All Forum Posts by: Aaron Santas

@Greg Cobb if you are just getting started best advice is to get educated. There are tons of valuable and free resources out there on podcasts like the one @Rod Khleif does called Lifetime Cashflow Through Real Estate Investing. In this hot market it is VERY easy to make a mistake.

Eddie,

I would not recommend an exposed fastener product on a residence. The metal expands and contracts from heat and cold. This causes the holes where the screws penetrate the panels to get enlarged. This can lead to leaks and expensive repair. The rubber gaskets for the screws can also fail. This is yet another major issue. If you have a good metal guy, spend a little more and get a concealed fastener metal product.

Kool K. The better quality of shingles is the way to go if you can afford it since the labor is the same, you get a much better product without doubling the price. But this will not help the winter situation. The more important issue there is proper insulation and ventilation. The insulation needs to be adequate to separate the heat inside from the cold out side. Otherwise condensation will happen under the shingles and possibly in the framing below. 

Amy,

Using exposed fastener metal roofs on residences is definitely not a good idea for long term quality. The washers eventually will and do fail.

Concealed fastener systems are much better. However there is a considerable investment required to purchase them.

This is due to the higher cost of materials, as well as the need for more skilled installers.

BEWARE! Metal roofs cannot be installed by any roofer. They are far more prone to leaking than normal roofs. And if they leak it is much more difficult to repair. Many times resulting in large portions or even the whole roof needing to be replaced.

If you must have a metal roof, invest in a quality product installed by highly skilled craftsmen.

Marshall,

Modified bitumen is a form of asphalt roof. It is asphalt that is "Modified" with a plastic or rubber to make it more flexible, and then reinforced with a fabric. 

The life expectancy of these roofs (Depending on design and weather patterns) is 10-12 years. At least that is what the warranty is from most manufacturers. 

In the last 20 years or so the flat roofing community has been moving away from the asphalt based materials to TPO, PVC, or EPDM materials. The first two are very similar and EPDM is kind of like a heavy duty inner tube rubber. (We don't use much of this in the Northwest)

TPO and PVC have a couple of advantages over the asphalt based materials. Specifically safety. molten asphalt is dangerous, and the way you melt it can also potentially burn down your structure. 

The PVC and TPO are also clean, and light weight. The rolls of material are welded together using hot air opposed to flame which makes installation safer.

The light colors are reflective and help with cooling the building.

They also are typically more water tight in regards to flashings, drains etc.

With modified bitumen you typically have to seal to a metal flashing. Eventually these seals tend to fail. 

With TPO/PVC the flashings are coated with the same material, so when they are welded together it is a permanent bond resulting in a much longer leak resistant installation.

The life expectancy is also much longer for TPO/PVC. Some manufacturers offer 30+ year warrantees on the product.

You will typically pay more for it (15-20%) but we recommend it over modified bitumen for most low slope installations.

Aaron

The more ventilation the better. You just have to make sure that you have enough air coming in at the bottom to feed the vent at the top. If you don't and you have more exhaust than intake it causes major issues.

You need to have enough ventilation to meet code as well.

For example, if you have 50 feet of ridge vent, and the ridge vent was rated at 18" of vent per foot you would have 900 inches of exhaust. You would need to equal that at the eaves.

George,

It depends on the type of exhaust venting you are going to be doing. Smart vent is probably your best bet (Or something like it) because it is difficult to get adequate air flow with round holes.

Smart vent is tricky to install properly. Be careful!

Aaron

P.S. Is this diagram of your actual build? If so, there could be other concerns regarding ventilation.

Curtis,

Our company started as a roof replacement company. We saw the problems caused by "Roof Cleaners" and were very apprehensive about the techniques used. 

Before we started cleaning and maintaining roofs we spent years studying and seeking out different methods.

There are a couple schools of thought. Get the roof "Clean" or make the roof perform and last as long as possible. 

We focus on the latter.

Our belief is that is you allow the plant to grow, you have reduced your roof life. This is because no matter how gentle the removal process is, once the moss roots begin to grow into the roof the granules are dislodged and more UV etc. can penetrate. So we apply treatment that acts as a pre-emergent. 

As far as what to do once the plant is there, you want to remove it as gently and non-abrasively as possible. So high pressure water, and brushes are not advisable.

You also have to be careful regarding the chemicals used. Not only for the environment, but also the roof.

Tide is a detergent and the active ingredient that addresses the roof is chlorine bleach. The chlorine kills the algae on the roof. But chlorine is a corrosive chemical, and some of the components on the roof may not like it so much (Rubber gaskets, galvanized nails)

Detergents also act as surfactants. This is great for penetrating into clothing fibers and getting rid of dirt, but on roofs it can disrupt the way that water naturally flows and can allow water to go into places it normally would not. 

Other Moss killing products on the market have active ingredients like zinc and copper. Once again be careful because the fasteners and accessories may not react well to the use of these chemicals.

The best thing to do is to get as much sun on the roof as possible (Cut trees away) and keep debris such as needles and leaves off of it. If you do have a shady side, have it regularly treated with something that will deter the plant from growing so cleaning is not necessary. Preferably in an environmentally responsible way.

Aaron

John,

The amount of layers allowed varies by municipality so check with yours to be sure as to what is allowed.

In our area you can have 2 layers. The determination from the municipalities is usually based on weight, and not what is best for keeping water out of the home.

Before reading any further I do want to share that I am a landlord, and fully understand that spending extra money on a rental property is not desirable, but I will be candid with the issues of installing multiple layers of roofing based on the thousands of jobs I have participated in.

The differences in performance can be dramatic depending on what kind of material you are referring to.

Asphalt shingles:

Applying a layer over the top of another layer of asphalt shingles can save you 10-15% on the overall cost of the job if you are going over 1 layer of asphalt. But this can cost you in the long term. 

First off, if you do not remove what is there now it is impossible to determine if there is any rot in the sheeting. If there is then the fasteners used to install the roof may not hold in those areas.

Secondly, because you are now installing over an irregular surface (Which the manufacturers frown upon) you not only may have no warranty on the roof, but the shingles on top can form over the lumps underneath and crack in those areas which can lead to leaks, blow off etc.

There is also a longevity issue that this causes. 

Asphalt shingles have a granulated (rock) surface. Most people think that this is only for aesthetics. The main reason for the granules is actually to reflect heat and UV from the asphalt in the roof which gives it the water resistance, and flexibility to endure many years of weathering. The shingles do not have these granules on their back side. 

When you put one layer over the top of another layer, the heat that permeates through the top layer is reflected onto the back side of the top layer and cooks it. This dramatically reduces the longevity of the top layer. It can also compromise the seal prematurely and lead to blow off and leaks. This excess heat retention can also affect the integrity of the substrate such as plywood.

Lastly, if there is a leak from somewhere in the system, it can be very difficult to isolate and repair this because the water can enter in one area, and ride the layer below to a totally different area before appearing in the home. 

Depending on how long you hold the property, the initial 10-15% savings could cost way more in the long run.

Flat roofing:

Flat roofs are more forgiving in regards to additional layers in regards to longevity, but you have the same issues with leak detection, and covering up rot.

Hope this helps!

Aaron

multiple companies due to acquisition.

The field material shows signs of wear that give clues when it is failing. This depends on material type. Asphalt shingles begin to lose the "grit" or granules when the end is near. This exposes the asphalt to more UV which accelerates the aging process. This may not lead to leaks, but may make the roof more vulnerable to storms that cause leaks. The best thing to do is to have regular inspections and get fittings, and transitions tightened up if needed. The leaks typically occur there and not through the middle of the field.