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All Forum Posts by: Samuel DeMass

Samuel DeMass has started 34 posts and replied 160 times.

Post: Projected vs Actual - tell your story

Samuel DeMassPosted
  • Investor
  • Albuquerque, NM
  • Posts 160
  • Votes 35

@Steven B.,

Welcome to the site, lurker!

I hope you can read faster than me.  Thanks for giving me a prompt and papyrus to throw down some thought to paper and sharpen the gray matter!  I hope it's not more than you bargained for:

I'm not going to bother with actual numbers and data, because they'll only add to your analysis paralysis.  You have to accept there are some things that will come up that you won't be able to account for down to the dollar.

I know that's not what you wanted to hear, so here are some general trends or traps that I've fallen into as a more green investor:

First, a little background:

I started in 2002? The internet wasn't as useful as it is now, and finding reliable information was difficult.  I didn't do any super detailed analysis on my first 3 properties.  I know this sounds crazy, and looking back it was a little nuts.  I did all 3 prior to 2007 and I was doing 0% down, so I didn't have much skin in the game short of sweat equity.  

However, I did what I dubbed "the basic math" and took:

RENT - MORTGAGE - INSURANCE - TAXES = POSITIVE NUMBER!!!,

and pressed the GO button.  I didn't even use a spreadsheet, at best it was pencil on a pizza box and at worst it was just mental math that my brain could handle.  I don't have the brain cells or the pizza boxes to prove what I actually did.

I have since plugged all those numbers into my light-years more advanced, but still relatively simple, analysis tools and realized that before I refinanced to lower the mortgage costs I was actually set up for a negative net on those properties.

(I digress, but it's worth the read) Time heals almost all wounds in real estate.  I've come to settle on the idea that if a deal works for the next 5 years (usually what I can get loans out to now), then it should be good for the life of the investment.  Principle pay-down is the simple answer that heals all wounds.  After 5 years an argument can easily be made to refinance (without taking money out) to a lower mortgage payment.  Even if rates rise a little over time, you'll still have some principle paid off and it will likely reduce the actual debt service expense number in your equation.  And, oh by the way, rent generally increases over time further extending your net.

Here are some big lessons learned:

1.) Not accounting for the closing costs in your purchase equation.

 If you can convince the seller to pay all closing costs that's great, but some won't get on board.  If not, you're looking at around 3% of the purchase price as a rough guess for the closing costs you'll have to cough up in cash if you don't have it bankrolled by your lender.

2.) Not sticking to the maint/repair costs reserve.

I fell prey to this trend in my early investing career (10+ years ago).  I have been blessed to have never had to come out of pocket to cover maint costs, but it was mostly due to lower than anticipated vacancy rates.  This is a great testimonial to the ability to heal over time.  If I hadn't been able to refinance later I would have started to come out of pocket when bigger items hit.  You could say I was lucky not to get hit with those costs before I was able to change the equation with a refi, but I'll say I was blessed.  Either way, I didn't understand the math on the front end of the purchase well enough to execute it on the back end.

3.) Learn what metrics really matter.

$/Sqft? CAP rate? 1% rule? COC (Cash on Cash) return? How far is the property from the nearest Walmart? These are all numbers I look at, but maybe don't use, during some phase of a detailed analysis now that I know what I'm doing. However, most of them don't matter after they've served their purpose.

Here's something that took me a really long time, about 30 years, to boil down:

CAP rate vs. Cash on Cash Return (COC)

CAP rate is useful for comparing properties in a market to other properties from the eyes of a universal (meaning faceless or interchangeable) investor.

COC return is a very personal metric that tells me (based on my financing assumptions) how much cash is being returned to me in cash flow (after all expenses including debt service)

In other words, CAP rate doesn't take into consideration my individual financing assumptions. It also doesn't take into consideration transaction costs (closing costs). It is singularly based on continuous operations.

Therefore, COC return is my #1 metric I use to compare the opportunities that I have available to me.

"Fortune favors the bold".  Move forward and make offers.  Experience will come with experience, but do the simple math.

I hope this helps!

Good luck!  Keep us posted.

-Sam

Post: Properties in decent area owned outright

Samuel DeMassPosted
  • Investor
  • Albuquerque, NM
  • Posts 160
  • Votes 35

@Ryan Dossey,

What is the current state of repair of the rentals and why is the seller motivated to sell?

It seems odd that the seller wouldn't just sell his houses at FMV?

It sounds like a lose-win situation.  Please enlighten.

Post: First Rental Property Under contract

Samuel DeMassPosted
  • Investor
  • Albuquerque, NM
  • Posts 160
  • Votes 35

Congrats!

It looks like you're looking at the numbers.  Great job.  It seems like many new investors forget to do the simple math.  I think I'd pull the trigger on this property too.

In my opinion you've got enough slop in the cash flow to justify the purchase even if you're repair numbers aren't exact.

A couple pieces of food for your frontal cortex:

-Have you verified it's not in a flood plane?  

-What's the neighborhood look like?  Mostly rentals? A, B, C, or D type neighborhood?

On the surface, this seems like a great deal, and I hope it is.  However, a piece of the puzzle we can't see from the post is the neighborhood/area/geography.

-Have you tried verifying the actual rent situation?

I will ALWAYS talk to at least one property manager to get their take on what the property should be able to rent for in the area.  Even if you're not going to use them immediately, it's a value to both you and them to make contact now before you finalize the purchase.  You've already accounted for it being managed, so for any reason if you need to/choose to step out of the picture down the road you already have the logistics in place to let them drive.

Keep getting it done, and ask when you have questions.  BP is a great resource.

Well done.  Keep us posted on the progress!

-Sam

Post: Need help

Samuel DeMassPosted
  • Investor
  • Albuquerque, NM
  • Posts 160
  • Votes 35

@Elliot Morgan,

Way to get after it!  Welcome to the site.

I bought my first house at 18 too.  It was a great adventure and learning experience.

If I could go back, I would tell myself to fully understand cash flow investing and how to identify a good deal.

My suggestion for activities would be to start building a deal analyzer for yourself.  You've probably got all the math skills you need to start.  It's basic addition/subtraction, with the exception of how to amortize a loan to find the loan amount, but you can look that up online.

For reading I'd suggest some or all of the following:

-Rich Dad Poor Dad (Not really a 

-Cash Flow Forever

-The Millionaire Real Estate Investor

-The 4 hour work week

Post: Condos as First Investment?

Samuel DeMassPosted
  • Investor
  • Albuquerque, NM
  • Posts 160
  • Votes 35
Originally posted by @Brian G.:

I own condos and townhouses in South Florida. Looking at the comments above there are no right or wrong answers. Whats important is to take action and stop all these inner stories, the doubts and the second guessings. HOA's are no different than single family homes that could need a roof replacement, an unknow code violation due to structural/electrical/plumbing issues or a drug dealer that moves accross the street after you acquire the property."

It sounds like @Brian G. is a better source of condo investing than I will be with his experience.  

I would agree a drug dealer in the area outside of your property is hard to mitigate based on property type vs. quality type. 

However, I tend to think differently about this statement.  Yes, you will have issues that come up with any investment you make.   Hopefully they won't be enormous and you've planned for them.

The key here is there IS a difference between a HOA and a SFH that could need a roof replacement or a structural/electrical/plumbing issue. The difference is how the problem or issue is resolved.

Assuming you're going out and buying a SFH by yourself, or even with a like minded partner, you have the best interest of the rental in mind when you make a decision for it.

When an HOA makes decisions, it may not have YOUR investment's best interest in mind. For example, when something breaks who gets to decide how it gets fixed? Is it a decision by committee, the head of the HOA, or is it you alone who gets to make that decision?

I'm not claiming that every decision made by an HOA will be a bad one, I'm sure there are some intelligent people out there. However, you're still handing over your investment to an entity other than yourself. You may as well go invest in stocks if you want someone else's decision making performance to rule your investments. There are plenty of smart CEO's out there that make great decisions, but then there are some real dummies too.

I hope this helps.

Good luck!

-Sam

Post: Condos as First Investment?

Samuel DeMassPosted
  • Investor
  • Albuquerque, NM
  • Posts 160
  • Votes 35

@Kevin Choi,

Welcome to the site!

I think you have a valid point, you might be right, but I also disagree.  Let me explain:

I submit that you have to live somewhere, and living somewhere that doesn't suck is generally fairly high on anyone's needs list, especially Maslow's.

However, you want to start investing, and investing in something that doesn't suck is generally fairly high on a real estate investor's needs list.

To save some keystrokes, read my response to a similar inquiry about why condo's/HOAs aren't a good deal: http://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/88/topics/1959...

The same condo unit that I describe in the lease was making a great rental for my friend.  He was making money hand over fist because he bought it right.  However, he's now having to deal with the shenanigans that come with HOAs/condo's.  It's like getting in bed, or a partnership, with a bunch of people you have never met, and may not agree with down the road.

All this said, I still believe in crunching the numbers above all else.  There are exceptions to almost every rule.  You can probably find a condo that you could live in for a while and save up some money for your next investment, which might be worth it to you.

However, you are an ME major. Live well below your means and don't increase spending with increased pay. You'll be able to invest in high quality investments within a year. It might be worth delaying investment and renting the short term to purchase a nice 2-4 multifamily on an FHA loan and do some house hacking for the first investment. This would be my recommendation for you, brother!

Good luck!  Keep us posted.

-Sam

Post: My first analyzed property

Samuel DeMassPosted
  • Investor
  • Albuquerque, NM
  • Posts 160
  • Votes 35

@Account Closed,

Welcome to the site!

I can't speak to the resources you have available in NZ, but in the US most details you can find out for free, or estimate using sound judgement.

I think some of the most valid techniques for aggregating the details is to ask other people who own similar properties in your area of interest.  Property management is a great place to start if you have any professional companies in the area.

They'll also be able to give you an idea of what the operating norms are for your market in terms of water and gas.  However, I think the water and gas (heating) is different for each individual property.

Unless there is some sort of law or regulation that requires the owners to pay (which exists in the States in some locations) utilities, you should be able to negotiate that in your lease.

Good luck!  Keep us posted.

-Sam

Post: First potential Multi-family deal! 11 townhouse units

Samuel DeMassPosted
  • Investor
  • Albuquerque, NM
  • Posts 160
  • Votes 35

@Tom Shepard,

The internal numbers to the deal look reasonable.  What are the external factors?

For example, are there multiple and varied employers in the area?  What's the general population trend?

How did you arrive at $600/mo for the rent?  If you have a property manager picked out, what do they think the rent will be?

These are just some questions that I was instantly curious about when I looked at your numbers, if I were going to analyze the deal myself.

Good luck!  Keep us posted.

-Sam

Post: Chicago Condo Deal

Samuel DeMassPosted
  • Investor
  • Albuquerque, NM
  • Posts 160
  • Votes 35

@Eric Hu,

Welcome to the site!

I tend to think it best to stay away from HOA situations.

I literally ran into a buddy today who has a condo in an HOA and is going through a nightmare scenario of a roof leak that has destroyed a couple interior walls and is very costly to repair. One of the contributing problems was the lack of regular clearing of the gutters on the property and adequate maintenance. Unfortunately the HOA didn't consider it prudent to take care of the small things before they became really big problems.

I think of HOA's like partnerships with complete strangers. I would never enter a partnership with someone who I don't trust, much less have very little in common in the ways that I think and handle problems.

The $560 for HOA fees is just the baseline. Nothing prevents the HOA from changing that number in the future and ruining your numbers. They could, and some have in the past, decide to do some beautification of the property, that doesn't increase rent relative to the expenditure that you're required to cough up.

In my opinion, you have to look well beyond the numbers of this deal and realize that the risk factors may not bring you the reward they should demand.

If you haven't yet, start listening to the BP podcasts and you'll hear some of the stories and learn some of the lessons that others have experienced for free.  They're a great resource and one of my favorite work commute entertainment pieces.

Good luck, and keep looking.  Keep us posted.

-Sam

Post: Financing SFR Non Owner Occupied

Samuel DeMassPosted
  • Investor
  • Albuquerque, NM
  • Posts 160
  • Votes 35

@Jared K.,

I might be showing a little ignorance, but I'm confused about what you mean when you say you're hoping to syndicate it.  Can you explain?

To be clear, what is the financial structure of the deal 100% cash to purchase and you're looking for an immediate refi, or something else?