All Forum Posts by: Keith Miller

Hey Robert,

Very interesting situation you have here. I'd start by talking to the owner and determining their interest level in selling. If they're open to it, getting the financials is an important first step. Using those as a starting point, you could then start building a business plan. I don't necessarily think that you need to order an appraisal on your own, because when you apply to a bank for a loan, they will order their own appraisal to determine value. They may consider your appraisal, but you'll still have to pay for the bank to get one, and you don't want to have to pay for two. You don't need a commercial agent in my opinion, but you will need a lawyer to help set up an LLC and an operating agreement between you and your partner.

The most important thing that I'm not seeing in your plan is who will manage it. This is the kind of property that likely needs a full-time manager, or at least a very reliable part time worker. I assume that neither of you will be that person, because they need to be local. Based on the challenge of finding reliable help these days, I'd ensure that part of your business plan is identifying that person, or at least coming up with a comprehensive strategy of how to find your manager. You may be able to get a local property manager to do so, but many of them stay away from more management-intensive properties like a campground. 

My top priority would be to read several books on managing campgrounds. I would strongly advise against jumping into this deal unless you are far more knowledgeable about how to approach campground management, what the common pitfalls are, common ways to increase income, and the little tips and tricks to help a business run well. This will be a small business, not a passive real estate deal, so the success is far more dependent on your skill and knowledge than anything else. I'd do some Googling for relevant books, and read them asap. Below are a couple examples. 

Good luck!

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@Andrew Thomas Yeah MT is a great market in my opinion, our growth rate per capita was one of the largest in the nation in 2021. But every winter we have, we have Southerners and Californians leaving, some people can't handle it. You just gotta start skiing or some other outdoor activity in the winter, then you'll get used to it. 

To clarify a few things, the HELOCs listed above are for both owner occupied and investment properties. Owner occupied is the top part of the list, investment properties are below. These banks are mostly regional credit unions in Montana, although Mountain America Credit Union has branches all over the Western US, and does offer HELOCs on investment properties. @Andrew Thomas I doubt any of the banks listed offer loans in GA, sorry. 

Keith’s Five Bullet Book Summaries

Book: Birth of a Building- Ben Stevens

• Quick Summary: A comprehensive overview of the steps it takes for a developer to find a lot, buy it, and all of the steps that go into building.
• Main Points: There are many ways for a development to go badly. Overpaying for the land is one of the most common mistakes.
• Main Points: Rely on recommended professionals for many of the crucial steps of development, such as architects, but don’t let them run the show.
• Who Should Read It: Anyone interested in building or development, regardless of their current knowledge level.
• Whether I’d recommend it: I’d definitely recommend it, I learned a lot about the specific steps it takes to get a project all the way to completion.

Keith’s Five Bullet Book Summaries

Book: Multifamily Millionaire- Brandon Turner

• -Quick Summary: A comprehensive summary of how to find, buy, and manage multifamily properties.
• -Main Points: Multifamily offers many advantages to single family rentals, because you can consolidate your units under one roof, etc.
• -Main Points: Far better opportunities to scale your buying and building of wealth with multifamily.
• -Who Should Read It: Anyone interested in scaling their real estate purchasing, who is interested in multifamily properties.
• -Whether I’d recommend it: I’d highly recommend it, this was my third reading of it, and I still learned a TON from the third time through.

Hi Aubrie,

I actually called around to most local banks and credit unions a few months ago, and the table below is what I found for HELOCs on both primary residences, and the lower part is for rental properties. Most will do them, so I'd go for it! It's just expensive to do a cash-out refinance right now, if your mortgage is more than 6 months old. My advice would be to skip the refi and apply for one of the HELOCs below. I ended up getting a MECU Home Equity Loan and had a great experience, let me know if you would like recommendations for who specifically to talk to at each bank. 

Good luck!

Our speaker this month is KC Hart. KC is a broker with Keller Williams and has 25 years experience. Also, a native Missoulian whose great grandfather almost qualifies as one of the founders of the town:) He has done his own small infill developments and helped many clients so will share those strategies. Also, he works with many entities including the city and county on affordable/workforce housing issues and would like feedback from the investor group on their specific thoughts regarding the current housing issues. KC fully recognizes the "small" private investors/developers can have a huge role in helping with the housing crisis.

Big thanks to Andrew Hagemeier from last month.

The Missoula Real Estate Meetup has three main goals:

1. Learn more about the Missoula Market

2. Make authentic connections

3. Share strategies and information

As always, there will be no selling of any products or services, and it's always free to attend.

Hey Daniel!

As far as Missoula Lawyers that focus on real estate, I'd recommend Kevin Jones, he is highly recommended from a lot of local investors, feel free to use my name to introduce yourself. Mike Bybee was also recommended by a buddy of mine, and I know that Jenna Lyons at Wagner & Lyons, PLLC is also Real Estate focused, but I haven't worked with her yet.

Best of luck man!

Wow, this house seems like it was a real project! Nice job getting it across the finish line. I didn't realize that these auction sites were used very much here in Montana. 10 months is pretty good in my book, it's a real challenge to get subs lined up down here in Missoula, and I'm guessing it's even worse up in Whitefish.

Great work!

@Joel Nelson The reason I picked Missoula is that it's my current location, and I was also born and raised here. As far as other Montana locations that I'd suggest checking out, Philipsburg/Anaconda are nice because you've got Georgetown Lake visitors in the Summer, and Discovery Ski Area visitors in the winter. But overall, it's not like there are many "pockets of affordability". There's just so much demand that some people are willing to commute 1-2 hours to a job in Missoula/Bozeman/Billings. The market increases are slowing a bit though, so there may be some relief on the horizon.