented to many illegal immigrants over the years.  I can't be sure because I don't ask since their status is irrelevant to me.  However I will say that the tenants that I have suspected of being illegal, have been far and away my best tenants ever.  I would 100x rather rent to an illegal who can prove a consistant income history over a millennial with their 'emotional support animal' BS. 

I have never, not once, had anyone I suspected of being illegal pay late or abandoned a lease without notice.  They have always paid in full and on time because they do not want to draw attention to themselves.  They don't come up with excuses of why rent is late this month, they don't give me the run-around, they don't ask for a million trivial items to be fixed in the house, they simply pay on time, every time.  If it ever got to the point of an eviction, things could theoretically get very bad for them so they avoid it at all costs.  While it is true there is limited recourse if they suddenly decide to leave for whatever reason, the same can be said about the overwhelming majority of tenants.  At the end of the day a lease is  just a piece of paper.  Unless you live in a state that allows for wage garnishment, even if you are able to obtain a court ruling in your favor that doesn't necessarily mean anything.

The cost and effort to obtain a judgement, is almost universally not worth it given the small amount of money you will ever recoup.  


However, if an illegal did for whatever reason simply up and leave (either willingly or after being deported), you would still likely come out just fine. You may lose a months worth of rent and need to re-rent the place, but in return you would likely keep the security deposit. Either because your state allows you to keep it for unpaid rents, or because you mailed a certified check to their last known address and it was never cashed, and therefor stayed in your bank account.  

Personally I will continue not caring about their immigration status, and you can continue to call me amateur.  But one thing is for certain; I've always collected my rent on time.

 You can't threaten to call the authorities on illegal immigrants.  

http://www.equalhousing.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/Immigration-FAQ-Fact-Sheet.pdf



What can I do if a landlord or neighbor
is threatening me?
It is illegal to coerce, intimidate, threaten, or interfere with a
person’s exercise or enjoyment of rights granted or protected
by the Fair Housing Act. This includes threats to report a
person to U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) if
they report housing discrimination to HUD. HUD does not
inquire about immigration status when investigating claims of
housing discrimination.



https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/23/nyregion/immigrants-tenants-rights.html

Link to a court ruling where a judge fined a landlord 17k for threatening to call ICE.

You may want to double check that claim before calling people amateur landlords, per the IRS own website:  

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-utl/20-Immigration%20and%20Taxation.pdf

• Individuals eligible for an ITIN include:
– Unauthorized immigrants,
– Lawfully present individuals, and
– U.S. resident aliens/nonresident aliens

IRS issues ITINs to help individuals comply with the U.S. tax laws, and to provide a means to efficiently process and account for tax returns and payments for those not eligible for Social Security numbers. They are issued regardless of immigration status, because both resident and nonresident aliens may have a U.S. filing or reporting requirement under the Internal Revenue Code. ITINs do not serve any purpose other than federal tax reporting.

Additionally, the IRS is bound by law to not disclose the immigration status of people filing their taxes to other agencies such as the Department of Homeland Security. 

https://www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/research/facts-about-individual-tax-identification-number-itin
Many illegal immigrants have a legally obtained ITIN.  Illegal immigrants can pay taxes just like everyone else if they choose to.  

Additionally, it is relatively commonplace for illegal immigrants to share documents with family members who have legal status, or they simply stole a number from someone else.  So that SSN card that you "verified" could easily be someone else's card, and not the actual applicants.  

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/washington-secrets/illegal-immigrants-cited-in-theft-of-39-million-social-security-numbers

Also, while you are (generally) allowed to ask about immigration status (some states actually forbid asking), you must still abide by fair housing laws which means you would have to ask every single one of your applicants to prove their citizenship, not just people you suspect may be illegal.  

While there is very little recourse if they are deported, the chances of your renter being deported is virtually non-existent.  The overwhelming majority of deportations are of those that are caught at the border, or are caught committing crimes.  They obviously weren't caught at the border if they are renting from you, and if they committed a crime then they would be going to jail anyway so either way you would be screwed.  Many illegals live a low key lifestyle to avoid being targeted, and there is a high likelihood that they will be a much better renter than anyone else that you will find.

As soon as I am put on ICE's payroll, I will start caring about peoples immigration status, until then it's none of my business.  It's the governments job to enforce immigration laws, not mine.

75% doesn't sound too far fetched, remember you are financing 96.5% of the deal, so you are highly leveraged in addition to paying an addition fee in the way of PMI. This means that your monthly payments are going to be much higher than if you did a traditional 20% down payment with no PMI.

There's only two numbers that matter, what price is he willing to sell for, and how much are you willing to pay.  You go with the lower of the two numbers.  If he wants more than what makes fiscal sense to you, then you simply walk away and reengage him at a later date to see if he has changed his mind on the property.  

Other then that, I've found that the more I listen and the less I talk, the better the negotiations go.  Figure out what's going on in his life and play on those situations and emotions.  He have kids living in another state?  Ask him how great it would be to be able to relocate closer and be able to spend more quality time with family etc.  Plant reasons why he should move other than the fact that you want to buy his house for as little as possible.  Once he expresses at least some interest, find out what he is willing to sell it for before you tip your hat and let him know what you would offer.  It's just like poker, the last person to act has an intrinsic advantage.  If you start the conversation by saying you will buy the home for 275k, and he was willing to sell it for 250, then you just left money on the table by opening your big mouth too soon.

While anything is possible, it's not likely that he is going to sell his home for less than half the fair market value. Usually the killer deals like this are due to pending foreclosures, or some other time sensitive life event where they need to sell immediately and can't wait 30+ days for a traditional closing. After all, why sell it to you for 150 when he could sell it on the MLS in a week for 275 - 299 and close a month later?

Personally I buy a lot of my deals subject to the existing loan, which often means I need a bare minimum amount of money up front to gain control of the property.  Because of this, I can theoretically offer significantly more money than any other investor since my initial cash outlay is so low.  The only thing I really care about is 'Am I buying this property for under fair market value'.  Obviously a bigger discount is always better, but I'll buy properties with even a small margin if the terms are good enough.

Personally I would throw his crap as haphazardly as I could back across the boundary line on the morning that I erected the fence.  Don't throw it away or else they could potentially have a civil claim.

I wouldn't worry too much about Bernie and his proposals.  He won't win the democratic nomination much less the national election. 

Also I doubt his plans would stand up in court.  I would imagine that taxing someone 2% on the property value just because their home is empty wouldn't fly.  

Unless you plan on working for someone else and need something to put on a resume, a degree (in anything) is useless.  The only thing that matters is actual knowledge.  While it takes 4 years to obtain a bachelors degree in real estate, a real estate license can be knocked out in a matter of weeks or months and will teach you the majority of the same things as the degree would.  

For anyone serious about real estate, about the only degrees I would recommend would be high earning potential degrees such as computer science, engineering etc.  It's 10x easier to invest in real estate and get banks to deal with you when you have a significant paying W2 job.