All Forum Posts by: Nat C.

OK what I am talking about is called EArly issue title insurance and might be just an Oregon thing.. one main reasons is the lenders require it on new construction.. BECAUSE properly file Materialmen liens are super liens they jump ahead of everything but tax's and IRS or state income tax liens. 

Foreclosures are totally different.. your buying without title insurance and we know that.. I have bought hundreds of properties at trustee sherrif sales none with title insurance of course.. and i have bought well over 200 properties of sub too pre foreclosure with NO title insurance.  its a risk we take. 

I have had in 45 years  3 title claims that all paid off..  2 were land lock situation.. one just cleared this summer after 3 years of litigation the title company paid for.. 10 acres 3 buildable lots value 600k.. land locked value Zero.. :) ..  They sued the neighbor and worked out an arrangement with the state to get me an insurable access.. I suspect they paid well over 50 to 75k in legal fee's for me. 

Another was also one where they missed he right away and they bought me a right of way not sure what it cost them on that one.

Had one last year in Indy were they missed that the house had major code violations and had to be either moved or demo'd..  they paid me off on that one 90k .. 

So 2 of the title claims last 5 years..  the other one was about 20 years ago..   On the props I bought without title insurance I did fine on.. never lost on those.. I have lost on foreclosures though.. again another story for another thread..  lots can happen .. cheap E O reports don't catch everything that's for certain.. but when your buying like we were if we lost  on a deal was not the end of the world.. some investors that would be devastating..  

I have had a title company pay off a missed lien that was about 100k.  I've done 500 transactions so that's not that frequent.  However, it was easier to roll the premium in as an expense for each deal, over coming up with 100k that one time.  If you have the ability to cover a big expense, stay self insured and don't buy title insurance.  It's like me not insuring my paid off truck that's worth 60k and knowing I may have to replace it out of my pocket.  I might wreck it, so it's insured. 

@Nat Chan

Why buy title insurance if they don't cover you for claims such as you describe? I've bought homes without title insurance from the Trustee auction which requires me to do some due diligence and buy a $5 O&E report from the title company. Never had an issue. ( don't construe this as advise) In fact as long as I've been investing in REI I have never come across any stories where a title company covers a loss. @Jay Hinrichs do you have any stories where a title co covers a loss?

@Nat Chan the water company likely has a dispute process. Follow it. It’ll take months, but you might be surprised.

I phoned with the water company here about a meter that read zero for 3 years with the prior owner. They kept telling me that the bill goes with the property. I filed my dispute, had an in-person review, where they told me ‘oh, it’s not your usage, you don’t need to pay’.

Could have saved hours of hassle on both sides if they said that up front. But in the end, it was a $1,200 savings. Not enough to lawyer up over, but enough to fight it. Other than taking months, it was easy!

I had a rental property where the tenant left without paying the final water bill.  When I found the water meter locked I contacted the government owned utility and explained the tenant, who had contracted for the service, had left and the utility immediately had the lock removed and restored the service.

I would be surprised if there ever was a recorded lien since there's really no need for one. The utilities company simply refuses to turn the water on until the account is brought current. If you had discussed it with the company before closing they might have waived or reduced the bill since it was incurred by someone else but since you paid it and so much time has gone by I doubt they would refund anything but it never hurts to try. Failing that, go back and read the contract and see if you might have any recourse against the Seller. If I'm correct about there not being a lien, I believe title to the property is and was marketable and I don't know what your cause of action against the Seller would be. I think you had the ability to check with the utilities company before closing to verify if there was a balance due. I also believe that's generally part of a purchaser's due diligence. However, if you decide to sue for damages I would probably bring a small claims action and name the LLC and the individual who signed the contract and deed and see what happens. I'm not an attorney and this is not legal advice, just one man's opinion.

If you bought an owner's title insurance policy, file a claim.  Title insurance covers liens that were missed at close from when you bought property back to when God created the Earth.