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All Forum Posts by: Account Closed

Account Closed has started 10 posts and replied 115 times.

Post: Collateralizing Owner finance notes

Account ClosedPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Austin, TX
  • Posts 118
  • Votes 98

@Brad Crawford Unfortunately don't have anything too helpful, but 2 things I've seen are

1) I recently met with a rehabber in San Antonio who owner finances homes. He has a long-standing relationship with a local bank who finances most of their flips, so because the bank knew a lot about the properties already, and they have a long relationship, they were willing to finance the notes

2) I've seen several note funds on BP who have investors, but instead of a typical profit split arrangement, the fund just promises the investor a fixed return (8-12%) and a senior, unsecured claim against the fund's assets (i.e., the investors are the lenders). Wonder if you could do the same if your notes are in an LLC, and the LLC doesn't have any other debt. Something to think about if you don't get anywhere with the banks..

Post: Disappointed with Granite Strategic Investments

Account ClosedPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Austin, TX
  • Posts 118
  • Votes 98

Usually funds will use this type of LOC to make the purchase, then focus on refinancing it with long-term leverage. Much like how a HELOC allows you to make quick purchases, and then you can focus on getting a 30 year mortgage in place.

Post: Disappointed with Granite Strategic Investments

Account ClosedPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Austin, TX
  • Posts 118
  • Votes 98

**"rates were <5% (incl. LIBOR) and tenors range anywhere from 1-5 years"

Post: Disappointed with Granite Strategic Investments

Account ClosedPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Austin, TX
  • Posts 118
  • Votes 98

Hi @Andy Mirza

I’ll first put a disclaimer that the only times I have seen these LOCs are for funds that raised $500MM+ and the investors are institutional (e.g., pension funds and universities). It’s possible this is done with smaller funds, but I don’t know what those terms look like (actually would be interested to hear them).

Second, I did this in a past life, so I’m not as up to date on the latest developments, this is just meant to give a high-level overview.

Third, I’ll apologize to @Bob Malecki for hijacking his thread. Watch out for Granite everyone.

Capital Call Facilities:

Most large PE funds raise money from investors, however they don't collect the cash from their investors upfront. Rather they collect signed commitment letters from investors, which say the investor will fund portions of their commitment to the Fund as requested over time. There are several reasons for this, but a main reason is that whenever the investors send cash to the fund, they are owed a certain guaranteed return (6-8%) on that amount, so funds like to manage this process and only call cash from investors when needed. However, funds then run into an issue because they need to appear to potential sellers as cash buyers, and be able to close very quickly. Calling capital from investors takes 2+ weeks usually and is an accounting mess. This is where Capital Call facilities are helpful. A bank provides the fund with a LOC, and now the fund can use that LOC to make large purchases very quickly. I've been out of this space for a bit of time, but rates were <4% (incl. LIBOR) and tenors range anywhere from 1-5 years. And then once the deal is closed, the fund will work on getting a long-term asset-level refinancing to repay the Capital Call LOC. Very similar to an investor using a HELOC to quickly purchase an asset, then going to a real estate banker to refinance the HELOC with a mortgage.

If the fund gets into trouble and can't repay, the bank has the right to turn to those investors and basically say "hey remember the commitment you are contractually obligated to send to the fund when called, well – we need to call it to pay off the LOC". If done right, the investors are already aware that this type of LOC is in place (it's usually covered in the fund's governing docs), and know they will need to fund to the lender or risk whatever repercussions are outlined in the fund docs.

Now, the reason I said I’ve only seen this with large funds with institutional investors, is because the bank is only repaid in an event of default if the investors pay up. So the bank needs to make sure the investors have significant financial wherewithal and a long track record of meeting their obligations. Obviously it’s much easier to determine this when the investors are large pension funds and schools who publish financials vs a private HNW investor.

I would categorize Capital Call facilities as more of a "bridging" facility vs true leverage. It doesn't really increase your purchasing power since the size of the LOC is based on a % of how much investor commitments have yet to be called. As the fund progresses through its life cycle it will call more and more of the investors' commitments, so the Capital Call LOC will also start reducing. But still a really useful tool if you have an institutional type fund structure. That's why I say that large institutional funds typically don't fund their purchases with cash on hand. Usually it's some form of an LOC like the above.

Hopefully that’s helpful, feel free to PM me with any specific questions. All the big banks have a team that do this, though you may have to navigate around to find the right team. Large law firms that specialize in fund formation could be another helpful resource. 

Post: Disappointed with Granite Strategic Investments

Account ClosedPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Austin, TX
  • Posts 118
  • Votes 98

@Patrick Desjardins - I can't speak for Granite's borrowing strategy, but most all of the major banks have a team dedicated to lending to pools of residential loans for large asset managers. They are generally <5 year tenor, revolving lines of credit and spread is pretty competitive (think Libor + low single digits). There are also teams who lend directly to private equity funds secured by investor commitments (google "Capital Call facilities"), again providing a cheap, 3-5 year tenor line of credit. 

Again, can't speak for Granite, but if you are a large asset manager with diverse pool of collateral, there are a lot of very cheap financing options available to you in the market these days.

Post: Notes buying and selling

Account ClosedPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Austin, TX
  • Posts 118
  • Votes 98

Whoops missed @Diane E.'s answer. Now you know!

Post: Notes buying and selling

Account ClosedPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Austin, TX
  • Posts 118
  • Votes 98

Hi @Daniel Peavey - yes if I buy a note from you, I would ensure that you endorse the Note to me and sign an Assignment Agreement to transfer the security instrument to me (in TX this would be a Deed of Trust). After that it would ultimately be my responsibility to ensure everything is properly recorded, since I would want to make sure my lien position is clearly established. 

Post: The Pain $ of Not Knowing - Contract For Deeds

Account ClosedPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Austin, TX
  • Posts 118
  • Votes 98

Generally my takeaway from this discussion was even if you have an agreement in writing and reviewed by a lawyer, taking a step back and asking yourself "is this a fair deal to the borrower" and "how would a judge look at this" is just as important as any other due diligence item.

Post: The Pain $ of Not Knowing - Contract For Deeds

Account ClosedPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Austin, TX
  • Posts 118
  • Votes 98

This is a great thread @Dion DePaoli. @Bill Gulley - I know this was from a year ago, but could you expand on your line about "funding at the table"? I thought that was really interesting since I haven't seen a lot of discussion about the legal/compliance risks of buying a note that hasn't been seasoned, but I see a lot of them for sale (or maybe I missed the discussions). If I buy a newly originated note secured by a deed of trust (so not a CFD) in an arms length transaction with a third party who is a licensed originator, but it hasn't been seasoned, are you saying a judge could take the view that I am the originating lender and I should have a license as well?

Basically just trying to understand the legal/compliance risks when you buy a note without any seasoning.

Post: Quotes or positive saying that either helped you or describe you

Account ClosedPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Austin, TX
  • Posts 118
  • Votes 98

I keep these quotes up next to my computer. The first one from Howard Marks in particular reminds me to stay grounded when looking at potential deals.

"The key to financial security - individual or societal - doesn't lie in counting on things to work in good times or on average. Rather, it consists of figuring out what can go wrong in bad times, and of only doing things that will prove survivable even if they materialize" - Howard Marks

"20 years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." - Mark Twain

"Amongst the greatest amount of chaos, comes the greatest amount of opportunity" - Seth Klarman

“Identify Opportunity. Create Value.” - World Class Capital

"What we learn from history is that people don't learn from history" - Warren Buffett

"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness" - Mark Twain