Skip to content
×
PRO
Pro Members Get Full Access!
Get off the sidelines and take action in real estate investing with BiggerPockets Pro. Our comprehensive suite of tools and resources minimize mistakes, support informed decisions, and propel you to success.
Advanced networking features
Market and Deal Finder tools
Property analysis calculators
Landlord Command Center
$0
TODAY
$69.00/month when billed monthly.
$32.50/month when billed annually.
7 day free trial. Cancel anytime
Already a Pro Member? Sign in here
Pick markets, find deals, analyze and manage properties. Try BiggerPockets PRO.
x
All Forum Categories
All Forum Categories
Followed Discussions
Followed Categories
Followed People
Followed Locations
Market News & Data
General Info
Real Estate Strategies
Landlording & Rental Properties
Real Estate Professionals
Financial, Tax, & Legal
Real Estate Classifieds
Reviews & Feedback

All Forum Posts by: Al D.

Al D. has started 16 posts and replied 278 times.

Post: Unbelievable Florida security deposit claim lawsuit!!!

Al D.Posted
  • Investor
  • San Francisco, CA
  • Posts 290
  • Votes 325

If you guys read the complaint against Marc, specifically from Paragraph 7, paying due attention to Count 1 (Paragraph 20,) does anyone still care about what is (WAS) in the lease or any addenda?

I don’t think any lease term could matter after the lease is terminated and the tenant is actually out as a direct result, especially, as in this case, when the lease is terminated by the landlord.

It is as if the lease stated something along the lines of: “Even after this contract is terminated for any reason, you owe me X, Y, Z going forward.”

Timing on the lawyer’s actions in the eviction case appears to be key - “loophole” - to me.

Can someone please tell me if I may be wrong (and why.)

But registering for e-file is a great idea.

Keeping in mind that I am not a lawyer in any state, and, therefore, can only interpret laws for entertainment purposes... And, seeing that no lawyer has chimed in, I’d like to offer some “entertainment:”

I previously provided a link to the pertinent law, which I believe to be current. Subsection D of that law should address your original stated concern:

“D. On termination of the tenancy, property or money held by the landlord as prepaid rent and security may be applied to the payment of all rent, and subject to a landlord's duty to mitigate, all charges as specified in the signed lease agreement, or as provided in this chapter, including the amount of damages which the landlord has suffered by reason of the tenant's noncompliance with section 33-1341. Within fourteen days, excluding Saturdays, Sundays or other legal holidays, after termination of the tenancy and delivery of possession and demand by the tenant the landlord shall provide the tenant an itemized list of all deductions together with the amount due and payable to the tenant, if any. Unless other arrangements are made in writing by the tenant, the landlord shall mail the itemized list and any amount due, by first class mail, to the tenant's last known place of residence. If the tenant does not dispute the deductions or the amount due and payable to the tenant within sixty days after the itemized list and amount due are mailed as prescribed by this subsection, the amount due to the tenant as set forth in the itemized list with any amount due is deemed valid and final and any further claims of the tenant are waived.”

To further address your specific concern, there is a particular element in the quoted section of the law that requires an action from the tenant. I am “ ^-ing^ “ that element in the quote below:

“Within fourteen (business) days
 after termination of the tenancy and delivery of possession ^and demand by the tenant^ the landlord shall provide the tenant an itemized list of all deductions together with the amount due and payable to the tenant, if any.”

(I did not find a definition for “demand” in the law; though, such definition may exist in another section/chapter that may be applicable “globally.” Not having found it, I am presuming that the “demand” here may mean verbal or written - but I don’t know for a fact.)

Note: You did not state how you regained possession after “The tenant broke the lease and moved out
” (And more on this - unrelated to your question - point at the end of this dissertation.) Did the tenant just leave and not even return the keys? Or did they tell you they would be moving out on/about a particular date - before the expiration of the lease - asked to be present at their move-out inspection, and also asked (“demanded”) for their deposit back? But what if they only asked for their SD back verbally? - the law does not appear to state in what manner the tenant has to make that demand.

So, reading the applicable law in whole, element by element (as all laws should be read,) I take from this law that, unless the tenant makes a demand - even verbally (for which there may be no witness/evidence) - only then is the “14-day” clock even triggered. But what is to prevent a tenant from later claiming that they had made a timely - verbal - demand for their security deposit?
 So I’m glad you sent the letter, because, if the tenant should make that claim:

“Unless other arrangements are made in writing by the tenant, the landlord shall mail the itemized list and any amount due, by first class mail, to the tenant's last known place of residence.” (I am assuming, from your post, that the tenant made no other arrangements - in writing - as to where to *send/deliver* the itemized list and any amount due.)

Note that the law is mum on forwarding or not forwarding the first class letter that you shall mail. But should that mean that you are free to interpret what the legislators may have intended (but forgot?) to give you options for? In my opinion, this does not mean that you should take any active step to request of the USPS that your letter not be forwarded - assuming the USPS may have a new address, which you wouldn’t know about at the time of sending the letter.

Why could that matter? Imagine if you did instruct the USPS to not forward your letter, and the tenant would present this action to the judge as, “See, she definitely did not want me to get that letter!” (And you expressed this reasonable concern above. And I believe the other commenter, in whose jurisdiction their advice may work, assumes that you could be the only party with a claim here. Unfortunately, I believe the tenant may file a claim of their own, for up to double/triple the deposit. I can tell you are aware of that possibility.)

While you would still have complied with the letter of the law, depending on what the judge/commissioner had for breakfast, they may agree with the tenant’s sentiment if you took the “liberty” of writing “do not forward” on a first class letter, that may look like an unfair action in your favor. Of course, you could also make the seemingly-reasonable counter-argument that you would have to have proof that you sent the letter, and how could you get that proof if the letter were to be forwarded (to an address not provided to you by the tenant) instead of being returned to you for you to use as evidence later that the last known address was a dead-end? But logic also begs that you still would not have proof of sending the letter if your first class (read: not certified) letter WAS forwarded to another address, where the tenant may have actually received it, but lied in court that they never got it anywhere. How would you still prove in that case that you sent it - to any address?

I hope that this “role play” makes sense for anyone else - the point is not to assume something that is not actually in the law, because it may show you acting in bad faith if properly spun by the other side, despite your reasonable desire to want to have evidence. (There are other ways to obtain/develop that evidence - such as using certified mail or my “practical advice” below.)

In your case, because your friend found the letter inside the mailbox of the last known address, you now have specific evidence of having mailed the letter “
by first class mail, to the tenant's last known place of residence” - “Unless other arrangements (had been) made in writing by the tenant
”

Again, in my (non-lawyer) opinion, you’ve complied with the letter of the law as to your concern - “Unless other arrangements (had been) made in writing by the tenant
”

[Practical advice: Where I self-manage, in my “Notices” section of the lease, besides my physical address, phone numbers, etc for notices to me, I provide two email addresses for myself, and state in that part that email is my preferred method of communication. I separately end that paragraph with: “Landlord encourages the use of email for all non-emergency communications or as a follow-up to emergency phone call(s)/message(s).” (This language does not obligate the tenant to communicate with me only by email - only states what method of communication I prefer, for non-emergencies.) And I make sure to already have established email communication with each tenant at/before the start of the lease, and use that same email address (of the two provided in the lease) with the tenant during our relationship.

Real life example: I had one leave “in the dark of night” after my local agent posted an eviction notice on the door. She left no forwarding address. So, everything the law required of me in such a case at that time I did - and each required step I took, I documented by email to the tenant, with attachments, where appropriate, without delay. I wouldn’t wait for a letter I sent to first be returned to me. I’d also email the letter’s contents to the tenant without delay: “On X date, approximate time, I personally deposited a letter with a copy of the attached contents (please see attachment for reference) in it into a USPS mailbox located at
 It was a stamped, with a “USA Forever” stamp, and sealed, letter addressed to your first and last name at the following address, which was the last address you have provided to me for yourself, and is the only address I am currently aware of for you
 Furthermore, you appear to be in non-compliance with ORC 5321.16(B) (this was Ohio,) which states, in part: “
 The tenant shall provide the landlord in writing with a forwarding address or new address to which the written notice and amount due from the landlord may be sent. If the tenant fails to provide the landlord with the forwarding or new address as required, the tenant shall not be entitled to damages or attorneys fees under division (C) of this section.” (I do not know whether AZ has similar, but this wouldn’t matter in your case, as it only applies to what the tenant may petition the court for.) If the letter was later returned to me, I’d take pics of its exterior, and email those to the tenant at that time - so the tenant was fully aware of everything without delay, and in apparent good faith from me.

Overkill? Maybe to some. I am used to documenting events for forensic purposes, and have experienced judges with poor dietary habits


This is an example of going above and beyond vs interpreting (vague?) laws in a way that may later be presented to only benefit you. Good luck spinning my actions into bad faith or non-compliance
 But perhaps more importantly, think “contemporaneous evidence” in your Sent folder that you could point to - and, if ruled admissible, refer to to refresh your own memory, even on the stand, potentially years later - in court, if needed. (And having such evidence - with the tenant’s knowledge of its existence - would likely make it unneeded.)

Obviously, none of this is a legal requirement, but we all should share our best practices here - I was not born the perfect (looking) person I am today. It took a lot of Botox injections first.]

If you’d like something to worry about for your circumstances - because all you have provided to us is: “The tenant broke the lease and moved out
” - consider this AZ law: https://www.azleg.gov/ars/33/01370.htm

An advice that probably does not need to be stated here, but still: Depending on the facts of your circumstances, I wouldn’t comment on whether you complied with this law, which I also assume is currently in force - this is a public forum, and you shouldn’t volunteer potentially-damaging information to the other side.

And, again: None of the above is legal advice, as I am not a lawyer.

Post: Investor Friendly Insurance Company - Macon, Warner Robins, Byron, Lizella Area

Al D.Posted
  • Investor
  • San Francisco, CA
  • Posts 290
  • Votes 325

I’ve had great service from the Martin Insurance Agency in Macon.

Post: How come most real estate seminars tend to...

Al D.Posted
  • Investor
  • San Francisco, CA
  • Posts 290
  • Votes 325

Kathy Fettke’s Real Wealth Network has free, no obligation events, fewer now than before Covid, but still. (It used to be monthly, in-person.)

They make money if you buy properties from their affiliates, and can provide additional free, one-on-one guidance via their investment counselors. They also make money via syndications.

Depending on who is presenting, you can get great info - without apparent intelligence challenging - to get you started and maybe even motivated. They just announced their next virtual (free) event for September 21st.

That said, from experience, you must do your own due diligence on each affiliate/property and syndications. Or, hopefully having learned some good info from them, buy on your own and thank them here later. There really is no pressure.

Post: Jerry M Feeney - e1031xchange.com, legit?

Al D.Posted
  • Investor
  • San Francisco, CA
  • Posts 290
  • Votes 325

(Interesting that I just came across this old post for the first time.)

I’ve used Jerry Feeney’s e1031xchange multiple times. I was initially drawn in by the low fee, which has since fluctuated, but may still be the lowest out there. Took my chance the first time in 2017 and never looked back.

My transaction was always one property into multiple. Never a problem. And I’d use them again.

Post: Unbelievable Florida security deposit claim lawsuit!!!

Al D.Posted
  • Investor
  • San Francisco, CA
  • Posts 290
  • Votes 325

Good question, Andrew. The following are some “Factual Allegations” the law firm stated in the complaint against Marc, in order, limited to what should matter to us to avoid similar. To your point, the lease was no longer in effect:

4. “
 the tenant, rented the premises, located at 
(the “Property”), from the Defendants.

5. Tenant paid Defendant a $1,200.00 security deposit.

6. Pursuant to §83.56(3), the Defendant delivered a 3 Day Notice for the tenant to pay or the tenancy would be terminated.

7. The Defendant terminated the lease as a statutory predicate to filing its eviction action pursuant to §83.59(1) and (3)(a).

8. The Defendant then brought an action for possession pursuant to §83.59(1) which states

“[i]f the rental agreement is terminated and the tenant does not vacate the premises, the landlord may recover possession of the dwelling unit as provided in this section.”

9. After terminating the lease, Defendant sought Property possession through an eviction action.

10. Since the Defendant terminated the rental agreement as a condition precedent to filing the eviction action for possession, the Defendant was obligated to comply with §83.56(6).

11. §83.56 Termination of rental agreement.-

‘...

(6) If the rental agreement is terminated, the landlord shall comply with s. 83.49(3).’

12. A Notice of Updating Mailing Address for tenants updating the tenant’s mailing address was filed in the prior eviction.

13. The Tenant surrendered the Property on or around March 13, 2023.

14. Under the plain reading of § 83.49(3)(a), a landlord must send deposit-claim notice to the tenant’s “last known mailing address.”

15. The Tenant assigned the rights to the security deposit to the KAC 2021-1, LLC.

16. KAC 2021-1, LLC, assigned the rights to the security deposit to the Tenant's Rights, LLC."

17. The Defendant did not return the security deposit within the statutory time allowed.

18. The Defendant failed to send a deposit claim via certified mail to the last known mailing address.”

Count 1, based on the above:

“20. After the tenant’s breach, the Defendant terminated the lease pursuant to §83.59(1), as a condition precedent to filing the Eviction Complaint seeking possession.

21. Since the Defendant terminated the lease, the Defendant was required under Florida statute §83.56(6) to comply with §83.49(3).

22. The Defendant failed to send a claim on the security deposit within 30 days of the Tenant’s surrendering the Property.

23. The Defendant fail (sic) to return the security deposit, even though §83.49(3)(a) required Defendants to do so.”

Post: Unbelievable Florida security deposit claim lawsuit!!!

Al D.Posted
  • Investor
  • San Francisco, CA
  • Posts 290
  • Votes 325

I do see the case in that county. As previously known, one of the allegations in that complaint is that the tenant left on March 13, which was also asserted by the lawyer firm in the eviction case records. The form that the attorney representing the tenant filed after you obtained the final judgement in the eviction case was electronically filed with that court on March 24, alleging also that you were served with a copy of it “by mail or eService” that same day. And you mentioned when you sent your letter.

Looking it this as an investigator, not a lawyer:

You may not have to proceed to trial, but you may have to get to discovery, predominantly to see how - and exactly when - you could have been served with the “NOTICE OF UPDATING MAILING ADDRESS FOR DEFENDANTS AND OBJECTION TO ANY CLAIM ON SECURITY DEPOSIT,” alleged to have been “furnished” to you on March 24, a Friday last year. I imagine that Florida law still places the burden of proof on the plaintiff here, that (i) the law firm (and exactly who there) did, in fact, send this notice to you, (ii) on what date it was stamped by either the machine inside the law firm (think “Pitney Bowes.” And then subject to subsequent timely submittal to the care of the USPS for delivery) or postmarked by the USPS directly, and (iii) still be subject to actual delivery (time) logistics in either stamping case
 To start with.

In their complaint against you (Item 12,) the plaintiff omitted mentioning the date when they “filed” the updated address notice. (It’s just the complaint, so, fine.) But they readily provided the date for when the tenant left the property in Item 13. Could be nothing. Or everything... Discovery is expensive, and I can see your point of listening to the advice of the attorneys you’ve spoken with - it is your money, and you know the facts of the matter to be able to present them to get proper counsel. But I am also seeing you filing your own motions. And it’s important that none of us underestimate your reality - regardless of our own experiences and desire for justice at any alleged cost.

Interesting set of facts and events, and I wish the best for you. Again, thank you for the warning.

Post: Unbelievable Florida security deposit claim lawsuit!!!

Al D.Posted
  • Investor
  • San Francisco, CA
  • Posts 290
  • Votes 325

Marc, can you please clarify what documents you’ve received about the lawsuit against you. I continue to see no suit against you in the jurisdiction.

Post: Evication Notice Duration for Georgia

Al D.Posted
  • Investor
  • San Francisco, CA
  • Posts 290
  • Votes 325

Bill is correct, John: GA did change some habitability- and eviction-related laws, effective 20 days ago - of which I was not aware until just now. I posted a reference to the law that was current as of this March 28, but the governor signed HB 404 on April 22. Egg on my face, and I am now happy to admit that I am a (long ago) law school drop-out.

I still have not found a more up to date (free) source of the statute than my original source, and can’t tell whether this version of the Bill I just found is the final version signed into law: https://gov.georgia.gov/document/2024-signed-legislation/hb-404/download

If it is, then it appears that a 3 business day notice “
 shall be posted in sealed envelope conspicuously on the door of the property and delivered via any additional method or methods agreed upon in the rental agreement.” But, again, I am not a lawyer, so could - again - be wrong. At least I am certain that the legal statute I initially referred to is no longer valid.

As Nathan noted above, “people
 may give bad advice.” My sincere apologies for mine.

Post: Contractor doesn’t feel comfortable giving me lic. Number

Al D.Posted
  • Investor
  • San Francisco, CA
  • Posts 290
  • Votes 325

Is this California? If so, the law on this is one of the most straight forward ones out there:

CA B&P 7030.5 (https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=BPC§ionNum=7030.5.)

“Every person licensed pursuant to this chapter shall include his license number in: (a) all construction contracts; (b) subcontracts and calls for bid; and (c) all forms of advertising, as prescribed by the registrar of contractors, used by such a person.”

Only times I’ve been given some excuse on this, the bidder was not a licensed contractor, while claiming to be such. I’d scrutinize this one if he provides any license info eventually - every legitimate contractor I’ve ever dealt with knows the above *requirement* well. No license, likely no insurance, etc.