All Forum Posts by: Bart Pair

Let me start off by saying I am not an attorney and I don't know enough about your situation for you to give my opinion to much weight.

Rezonings, variances and other entitlements can be tricky and the correct way to proceed depends on the locality. Even when you think you have won, you may not have. (Case in point: I actually have to appear as a witness in a rezoning appeal case on Monday.)

Anyway, if you have time and money than doing all 4 appraisals would cover all your bases but it may not be necessary. You may not have to do the 2 current zonings options depending on the situation.

Questions:
Did the city allow for increased density of the adjacent property that is being developed with the aid of their condemning a portion of your land?

Does your SSA formula give you a similar density to what the adjacent property is going to be developed as?

And finally, if the condemnation wasn't happening, how confident are you that your property would be allowed to develop according to the SSA formula?

These are very important questions. Politically, most council members do not want it to appear publicly that they are playing favorites. Especially when it comes to Eminent Domain.

If they really are using your land to increase the density and value of an adjacent development (even indirectly), you have a very strong argument that your parcel should be allowed that similar increased density and value as well.

Unless there is a blatant reason why your property should remain under its current zoning, I would pursue the negotiations with the higher density/value in mind.

Force the Council to say publicly "we aren't going to increase your property value and help you develop your property in the same way we helped your neighbor." They don't like to do that. ;]

Wrigley,

I would get aggressive and act quickly in determining the value of the loss, otherwise you are liable to be stuck with the value they come up with (which may be the case regardless.)

I assume you are talking about a significant piece of property they will be taken. Significant enough to warrant what I suggest you do.

First, you need to create two (2) site plans of the property showing it developed fully for the highest and best use under the current zoning. One site plan will utilize the entire property and one will utilize only the property that is remaining once the City takes their portion.

The site plans should be based on the current zoning and conform to the land development code for the site. Since time may be of the essence it may be worth speaking with an appraiser first to determine what is the "highest and best use" in terms of the dollar value for the property. And then hiring an engineering firm to create site plans that maximize the development potential of the site and stay within the land development codes. Tell the engineer to really squeeze as much square footage as possible into the sites - it will effect you dearly.

Get the 2 site plans appraised and now you have concrete $ values of what the land the City is taking is worth.

Now you have some bargaining power. Most likely the City will think the price difference is too much and not want to pay that amount of cash to you. This is an opportunity!!!

Get creative. There are so many things you can get in exchange for a lower compensation price;
a change in zoning (to a higher density),
elimination of setbacks and landscape buffers,
a reduction in parking requirements,
a change in land use for taxation purposes,
a reduction in stormwater requirements
an increase in building height restrictions

the list goes on and on. Just make sure whatever you conced to gives you much more value than the compensation price you originally set.

Most Cities will jump at giving you concessions in exchange for a lower cash price. Make the most of it.

Something doesn't add up.

Why would someone like that have trouble finding investors?

I am assuming from what you wrote that he has already organized a bank loan for the development and is looking for investors to meet the extra cash requirements?

Is that correct? Or has he not been able to arrange traditional financing and is looking elsewhere?

Let me start off by saying I don't know what $615,000 will get you in Cape Cod, but here are my impressions.

1. The outside of the house is very plain - front and back.
2. From the video, it looks like the house is really about 2,000 square feet of usable space with the extra 1,500 coming from a revamped open attic space with no real purpose. This could be affecting the validity of the comps you are using.
3. The bedrooms seems small for a 3,500 sq. ft house.
4. The kitchen is nice, so is the fire place. Best parts of the house by far.
5. The biggest selling points are the river and the acreage not the house. Any selling should emphasize those.
6. TBH, the video doesn't sell well. There is no sound telling me about specific features and there are times I am not even sure what rooms I am looking at (did you show the master bedroom?)

Don't expect people to recognize what is great about this house from some pictures or a video. You have to tell them either by speaking in the video or putting it in writing somewhere.

$200,000 for 1 mile of road at 10,000 feet seems real cheap to me.

I actually interviewed with a civil engineering firm in Breckenridge a few years back (I was living in Fort Collins at the time.). If I remember they were on French Street. Not sure if they are still there.

Anyway, just call a firm over there and get a proposal to do a basic site plan with a preliminary cost estimate. You don't have to hire them to do the whole job, just some preliminary research and planning.

It will be worth it.

This may not be PC to say, but don't forget to account for bribes when developing in the countries you mentioned.

I have a friend who is an expert in stormwater and was working with the Bahamian government on solving some of their stormwater issues. He was working FOR the government and he had a horrible time getting any of his projects built because he refused to pay bribes. Eventually, he was run out of the country because some of the private construction companies got sick of him and basically threatened his life.

The money can be lucrative doing developments in other countries - but you aren't in Kansas anymore either.

bpclark0911,

check with your local agency to see what the requirements for subdividing the property are. Often you can do large lot sizes vary cheaply but smaller lot sizes require a much more stringent permitting and approval process and significantly more money.

It might impact your decision on what you develop. For example, it could be very easy and cheap to split up the property into 5 acre parcels or greater. You may only need to do a metes and bounds description of the new parcels and avoid a plat process and avoid getting council approval. In such a situation, you may not even need to hire an engineer - a good surveyor could do it.

But if you subdivide it into anything smaller than 5 acres, you may be required to plat the entire project, be subject to council approval and be required to have public meetings about the project. You will definitely need to hire an engineer and you will definitely spend more money. (You can potentially make more money with smaller lots, but it is good to know your options up front.)

It should only take a phone call to your local planning and zoning department to figure out if there exists such a threshold for different subdivisions.

REI is right.

For example down here in Florida you can't find rock/gravel required for the subgrade of the road. And therefore, it is very expensive to haul it in.

In Colorado the sugrade rock is cheap, its everywhere.

CEs and Surveyors also know the big developers in the area. As a civil engineer myself, I have clients that are constantly asking me if I know of any land that is available.

If you called me up and told me you had a large tract of land that you wanted to sell I wouldn't just give you a list of my clients. But I would get you to email or fax over some information and then I would pass it on. It is in my best interest to do so because if one of my client buy your land that is more civil engineering work for me.

Civil Engineers and Surveyors can be an often overlooked resource. These two groups can be as familiar with the large stuff in an area as any realtor. They often work on a lot of projects that never actually happen and end up seeing land that isn't listed for sale but was under contract at one time.

The developer will end up dealing with these peopel anyway so it isn't wasted effort to get in touch with them now and see what they know.