The Multifamily Mindset program. Biggest regret of so many people. Is it a scam?

[Lutfiya Mosley]

There are a lot of questions about whether or not MFM is a scam. The definition of a scam is a deceptive scheme, act, or operation. From this definition and my experience with the Multifamily Mindset and their employees, independent contractors, and sponsors they promote that is exactly what it is in my opinion.

I joined the program in June of 2021. There were no reviews on the company that I could see at the time. After I joined there was one very specific, honest review by Zach Harsh and boy did he get slandered for it. The company was going around the US making a ton of money at the height of its popularity and other people who had similar experiences to him said nothing at all which cost people like me everything I worked towards financially.

First off you, are paying at least 40k for expert mentorship my brochure said. Although not everyone, they pick and choose who they charge what to. They also ask people to look into their financials and assets at the sales event. For no reason that will benefit you. The salespeople also act like they will keep in touch and sponsor deals for you but they don’t. The company had no “coaches” who had experience in this aspect of real estate (multifamily value add syndication). This has been admitted by almost every coach themselves.

Here is a list of other common lies at the sales event which is a three-day “class” you pay $1500 for:

• 1. The salespeople including Tyler Deveraux himself tell people we will get you in your first deal and have it closed in three months. They started having a guy from a company called Pathways come to these events and get people to put 40k on 4 or 5 credit cards which put them in massive debt and wrecked their credit because of this dishonesty as well as other things said in the three days.
• 2. You get paid a 5% acquisition fee and regular cash flow with low risk. I own a property with Tyler Deveraux, Ryan Woolley and their partners Lisa and Greg Parrish. This size fee is a red flag to lenders, they look for 1% so that is what they put on the closing statement. The property I am on with them has been neglected to the point I received a notice of default. Myself and other investors have received no cash flow in over two years. There is a lot of money unaccounted for and nobody will answer any questions. The people you pay to mentor you will fully shut you out and do things behind your back. This has cost me personally in so many ways.
• 3. The salespeople tell you they will keep in touch and hold your hand through the transactions but they will not contact you after they get you to pay unless you have capital for a deal of theirs. Many 506b deals are pitched to new students including ones that are failing and the students have no knowledge in this industry to understand what is being presented. I can name at least four or five.
• 4. Tyler Deveraux, Ryan Woolley, and their partners and sponsors they promote have gotten students and their families and friends into horrific situations with neglected properties and take no responsibility for it. They refuse to give investors the information they ask for such as who is the loan through, what kind of state it is in, and who are the GPs, LPs, profit and loss statements. They have done multiple capital calls on one property just for it to foreclose. There are multiple properties they own in the same condition now. Many students and their family and friends have money in these. Students are so scared they don’t say anything in hopes their family won’t lose it all.
• After four years of running a deceptive business and getting students locked into deals with them and their employees or associates, the owners are trying to split up and there's a lawsuit between them. Three men started this and if you read the lawsuit it should prompt you to steer clear of all of them. Todd Millar is just trying to disappear as if he never participated, taking no responsibility for all the money people are asking for back. Tyler Deveraux continues this mess and takes people’s money for little to no value based on lies at the sales events. Ryan Woolley is saying Tyler abused him and all this isn’t his fault. He is trying to collect all the hurting students for his new investment company.

Tyler Deveraux and Ryan Woolley are both starting new companies. Tyler’s is Nalu capital and Ryan’s is 7Reigns. Both companies have recently closed on transactions with people new to the industry who have no idea how much their current investors are hurting. This should not be allowed. They both have done so many people wrong and so have the sponsors they promote to the students. They have left so many people in terrible financial situations due to dishonesty and if you got involved in an investment with them like I did it will be one of your biggest regrets. I would never get involved with any of these people or anyone associated with them if I could go back so hopefully this helps someone else.

[Gary L DeSoto]

Is MultiFamily Wealth Nation part of MultiFamily Mindset Program that you are writing about? 

[Lutfiya Mosley]

No, but I looked that up and it is odd how similar it looks to their website, logo, etc. I am not familiar with them but I learned the hard way that a lot of people, success, and things said in the multifamily syndication industry are just lies period. The success stories that students and coaches shared in the Multifamily Mindset were fabricated by the owners and mostly untrue. They even gave their own money to students after they took them around sharing their testimony of something they hadn't even done yet. Social media profiles, how many properties people have owned, and what they accomplished were simply lies to get people to invest with them or get new people to raise money for them.

[Stuart Udis]

@Lutfiya Mosley I’m sorry to hear the experience you’ve had with the Multi Family Mindset’s team. Sadly there’s a lot of bad actors out there peddling similar courses and schemes. Not even Ivy League master programs in real estate provide the representations and guarantees these mentorship programs provide.  I’m surprised that in itself isn’t viewed as a red flag. 

[Evan Polaski]

@Lutfiya Mosley, I am very sorry you had to go through this experience.  These guru courses are almost always started by people who are, themselves, trying to get into the syndication business.  Those that can, do.  Those that can't, teach.  

I am grateful that you shared this, because I do think a lot of these gurus, while generally having good intentions, are typically very naive and lack experience to truly teach anything.  And many, get into real estate investing, thinking it will make them rich right away.  Then they realize it didn't and they need to find a new way to make money to keep the real estate investing going.  And, honestly, selling the impression of education is very lucrative.

[Ciel Rose]

Fiya, keep on going! Thank you for all that you are doing to expose them. I am so sorry that you have to be the trailblazer on this one but those coming after you will be thankful. The $40 000 USD price tag was not worth what we were given. I also purchased the "training/coaching" and received very little support and what I did receive was not very valuable. In addition, the company that they recommend we work with, Prime, helped me set up my companies and though I repeatedly asked them if there were any differences in how it was set up because I was a Canadian, I was told that the way they suggested I do it was the right way. Well, come tax time, I had to unravel 3 LLCs with quite a bit of expense and am paying double tax because of their lack of care and knowledge. All so unnecessary. When I contacted MFM, they told me to direct my complaints to Prime as they operate independently of them. I am sure I will get nowhere with them. My requests for other matters through MFM have gone nowhere and even after requesting a refund and some help with Prime they sent me a video and an email with a special offer to renew for another year.

[Lutfiya Mosley]

Quote from @Ciel Rose:

Fiya, keep on going! Thank you for all that you are doing to expose them. I am so sorry that you have to be the trailblazer on this one but those coming after you will be thankful. The $40 000 USD price tag was not worth what we were given. I also purchased the "training/coaching" and received very little support and what I did receive was not very valuable. In addition, the company that they recommend we work with, Prime, helped me set up my companies and though I repeatedly asked them if there were any differences in how it was set up because I was a Canadian, I was told that the way they suggested I do it was the right way. Well, come tax time, I had to unravel 3 LLCs with quite a bit of expense and am paying double tax because of their lack of care and knowledge. All so unnecessary. When I contacted MFM, they told me to direct my complaints to Prime as they operate independently of them. I am sure I will get nowhere with them. My requests for other matters through MFM have gone nowhere and even after requesting a refund and some help with Prime they sent me a video and an email with a special offer to renew for another year.

[Lutfiya Mosley]

Ciel,

Thank you for sharing. To clarify for those reading the company is Prime Corporate Services out of Utah. The Multifamily Mindset also sell a website service called Engager AI to new students as well. Over the four years there’s been many complaints about Prime Corporate Services. It has cost many people including myself a lot of unnecessary money and still is because you deal with the tax portion of opening unnecessary LLCs recommended by supposed professionals. I question if they get kick backs or actually hold ownership in this company. Many education programs that could be scams promote junk services and the quality of all they sell or promote is definitely junk. 
Everyone is suffering because of the damage this company has created and continues to especially those who invested in properties. I forgot to mention another sales tactic is to tell people at the three day class you can charge your investors the 40k tuition. The salesperson says, put it in the closing statement or underwriting template somewhere. Not true. 

[Jessica Kiko]

I invested my first deal with Multi-Family Capital Partners nearly 5 years ago, and I joined their MFM educational coaching program 2 1/2 years ago. I deeply regret doing both. Getting needed coaching from professionals who had made deals was difficult and the two deals I invested in were very poorly managed from the beginning.  This resulted in needing to bring in a rescue fund to take over the property and change the name, pushing our original investors down to B-2 status. I may never see any of my original investment capital again. The company did not oversee the property management until it was too late.  

This is so scary, I would NEVER do this type of deal again, and many investors are experiencing the same thing, except some are not even aware of the seriousness of their investment losses yet.  Two of the seven properties in one of my funds are either already foreclosed or about to restructure and shove down the original investors, like was done on my deal.  Also, $200,000 of one of my investments has never shown up on the K-1, and no one answers my emails or phone calls to correct it.  It's genuinely the nightmare I never wanted to have.  

Like Fiya, posting about my loss and this frustrating experience will hopefully expose this company's faulty practices and help others steer clear of Tyler Deveraux, Ryan Woolley, MF Capital Partners, MFM, their new companies, and groups like them.  It's not right.

[Jordan Townes]

so why are you people that already sunk 40k into this not paying a little more a getting a  lawyer?

[Chris Seveney]

Quote from @Jordan Townes:

so why are you people that already sunk 40k into this not paying a little more a getting a  lawyer?

 Looks like they are all not getting along:

Orange County Clerk of Courts Records Search (myorangeclerk.com)

[Lutfiya Mosley]

Quote from @Jordan Townes:

so why are you people that already sunk 40k into this not paying a little more a getting a  lawyer?

 I have already spent quite a bit on attorney's fees myself. I agree more people need to inquire. I am a GP on one of their deals. It is a disaster! I was a student they offered to sponsor a deal for and it has cost me everything, literally. 

Sadly, there are quite a few people over 65 on the verge of losing all their retirement money they put into these guy's investments that are doing terribly while they both go start new ones. They have one fund called the Ekahi fund which Jessi who commented above is in. It is a 30M fund on the verge of failure. I am on one property it funded although I was never told that until I discovered it myself recently. There is another fund called Aloha, which is about 30M and is also doing very poorly. They have people invested in individual properties, especially students.

 The property I am on they are trying to avoid foreclosure by turning it over to a rescue fund and diluting investor's money. In the original webinars for this fund, they told them they would return all capital in three years. They are at year 2 1/2 and now say you "might" get 50% in 3-5 more years. I have not received any return on my money. They held a webinar for the Ekahi fund and told them they fired the property management, false they quit due to lack of funds. They said did not need their approval to turn their money over to new GP's but we will let you vote anyway.

I am also on the loan. I have been kicked out of every form of communication relating to this deal. When they decided to inquire about the rescue fund they left me out of all of it then threw me on a call with the lender, rescue fund, an attorney they hired for themselves and a few partners. Talk about mistreating someone and trying to back them into a corner, I had no information. I have since inquired with a new attorney, more money out of my pocket. It does appear everything they have done in the past four years is catching up, people are reporting them but at the same time, they start new investments with new people and keep selling the program. I hope more investors come on and give honest reviews so others can be spared from the worst experience I've had in many years.

[Adam Michael Andrews]

Quote from @Chris Seveney:

Quote from @Jordan Townes:

so why are you people that already sunk 40k into this not paying a little more a getting a  lawyer?

 Looks like they are all not getting along:

Orange County Clerk of Courts Records Search (myorangeclerk.com)

 Lurid. Can't imagine being in business with characters like this. 

[Chris Seveney]

Quote from @Lutfiya Mosley:

Quote from @Jordan Townes:

so why are you people that already sunk 40k into this not paying a little more a getting a  lawyer?

 I have already spent quite a bit on attorney's fees myself. I agree more people need to inquire. I am a GP on one of their deals. It is a disaster! I was a student they offered to sponsor a deal for and it has cost me everything, literally. 

Sadly, there are quite a few people over 65 on the verge of losing all their retirement money they put into these guy's investments that are doing terribly while they both go start new ones. They have one fund called the Ekahi fund which Jessi who commented above is in. It is a 30M fund on the verge of failure. I am on one property it funded although I was never told that until I discovered it myself recently. There is another fund called Aloha, which is about 30M and is also doing very poorly. They have people invested in individual properties, especially students.

 The property I am on they are trying to avoid foreclosure by turning it over to a rescue fund and diluting investor's money. In the original webinars for this fund, they told them they would return all capital in three years. They are at year 2 1/2 and now say you "might" get 50% in 3-5 more years. I have not received any return on my money. They held a webinar for the Ekahi fund and told them they fired the property management, false they quit due to lack of funds. They said did not need their approval to turn their money over to new GP's but we will let you vote anyway.

I am also on the loan. I have been kicked out of every form of communication relating to this deal. When they decided to inquire about the rescue fund they left me out of all of it then threw me on a call with the lender, rescue fund, an attorney they hired for themselves and a few partners. Talk about mistreating someone and trying to back them into a corner, I had no information. I have since inquired with a new attorney, more money out of my pocket. It does appear everything they have done in the past four years is catching up, people are reporting them but at the same time, they start new investments with new people and keep selling the program. I hope more investors come on and give honest reviews so others can be spared from the worst experience I've had in many years.

what is your attorney doing? do you have a good attorney? I would have just filed a lawsuit against them and took it from there.

[Pokie Maynard]

There should be a class action law suit again multifamily mindset that has ripped off so many people and tore their lives apart in a horrible way. I became a member two years ago, striking zero deals. Multifamily mindset has recruited students from all walks of life such as teachers, medical doctors, veterans, real estate agents, business men, and I was included into a group (multifamily mindset encourages students to form groups) and one of them is a veteran who is divorced, has kids to support, not employed during that time, got a loan of $40,000 for the tuition. After enough try, he made nothing happen. He was terribly miserable, and you can tell from his Facebook postings he sounds desperate, you know the multifamily mindset Facebook group. Later on people heard him saying that he wanted to kill himself due to all the failed deals. You put all efforts and finally the outcome is zero. 

One of their so called instructors from one of the training sessions asks the students to go to the five star hotels, or go play golf, or go horse riding, or go hang out at the high end night clubs for the sake of fund raising. I called them horror jokes. Who will give the hard earned money to strangers? 

Let's do a math: one student x $40,000, then 1000 students x $40,000....... Seriously how many students that have been tricked into their training program? It's worse than the Trump University. 

[Nathan Gesner]

One more reason why people should stop looking for the easy path to building wealth.

Increase earnings, reduce expenses, save, and invest. You don't need partners, coaches, fast acceleration, etc. Take your time, be wise, and time will reward you.

[Chris Seveney]

Quote from @Nathan Gesner:

One more reason why people should stop looking for the easy path to building wealth.

Increase earnings, reduce expenses, save, and invest. You don't need partners, coaches, fast acceleration, etc. Take your time, be wise, and time will reward you.

 agree 100%. you have people here on BP who have been in real estate for 20+ years and always talk about the risk and how hard it is - and then you have people who will tell you that after a weekend of a month you can make six figures in real estate. 

Unfortunately it does not work that way.

[Jay Hinrichs]

Quote from @Lutfiya Mosley:

Ciel,

Thank you for sharing. To clarify for those reading the company is Prime Corporate Services out of Utah. The Multifamily Mindset also sell a website service called Engager AI to new students as well. Over the four years there’s been many complaints about Prime Corporate Services. It has cost many people including myself a lot of unnecessary money and still is because you deal with the tax portion of opening unnecessary LLCs recommended by supposed professionals. I question if they get kick backs or actually hold ownership in this company. Many education programs that could be scams promote junk services and the quality of all they sell or promote is definitely junk. 
Everyone is suffering because of the damage this company has created and continues to especially those who invested in properties. I forgot to mention another sales tactic is to tell people at the three day class you can charge your investors the 40k tuition. The salesperson says, put it in the closing statement or underwriting template somewhere. Not true. 

there ya go another Utah based fullfilment and education company.  utah is ground zero for these enterprises.

[Lutfiya Mosley]

Quote from @Pokie Maynard:

There should be a class action law suit again multifamily mindset that has ripped off so many people and tore their lives apart in a horrible way. I became a member two years ago, striking zero deals. Multifamily mindset has recruited students from all walks of life such as teachers, medical doctors, veterans, real estate agents, business men, and I was included into a group (multifamily mindset encourages students to form groups) and one of them is a veteran who is divorced, has kids to support, not employed during that time, got a loan of $40,000 for the tuition. After enough try, he made nothing happen. He was terribly miserable, and you can tell from his Facebook postings he sounds desperate, you know the multifamily mindset Facebook group. Later on people heard him saying that he wanted to kill himself due to all the failed deals. You put all efforts and finally the outcome is zero. 

One of their so called instructors from one of the training sessions asks the students to go to the five star hotels, or go play golf, or go horse riding, or go hang out at the high end night clubs for the sake of fund raising. I called them horror jokes. Who will give the hard earned money to strangers? 

Let's do a math: one student x $40,000, then 1000 students x $40,000....... Seriously how many students that have been tricked into their training program? It's worse than the Trump University. 

[Lutfiya Mosley]

I am extremely sad and not at all surprised to hear this. On the investment side there are quite a few elderly people in very bad circumstances. One lady has no money left and her husband went into hospice. All we can do is speak up because this needs to end so I appreciate you participating in standing up for what is right. 

[Lutfiya Mosley]

Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:

Quote from @Lutfiya Mosley:

Ciel,

Thank you for sharing. To clarify for those reading the company is Prime Corporate Services out of Utah. The Multifamily Mindset also sell a website service called Engager AI to new students as well. Over the four years there’s been many complaints about Prime Corporate Services. It has cost many people including myself a lot of unnecessary money and still is because you deal with the tax portion of opening unnecessary LLCs recommended by supposed professionals. I question if they get kick backs or actually hold ownership in this company. Many education programs that could be scams promote junk services and the quality of all they sell or promote is definitely junk. 
Everyone is suffering because of the damage this company has created and continues to especially those who invested in properties. I forgot to mention another sales tactic is to tell people at the three day class you can charge your investors the 40k tuition. The salesperson says, put it in the closing statement or underwriting template somewhere. Not true. 

there ya go another Utah based fullfilment and education company.  utah is ground zero for these enterprises.