Agent looking to start direct to seller for motivated sellers
Gregory SchwartzBusiness Member
Rental Property Investor · College Station, TX · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
Schwartz Realty Group5118 Reviews
Agent looking to start direct to seller for motivated sellers
Most Popular Reply
Investor · Get yourself trained before doing something inadvisable. · Member since 2024 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes
1yQuote from @Jerryll Noorden:
Quote from @Kieron Osullivan:
Quote from @Jerryll Noorden:
Try to change the way you think/approach success.
Said it before, will say it again.
A lot of people do this:
Hey… I have 3 wives, 4 girlfriends on the side, 5 dogs, 6 jobs, I can only devote $200 every 5 months, and I have only 2 hours/month available to work on my business… how do I become successful?
Instead, you need to realize that success (or the universe, for that matter) won’t bend backward for you.
Instead of asking how to become successful based on your limitations, you need to turn it around.
First, you need to determine what it takes to become successful!? Then, use what you have to get what it takes to become successful.
If success takes 12 hours a day, $3,000/month on marketing, a solid education, knowledge of marketing, and deal-making—then that is what it takes.
The reason most people struggle is exactly this.
Understand this.
You can’t target motivated sellers. It is absolutely impossible. The reason why? Because no one—and nothing—can predict when someone becomes motivated.
Circumstance (like foreclosure) does not imply motivation. Motivation is an emotional response to a circumstance, not the circumstance itself.
To fully grasp this, you need to understand what a motivated seller actually is.
Many people think a motivated seller is anyone who wants to, needs to, or HAS to sell their house.
That is wrong.
A motivated seller has only one characteristic:
Anyone willing to sell their house below market value. The reason why does not matter.
Take someone in foreclosure.
Do they have to sell? YES.
And if they don’t sell, aren’t they going to be in trouble? YES.
Are they willing to sell below market value? NO.
They’d rather burn the house to the ground out of pure spite than sell to you at market value—let alone at a discount.
Once you understand the basics, you’ll soon realize that the ways everyone tells you to get motivated seller leads are factually, universally wrong.
Not an opinion. Just pure facts.
You can’t target them. They target you.
"You can’t target motivated sellers. It is absolutely impossible. The reason why? Because no one—and nothing—can predict when someone becomes motivated."
I can: when a person is starving and hasn't eaten a meal in days they are motivated to find food themselves or buy it from someone else. If they dont, eventually they die.
If I want to sell food i would target starving people because they are motivated by the avoidance of starvation and death.
This is what motivated means according to the English language dictionary:
provide (someone) with a reason for doing something.
Someone whos home is being foreclosed, where they have defaulted and an auction/sale has been set is being given a reason to pay the debt back. If they cant pay off the debt there homes will be sold, they will lose all equity, tarnished credit history and be homeless.
A wholesaler can come in and potentially save credit history, setup a deal to keep them in there home and even structure a deal to get the homeowner some equity back.
The wholesaler/investor would never know this opportunity existed if they di not find a record/notice/document that indicated the home was being foreclosed on. The lead gave them the knowledge and motivation to potentially make a substantial profit and help the borrower.
This is why people buy leads and lists consisting of records showing people are in the process of losing there homes. The process motivates them to sell.
If they are not motivated to sell to a wholesaler for a lot cheaper because of the legal process they are in, what has made them sell it for less?
No, you can't.
I am going to take a lot of effort here and write something for you and everyone to finally change the way you think.
Pick 1000 people from your favorite Foreclosure list and ask them:
“Do you want to sell your house or would you rather keep it?”
1000 out of 1000 will say: “I rather keep it”.
Now take 1000 people from your favorite Tax Lien list and ask them the same question:
Do you want to sell your house or would you rather keep it?”
They’ll say: “I rather keep it”.
Ask anyone on any of your lists the exact same question and the answer will be the same. You are going after people who explicitly rather keep their house than sell it, to try to convince them to sell it. Really really REALLY Stupid, no?
This is equivalent to buying a list of vegans, to try sell them baby-cow burgers.
Now, Hold that thought…
I’m going to give you facts, not opinions. After reading this, do whatever you want with it—but don’t argue with me (please). It will fall on deaf ears. I really am not going to go back and forth on this.
Let’s start with actual numbers—YOUR OWN data.
If foreclosures were truly motivated, it wouldn’t take 5,000 mailers, calls, or texts to get a contract signed.
Your food analogy? You clearly don’t understand what a motivated seller is.
From your writing, it’s evident you believe a motivated seller is simply someone who wants to, needs to or has to sell their house (hence your foreclosure example).
The truth? A motivated seller is anyone willing to sell below market value, no matter what the reasons for selling are.
Let’s take your example—someone in foreclosure.
- Don’t they HAVE to sell? Yes.
- And if they don’t sell, aren’t bad things going to happen to them? Absolutely.
- Are they willing to sell below market value? Absolutely not. At least 3,000 to 5,000 to 1 says NO!
These people would rather rip out the cabinets, take the fridge—hell, even burn the house down out of spite than sell at market value, let alone at a discount.
Let me simplify it for you:
5,000 mailers for one closed deal = 0.02% success rate.
That means your failure rate is 99.98%.
So, can you really sit there and tell me you can target motivated sellers when it takes 5,000+ attempts to close one deal? (Rhetorical question—the answer is obviously no.)
Numbers don’t lie.
Your opinion doesn’t change mathematics. The numbers are what they are.
If you could target motivated sellers (which is different from finding them), your failure rate wouldn’t be 99.98%, right? Right!
Now if you are a good sport, let's talk about your clever reference to the definition of motivated “according to dictionary” and let me show you where you went wrong:
First:
Motivation is an internal state that drives people to take some of action or make a decision. Yes. So in your/this case, this would translate to, “Yes, they decided they want to sell their house.. They agree to sell their house”.
Sure, but you are missing the most important part. Coming to the decision to sell their house, is NOT the same as willingness to sell below market value. And there lies the grounds behind the fact that you can’t TARGET them. Remember, finding them, and targeting them are two completely different things.
Second:
Many people like you think that “circumstance” implies “motivation”. But that is wrong. Circumstance (like tax liens, foreclosure etc. etc.) does not in ANY way imply motivation. Motivation is an emotional response to a circumstance. Not the circumstance itself. So yes, although the sensible solution to a foreclosure is to sell fast for cash, the emotional response however is to find ways to keep their house not sell it.
I hope this makes you see the error in your ways.
I’ll repeat—I’m not here to debate this. Believe what you want. But this isn’t a contest of who’s right or wrong, who’s smart and who isn’t.
You can have that trophy—I truly don’t care.
My only intention was to correct a completely false narrative about lead generation, and instead, I’m met with pure and complete ignorance. But I won’t lose sleep over it.
Really, man… Keep sending mailers to the foreclosure list. I truly wish you the best of luck with that (not being sarcastic, I just truly don't care what you do with this knowledge... but I do hope you use it wisely).
My Stats prof taught me that there are lies, damn lies and statistics. ;-)
30 Replies
- 1yMichael K GallagherBusiness MemberReal Estate Agent · Columbus OH · Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
@Gregory Schwartz I share in this desire and I also have deal machine. I don't quite have that budget behind it but would be curious how you are using it? are you doing the driving for dollars or more of a list pull? been thinking about going old school lately and just driving areas of interest for distress.
Quote from @Gregory Schwartz:
I’m an investor agent in Bryan-College Station Texas, and I want to start sourcing off-market deals to provide exclusive opportunities for my top investor clients. Sellers would have three options: sell to my clients, sell to me, or list on the market. I’m NOT planning to wholesale—just creating more deal flow for my agent business.
Back in 2020, I sent 500 postcards/month via DealMachine for about a year and a half this resulted in 2 off-market deals that I purchased. Now, with a $1,000–$2,000/month budget, I want to restart but am open to different marketing strategies.
- What’s working best for you at this budget?
- Should I stick with mailers or explore cold calling, PPC, SMS, etc.?
- What lists have been most effective for motivated sellers?
- Any lessons learned from your experience?
I’d love to hear your insights—thanks in advance!
What kind of budget was you using when you was sending out 500 Postcards a month. It is my understanding from others and personal experience from last year that Direct Mail is having less results. I’m definitely interested in the topic you created.
- Rental Property Investor · College Station, TX · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes1yI'll be honest, that was a few years back and not a well-organized campaign. I think I was spending a couple hundred a month. We were identifying properties by driving for dollars.
Quote from @Joe S.:
Quote from @Gregory Schwartz:
I’m an investor agent in Bryan-College Station Texas, and I want to start sourcing off-market deals to provide exclusive opportunities for my top investor clients. Sellers would have three options: sell to my clients, sell to me, or list on the market. I’m NOT planning to wholesale—just creating more deal flow for my agent business.
Back in 2020, I sent 500 postcards/month via DealMachine for about a year and a half this resulted in 2 off-market deals that I purchased. Now, with a $1,000–$2,000/month budget, I want to restart but am open to different marketing strategies.
- What’s working best for you at this budget?
- Should I stick with mailers or explore cold calling, PPC, SMS, etc.?
- What lists have been most effective for motivated sellers?
- Any lessons learned from your experience?
I’d love to hear your insights—thanks in advance!
What kind of budget was you using when you was sending out 500 Postcards a month. It is my understanding from others and personal experience from last year that Direct Mail is having less results. I’m definitely interested in the topic you created.
Schwartz Realty Group5118 Reviews
- Flipper/Rehabber · Wilton, CT · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes1y
Try to change the way you think/approach success.
Said it before, will say it again.
A lot of people do this:
Hey… I have 3 wives, 4 girlfriends on the side, 5 dogs, 6 jobs, I can only devote $200 every 5 months, and I have only 2 hours/month available to work on my business… how do I become successful?
Instead, you need to realize that success (or the universe, for that matter) won’t bend backward for you.
Instead of asking how to become successful based on your limitations, you need to turn it around.
First, you need to determine what it takes to become successful!? Then, use what you have to get what it takes to become successful.
If success takes 12 hours a day, $3,000/month on marketing, a solid education, knowledge of marketing, and deal-making—then that is what it takes.
The reason most people struggle is exactly this.
Understand this.
You can’t target motivated sellers. It is absolutely impossible. The reason why? Because no one—and nothing—can predict when someone becomes motivated.
Circumstance (like foreclosure) does not imply motivation. Motivation is an emotional response to a circumstance, not the circumstance itself.
To fully grasp this, you need to understand what a motivated seller actually is.
Many people think a motivated seller is anyone who wants to, needs to, or HAS to sell their house.
That is wrong.
A motivated seller has only one characteristic:
Anyone willing to sell their house below market value. The reason why does not matter.
Take someone in foreclosure.
Do they have to sell? YES.
And if they don’t sell, aren’t they going to be in trouble? YES.
Are they willing to sell below market value? NO.
They’d rather burn the house to the ground out of pure spite than sell to you at market value—let alone at a discount.
Once you understand the basics, you’ll soon realize that the ways everyone tells you to get motivated seller leads are factually, universally wrong.
Not an opinion. Just pure facts.
You can’t target them. They target you.
- Rental Property Investor · College Station, TX · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes1y
Quote from @Jerryll Noorden:
Try to change the way you think/approach success.
Said it before, will say it again.
A lot of people do this:
Hey… I have 3 wives, 4 girlfriends on the side, 5 dogs, 6 jobs, I can only devote $200 every 5 months, and I have only 2 hours/month available to work on my business… how do I become successful?
Instead, you need to realize that success (or the universe, for that matter) won’t bend backward for you.
Instead of asking how to become successful based on your limitations, you need to turn it around.
First, you need to determine what it takes to become successful!? Then, use what you have to get what it takes to become successful.
If success takes 12 hours a day, $3,000/month on marketing, a solid education, knowledge of marketing, and deal-making—then that is what it takes.
The reason most people struggle is exactly this.
Understand this.
You can’t target motivated sellers. It is absolutely impossible. The reason why? Because no one—and nothing—can predict when someone becomes motivated.
Circumstance (like foreclosure) does not imply motivation. Motivation is an emotional response to a circumstance, not the circumstance itself.
To fully grasp this, you need to understand what a motivated seller actually is.
Many people think a motivated seller is anyone who wants to, needs to, or HAS to sell their house.
That is wrong.
A motivated seller has only one characteristic:
Anyone willing to sell their house below market value. The reason why does not matter.
Take someone in foreclosure.
Do they have to sell? YES.
And if they don’t sell, aren’t they going to be in trouble? YES.
Are they willing to sell below market value? NO.
They’d rather burn the house to the ground out of pure spite than sell to you at market value—let alone at a discount.
Once you understand the basics, you’ll soon realize that the ways everyone tells you to get motivated seller leads are factually, universally wrong.
Not an opinion. Just pure facts.
You can’t target them. They target you.
Good ad for SEO but you didnt provide any tactical advice or answer my question. But thanks for spamming my post.Schwartz Realty Group5118 Reviews - Flipper/Rehabber · Wilton, CT · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes1y
Quote from @Gregory Schwartz:
Quote from @Jerryll Noorden:
Try to change the way you think/approach success.
Said it before, will say it again.
A lot of people do this:
Hey… I have 3 wives, 4 girlfriends on the side, 5 dogs, 6 jobs, I can only devote $200 every 5 months, and I have only 2 hours/month available to work on my business… how do I become successful?
Instead, you need to realize that success (or the universe, for that matter) won’t bend backward for you.
Instead of asking how to become successful based on your limitations, you need to turn it around.
First, you need to determine what it takes to become successful!? Then, use what you have to get what it takes to become successful.
If success takes 12 hours a day, $3,000/month on marketing, a solid education, knowledge of marketing, and deal-making—then that is what it takes.
The reason most people struggle is exactly this.
Understand this.
You can’t target motivated sellers. It is absolutely impossible. The reason why? Because no one—and nothing—can predict when someone becomes motivated.
Circumstance (like foreclosure) does not imply motivation. Motivation is an emotional response to a circumstance, not the circumstance itself.
To fully grasp this, you need to understand what a motivated seller actually is.
Many people think a motivated seller is anyone who wants to, needs to, or HAS to sell their house.
That is wrong.
A motivated seller has only one characteristic:
Anyone willing to sell their house below market value. The reason why does not matter.
Take someone in foreclosure.
Do they have to sell? YES.
And if they don’t sell, aren’t they going to be in trouble? YES.
Are they willing to sell below market value? NO.
They’d rather burn the house to the ground out of pure spite than sell to you at market value—let alone at a discount.
Once you understand the basics, you’ll soon realize that the ways everyone tells you to get motivated seller leads are factually, universally wrong.
Not an opinion. Just pure facts.
You can’t target them. They target you.
Good ad for SEO but you didnt provide any tactical advice or answer my question. But thanks for spamming my post.wow!
I have given you factual information that what you are doing is simply wrong. Giving you an opportunity to improve.
Let me ask you this and I challenge, dare, triple chicken dare you to note anything in my post that is wrong.
I will wait for your reply.
I have given you facts of the things that everyone simply does wrong and I took my time to answer your concern educating you so you can take this information and do better, YOURSELF.Here is what you asked:
- What’s working best for you at this budget?
- Should I stick with mailers or explore cold calling, PPC, SMS, etc.?
- What lists have been most effective for motivated sellers?
- Any lessons learned from your experience?
Q: Should you stick with mailers?
A: No, why? mailers attempt to target motivated sellers. You can't target them.
Q: What list have been most effective?
A: None. It is random. They all have a 0.02% success rate. Why? You can not target motivated sellers.
Q: Any lessons learned from that experience?
A: Yes, you can't target motivated sellers. If those methods were targeting motivated sellers, it wouldn't take you 5000 mailers calls or texts to get one deal. The numbers do not lie. The logic doesn't lie.
Q: What is the best strategy for a $xxx budget?
A: It doesn't work that way. there are set requirements for lead generation. It doesn't depend on what you can afford. It depends on what it costs. You don't go to a Bugatti dealership and say, hey I have $500, how do I get the latest model? Doesn't work that way right?
Good luck man.
- Specialist · United Kingdom · Member since 2024 · 53 posts · 7 votes1y
Quote from @Jerryll Noorden:
Try to change the way you think/approach success.
Said it before, will say it again.
A lot of people do this:
Hey… I have 3 wives, 4 girlfriends on the side, 5 dogs, 6 jobs, I can only devote $200 every 5 months, and I have only 2 hours/month available to work on my business… how do I become successful?
Instead, you need to realize that success (or the universe, for that matter) won’t bend backward for you.
Instead of asking how to become successful based on your limitations, you need to turn it around.
First, you need to determine what it takes to become successful!? Then, use what you have to get what it takes to become successful.
If success takes 12 hours a day, $3,000/month on marketing, a solid education, knowledge of marketing, and deal-making—then that is what it takes.
The reason most people struggle is exactly this.
Understand this.
You can’t target motivated sellers. It is absolutely impossible. The reason why? Because no one—and nothing—can predict when someone becomes motivated.
Circumstance (like foreclosure) does not imply motivation. Motivation is an emotional response to a circumstance, not the circumstance itself.
To fully grasp this, you need to understand what a motivated seller actually is.
Many people think a motivated seller is anyone who wants to, needs to, or HAS to sell their house.
That is wrong.
A motivated seller has only one characteristic:
Anyone willing to sell their house below market value. The reason why does not matter.
Take someone in foreclosure.
Do they have to sell? YES.
And if they don’t sell, aren’t they going to be in trouble? YES.
Are they willing to sell below market value? NO.
They’d rather burn the house to the ground out of pure spite than sell to you at market value—let alone at a discount.
Once you understand the basics, you’ll soon realize that the ways everyone tells you to get motivated seller leads are factually, universally wrong.
Not an opinion. Just pure facts.
You can’t target them. They target you.
"You can’t target motivated sellers. It is absolutely impossible. The reason why? Because no one—and nothing—can predict when someone becomes motivated."
I can: when a person is starving and hasn't eaten a meal in days they are motivated to find food themselves or buy it from someone else. If they dont, eventually they die.
If I want to sell food i would target starving people because they are motivated by the avoidance of starvation and death.This is what motivated means according to the English language dictionary:
provide (someone) with a reason for doing something.
Someone whos home is being foreclosed, where they have defaulted and an auction/sale has been set is being given a reason to pay the debt back. If they cant pay off the debt there homes will be sold, they will lose all equity, tarnished credit history and be homeless.
A wholesaler can come in and potentially save credit history, setup a deal to keep them in there home and even structure a deal to get the homeowner some equity back.
The wholesaler/investor would never know this opportunity existed if they di not find a record/notice/document that indicated the home was being foreclosed on. The lead gave them the knowledge and motivation to potentially make a substantial profit and help the borrower.
This is why people buy leads and lists consisting of records showing people are in the process of losing there homes. The process motivates them to sell.
If they are not motivated to sell to a wholesaler for a lot cheaper because of the legal process they are in, what has made them sell it for less? - Flipper/Rehabber · Wilton, CT · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes1y
Quote from @Kieron Osullivan:
Quote from @Jerryll Noorden:
Try to change the way you think/approach success.
Said it before, will say it again.
A lot of people do this:
Hey… I have 3 wives, 4 girlfriends on the side, 5 dogs, 6 jobs, I can only devote $200 every 5 months, and I have only 2 hours/month available to work on my business… how do I become successful?
Instead, you need to realize that success (or the universe, for that matter) won’t bend backward for you.
Instead of asking how to become successful based on your limitations, you need to turn it around.
First, you need to determine what it takes to become successful!? Then, use what you have to get what it takes to become successful.
If success takes 12 hours a day, $3,000/month on marketing, a solid education, knowledge of marketing, and deal-making—then that is what it takes.
The reason most people struggle is exactly this.
Understand this.
You can’t target motivated sellers. It is absolutely impossible. The reason why? Because no one—and nothing—can predict when someone becomes motivated.
Circumstance (like foreclosure) does not imply motivation. Motivation is an emotional response to a circumstance, not the circumstance itself.
To fully grasp this, you need to understand what a motivated seller actually is.
Many people think a motivated seller is anyone who wants to, needs to, or HAS to sell their house.
That is wrong.
A motivated seller has only one characteristic:
Anyone willing to sell their house below market value. The reason why does not matter.
Take someone in foreclosure.
Do they have to sell? YES.
And if they don’t sell, aren’t they going to be in trouble? YES.
Are they willing to sell below market value? NO.
They’d rather burn the house to the ground out of pure spite than sell to you at market value—let alone at a discount.
Once you understand the basics, you’ll soon realize that the ways everyone tells you to get motivated seller leads are factually, universally wrong.
Not an opinion. Just pure facts.
You can’t target them. They target you.
"You can’t target motivated sellers. It is absolutely impossible. The reason why? Because no one—and nothing—can predict when someone becomes motivated."
I can: when a person is starving and hasn't eaten a meal in days they are motivated to find food themselves or buy it from someone else. If they dont, eventually they die.
If I want to sell food i would target starving people because they are motivated by the avoidance of starvation and death.This is what motivated means according to the English language dictionary:
provide (someone) with a reason for doing something.
Someone whos home is being foreclosed, where they have defaulted and an auction/sale has been set is being given a reason to pay the debt back. If they cant pay off the debt there homes will be sold, they will lose all equity, tarnished credit history and be homeless.
A wholesaler can come in and potentially save credit history, setup a deal to keep them in there home and even structure a deal to get the homeowner some equity back.
The wholesaler/investor would never know this opportunity existed if they di not find a record/notice/document that indicated the home was being foreclosed on. The lead gave them the knowledge and motivation to potentially make a substantial profit and help the borrower.
This is why people buy leads and lists consisting of records showing people are in the process of losing there homes. The process motivates them to sell.
If they are not motivated to sell to a wholesaler for a lot cheaper because of the legal process they are in, what has made them sell it for less?No, you can't.
I am going to take a lot of effort here and write something for you and everyone to finally change the way you think.
Pick 1000 people from your favorite Foreclosure list and ask them:
“Do you want to sell your house or would you rather keep it?”1000 out of 1000 will say: “I rather keep it”.
Now take 1000 people from your favorite Tax Lien list and ask them the same question:
Do you want to sell your house or would you rather keep it?”
They’ll say: “I rather keep it”.
Ask anyone on any of your lists the exact same question and the answer will be the same. You are going after people who explicitly rather keep their house than sell it, to try to convince them to sell it. Really really REALLY Stupid, no?
This is equivalent to buying a list of vegans, to try sell them baby-cow burgers.
Now, Hold that thought…
I’m going to give you facts, not opinions. After reading this, do whatever you want with it—but don’t argue with me (please). It will fall on deaf ears. I really am not going to go back and forth on this.
Let’s start with actual numbers—YOUR OWN data.
If foreclosures were truly motivated, it wouldn’t take 5,000 mailers, calls, or texts to get a contract signed.
Your food analogy? You clearly don’t understand what a motivated seller is.
From your writing, it’s evident you believe a motivated seller is simply someone who wants to, needs to or has to sell their house (hence your foreclosure example).
The truth? A motivated seller is anyone willing to sell below market value, no matter what the reasons for selling are.
Let’s take your example—someone in foreclosure.
- Don’t they HAVE to sell? Yes.
- And if they don’t sell, aren’t bad things going to happen to them? Absolutely.
- Are they willing to sell below market value? Absolutely not. At least 3,000 to 5,000 to 1 says NO!
These people would rather rip out the cabinets, take the fridge—hell, even burn the house down out of spite than sell at market value, let alone at a discount.
Let me simplify it for you:
5,000 mailers for one closed deal = 0.02% success rate.
That means your failure rate is 99.98%.So, can you really sit there and tell me you can target motivated sellers when it takes 5,000+ attempts to close one deal? (Rhetorical question—the answer is obviously no.)
Numbers don’t lie.
Your opinion doesn’t change mathematics. The numbers are what they are.
If you could target motivated sellers (which is different from finding them), your failure rate wouldn’t be 99.98%, right? Right!
Now if you are a good sport, let's talk about your clever reference to the definition of motivated “according to dictionary” and let me show you where you went wrong:
First:
Motivation is an internal state that drives people to take some of action or make a decision. Yes. So in your/this case, this would translate to, “Yes, they decided they want to sell their house.. They agree to sell their house”.
Sure, but you are missing the most important part. Coming to the decision to sell their house, is NOT the same as willingness to sell below market value. And there lies the grounds behind the fact that you can’t TARGET them. Remember, finding them, and targeting them are two completely different things.
Second:
Many people like you think that “circumstance” implies “motivation”. But that is wrong. Circumstance (like tax liens, foreclosure etc. etc.) does not in ANY way imply motivation. Motivation is an emotional response to a circumstance. Not the circumstance itself. So yes, although the sensible solution to a foreclosure is to sell fast for cash, the emotional response however is to find ways to keep their house not sell it.
I hope this makes you see the error in your ways.
I’ll repeat—I’m not here to debate this. Believe what you want. But this isn’t a contest of who’s right or wrong, who’s smart and who isn’t.
You can have that trophy—I truly don’t care.
My only intention was to correct a completely false narrative about lead generation, and instead, I’m met with pure and complete ignorance. But I won’t lose sleep over it.
Really, man… Keep sending mailers to the foreclosure list. I truly wish you the best of luck with that (not being sarcastic, I just truly don't care what you do with this knowledge... but I do hope you use it wisely).
- Investor · Get yourself trained before doing something inadvisable. · Member since 2024 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes1yYour comment: "Numbers don’t lie."
Quote from @Jerryll Noorden:
Quote from @Kieron Osullivan:
Quote from @Jerryll Noorden:
Try to change the way you think/approach success.
Said it before, will say it again.
A lot of people do this:
Hey… I have 3 wives, 4 girlfriends on the side, 5 dogs, 6 jobs, I can only devote $200 every 5 months, and I have only 2 hours/month available to work on my business… how do I become successful?
Instead, you need to realize that success (or the universe, for that matter) won’t bend backward for you.
Instead of asking how to become successful based on your limitations, you need to turn it around.
First, you need to determine what it takes to become successful!? Then, use what you have to get what it takes to become successful.
If success takes 12 hours a day, $3,000/month on marketing, a solid education, knowledge of marketing, and deal-making—then that is what it takes.
The reason most people struggle is exactly this.
Understand this.
You can’t target motivated sellers. It is absolutely impossible. The reason why? Because no one—and nothing—can predict when someone becomes motivated.
Circumstance (like foreclosure) does not imply motivation. Motivation is an emotional response to a circumstance, not the circumstance itself.
To fully grasp this, you need to understand what a motivated seller actually is.
Many people think a motivated seller is anyone who wants to, needs to, or HAS to sell their house.
That is wrong.
A motivated seller has only one characteristic:
Anyone willing to sell their house below market value. The reason why does not matter.
Take someone in foreclosure.
Do they have to sell? YES.
And if they don’t sell, aren’t they going to be in trouble? YES.
Are they willing to sell below market value? NO.
They’d rather burn the house to the ground out of pure spite than sell to you at market value—let alone at a discount.
Once you understand the basics, you’ll soon realize that the ways everyone tells you to get motivated seller leads are factually, universally wrong.
Not an opinion. Just pure facts.
You can’t target them. They target you.
"You can’t target motivated sellers. It is absolutely impossible. The reason why? Because no one—and nothing—can predict when someone becomes motivated."
I can: when a person is starving and hasn't eaten a meal in days they are motivated to find food themselves or buy it from someone else. If they dont, eventually they die.
If I want to sell food i would target starving people because they are motivated by the avoidance of starvation and death.This is what motivated means according to the English language dictionary:
provide (someone) with a reason for doing something.
Someone whos home is being foreclosed, where they have defaulted and an auction/sale has been set is being given a reason to pay the debt back. If they cant pay off the debt there homes will be sold, they will lose all equity, tarnished credit history and be homeless.
A wholesaler can come in and potentially save credit history, setup a deal to keep them in there home and even structure a deal to get the homeowner some equity back.
The wholesaler/investor would never know this opportunity existed if they di not find a record/notice/document that indicated the home was being foreclosed on. The lead gave them the knowledge and motivation to potentially make a substantial profit and help the borrower.
This is why people buy leads and lists consisting of records showing people are in the process of losing there homes. The process motivates them to sell.
If they are not motivated to sell to a wholesaler for a lot cheaper because of the legal process they are in, what has made them sell it for less?No, you can't.
I am going to take a lot of effort here and write something for you and everyone to finally change the way you think.
Pick 1000 people from your favorite Foreclosure list and ask them:
“Do you want to sell your house or would you rather keep it?”1000 out of 1000 will say: “I rather keep it”.
Now take 1000 people from your favorite Tax Lien list and ask them the same question:
Do you want to sell your house or would you rather keep it?”
They’ll say: “I rather keep it”.
Ask anyone on any of your lists the exact same question and the answer will be the same. You are going after people who explicitly rather keep their house than sell it, to try to convince them to sell it. Really really REALLY Stupid, no?
This is equivalent to buying a list of vegans, to try sell them baby-cow burgers.
Now, Hold that thought…
I’m going to give you facts, not opinions. After reading this, do whatever you want with it—but don’t argue with me (please). It will fall on deaf ears. I really am not going to go back and forth on this.
Let’s start with actual numbers—YOUR OWN data.
If foreclosures were truly motivated, it wouldn’t take 5,000 mailers, calls, or texts to get a contract signed.
Your food analogy? You clearly don’t understand what a motivated seller is.
From your writing, it’s evident you believe a motivated seller is simply someone who wants to, needs to or has to sell their house (hence your foreclosure example).
The truth? A motivated seller is anyone willing to sell below market value, no matter what the reasons for selling are.
Let’s take your example—someone in foreclosure.
- Don’t they HAVE to sell? Yes.
- And if they don’t sell, aren’t bad things going to happen to them? Absolutely.
- Are they willing to sell below market value? Absolutely not. At least 3,000 to 5,000 to 1 says NO!
These people would rather rip out the cabinets, take the fridge—hell, even burn the house down out of spite than sell at market value, let alone at a discount.
Let me simplify it for you:
5,000 mailers for one closed deal = 0.02% success rate.
That means your failure rate is 99.98%.So, can you really sit there and tell me you can target motivated sellers when it takes 5,000+ attempts to close one deal? (Rhetorical question—the answer is obviously no.)
Numbers don’t lie.
Your opinion doesn’t change mathematics. The numbers are what they are.
If you could target motivated sellers (which is different from finding them), your failure rate wouldn’t be 99.98%, right? Right!
Now if you are a good sport, let's talk about your clever reference to the definition of motivated “according to dictionary” and let me show you where you went wrong:
First:
Motivation is an internal state that drives people to take some of action or make a decision. Yes. So in your/this case, this would translate to, “Yes, they decided they want to sell their house.. They agree to sell their house”.
Sure, but you are missing the most important part. Coming to the decision to sell their house, is NOT the same as willingness to sell below market value. And there lies the grounds behind the fact that you can’t TARGET them. Remember, finding them, and targeting them are two completely different things.
Second:
Many people like you think that “circumstance” implies “motivation”. But that is wrong. Circumstance (like tax liens, foreclosure etc. etc.) does not in ANY way imply motivation. Motivation is an emotional response to a circumstance. Not the circumstance itself. So yes, although the sensible solution to a foreclosure is to sell fast for cash, the emotional response however is to find ways to keep their house not sell it.
I hope this makes you see the error in your ways.
I’ll repeat—I’m not here to debate this. Believe what you want. But this isn’t a contest of who’s right or wrong, who’s smart and who isn’t.
You can have that trophy—I truly don’t care.
My only intention was to correct a completely false narrative about lead generation, and instead, I’m met with pure and complete ignorance. But I won’t lose sleep over it.
Really, man… Keep sending mailers to the foreclosure list. I truly wish you the best of luck with that (not being sarcastic, I just truly don't care what you do with this knowledge... but I do hope you use it wisely).
My Stats prof taught me that there are lies, damn lies and statistics. ;-) - 1yJohn UnderwoodPro MemberInvestor · Greer, SC · Member since 2014 · 13k+ posts · 17k+ votesHe sells SEO if you can't tell.
Quote from @Gregory Schwartz:
Quote from @Jerryll Noorden:
Try to change the way you think/approach success.
Said it before, will say it again.
A lot of people do this:
Hey… I have 3 wives, 4 girlfriends on the side, 5 dogs, 6 jobs, I can only devote $200 every 5 months, and I have only 2 hours/month available to work on my business… how do I become successful?
Instead, you need to realize that success (or the universe, for that matter) won’t bend backward for you.
Instead of asking how to become successful based on your limitations, you need to turn it around.
First, you need to determine what it takes to become successful!? Then, use what you have to get what it takes to become successful.
If success takes 12 hours a day, $3,000/month on marketing, a solid education, knowledge of marketing, and deal-making—then that is what it takes.
The reason most people struggle is exactly this.
Understand this.
You can’t target motivated sellers. It is absolutely impossible. The reason why? Because no one—and nothing—can predict when someone becomes motivated.
Circumstance (like foreclosure) does not imply motivation. Motivation is an emotional response to a circumstance, not the circumstance itself.
To fully grasp this, you need to understand what a motivated seller actually is.
Many people think a motivated seller is anyone who wants to, needs to, or HAS to sell their house.
That is wrong.
A motivated seller has only one characteristic:
Anyone willing to sell their house below market value. The reason why does not matter.
Take someone in foreclosure.
Do they have to sell? YES.
And if they don’t sell, aren’t they going to be in trouble? YES.
Are they willing to sell below market value? NO.
They’d rather burn the house to the ground out of pure spite than sell to you at market value—let alone at a discount.
Once you understand the basics, you’ll soon realize that the ways everyone tells you to get motivated seller leads are factually, universally wrong.
Not an opinion. Just pure facts.
You can’t target them. They target you.
Good ad for SEO but you didnt provide any tactical advice or answer my question. But thanks for spamming my post.
Yes you can target motivated sellers and it works. - 1yJohn UnderwoodPro MemberInvestor · Greer, SC · Member since 2014 · 13k+ posts · 17k+ votesI fully agree Ken.
Quote from @Ken M.:
Your comment: "Numbers don’t lie."Quote from @Jerryll Noorden:
Quote from @Kieron Osullivan:
Quote from @Jerryll Noorden:
Try to change the way you think/approach success.
Said it before, will say it again.
A lot of people do this:
Hey… I have 3 wives, 4 girlfriends on the side, 5 dogs, 6 jobs, I can only devote $200 every 5 months, and I have only 2 hours/month available to work on my business… how do I become successful?
Instead, you need to realize that success (or the universe, for that matter) won’t bend backward for you.
Instead of asking how to become successful based on your limitations, you need to turn it around.
First, you need to determine what it takes to become successful!? Then, use what you have to get what it takes to become successful.
If success takes 12 hours a day, $3,000/month on marketing, a solid education, knowledge of marketing, and deal-making—then that is what it takes.
The reason most people struggle is exactly this.
Understand this.
You can’t target motivated sellers. It is absolutely impossible. The reason why? Because no one—and nothing—can predict when someone becomes motivated.
Circumstance (like foreclosure) does not imply motivation. Motivation is an emotional response to a circumstance, not the circumstance itself.
To fully grasp this, you need to understand what a motivated seller actually is.
Many people think a motivated seller is anyone who wants to, needs to, or HAS to sell their house.
That is wrong.
A motivated seller has only one characteristic:
Anyone willing to sell their house below market value. The reason why does not matter.
Take someone in foreclosure.
Do they have to sell? YES.
And if they don’t sell, aren’t they going to be in trouble? YES.
Are they willing to sell below market value? NO.
They’d rather burn the house to the ground out of pure spite than sell to you at market value—let alone at a discount.
Once you understand the basics, you’ll soon realize that the ways everyone tells you to get motivated seller leads are factually, universally wrong.
Not an opinion. Just pure facts.
You can’t target them. They target you.
"You can’t target motivated sellers. It is absolutely impossible. The reason why? Because no one—and nothing—can predict when someone becomes motivated."
I can: when a person is starving and hasn't eaten a meal in days they are motivated to find food themselves or buy it from someone else. If they dont, eventually they die.
If I want to sell food i would target starving people because they are motivated by the avoidance of starvation and death.This is what motivated means according to the English language dictionary:
provide (someone) with a reason for doing something.
Someone whos home is being foreclosed, where they have defaulted and an auction/sale has been set is being given a reason to pay the debt back. If they cant pay off the debt there homes will be sold, they will lose all equity, tarnished credit history and be homeless.
A wholesaler can come in and potentially save credit history, setup a deal to keep them in there home and even structure a deal to get the homeowner some equity back.
The wholesaler/investor would never know this opportunity existed if they di not find a record/notice/document that indicated the home was being foreclosed on. The lead gave them the knowledge and motivation to potentially make a substantial profit and help the borrower.
This is why people buy leads and lists consisting of records showing people are in the process of losing there homes. The process motivates them to sell.
If they are not motivated to sell to a wholesaler for a lot cheaper because of the legal process they are in, what has made them sell it for less?No, you can't.
I am going to take a lot of effort here and write something for you and everyone to finally change the way you think.
Pick 1000 people from your favorite Foreclosure list and ask them:
“Do you want to sell your house or would you rather keep it?”1000 out of 1000 will say: “I rather keep it”.
Now take 1000 people from your favorite Tax Lien list and ask them the same question:
Do you want to sell your house or would you rather keep it?”
They’ll say: “I rather keep it”.
Ask anyone on any of your lists the exact same question and the answer will be the same. You are going after people who explicitly rather keep their house than sell it, to try to convince them to sell it. Really really REALLY Stupid, no?
This is equivalent to buying a list of vegans, to try sell them baby-cow burgers.
Now, Hold that thought…
I’m going to give you facts, not opinions. After reading this, do whatever you want with it—but don’t argue with me (please). It will fall on deaf ears. I really am not going to go back and forth on this.
Let’s start with actual numbers—YOUR OWN data.
If foreclosures were truly motivated, it wouldn’t take 5,000 mailers, calls, or texts to get a contract signed.
Your food analogy? You clearly don’t understand what a motivated seller is.
From your writing, it’s evident you believe a motivated seller is simply someone who wants to, needs to or has to sell their house (hence your foreclosure example).
The truth? A motivated seller is anyone willing to sell below market value, no matter what the reasons for selling are.
Let’s take your example—someone in foreclosure.
- Don’t they HAVE to sell? Yes.
- And if they don’t sell, aren’t bad things going to happen to them? Absolutely.
- Are they willing to sell below market value? Absolutely not. At least 3,000 to 5,000 to 1 says NO!
These people would rather rip out the cabinets, take the fridge—hell, even burn the house down out of spite than sell at market value, let alone at a discount.
Let me simplify it for you:
5,000 mailers for one closed deal = 0.02% success rate.
That means your failure rate is 99.98%.So, can you really sit there and tell me you can target motivated sellers when it takes 5,000+ attempts to close one deal? (Rhetorical question—the answer is obviously no.)
Numbers don’t lie.
Your opinion doesn’t change mathematics. The numbers are what they are.
If you could target motivated sellers (which is different from finding them), your failure rate wouldn’t be 99.98%, right? Right!
Now if you are a good sport, let's talk about your clever reference to the definition of motivated “according to dictionary” and let me show you where you went wrong:
First:
Motivation is an internal state that drives people to take some of action or make a decision. Yes. So in your/this case, this would translate to, “Yes, they decided they want to sell their house.. They agree to sell their house”.
Sure, but you are missing the most important part. Coming to the decision to sell their house, is NOT the same as willingness to sell below market value. And there lies the grounds behind the fact that you can’t TARGET them. Remember, finding them, and targeting them are two completely different things.
Second:
Many people like you think that “circumstance” implies “motivation”. But that is wrong. Circumstance (like tax liens, foreclosure etc. etc.) does not in ANY way imply motivation. Motivation is an emotional response to a circumstance. Not the circumstance itself. So yes, although the sensible solution to a foreclosure is to sell fast for cash, the emotional response however is to find ways to keep their house not sell it.
I hope this makes you see the error in your ways.
I’ll repeat—I’m not here to debate this. Believe what you want. But this isn’t a contest of who’s right or wrong, who’s smart and who isn’t.
You can have that trophy—I truly don’t care.
My only intention was to correct a completely false narrative about lead generation, and instead, I’m met with pure and complete ignorance. But I won’t lose sleep over it.
Really, man… Keep sending mailers to the foreclosure list. I truly wish you the best of luck with that (not being sarcastic, I just truly don't care what you do with this knowledge... but I do hope you use it wisely).
My Stats prof taught me that there are lies, damn lies and statistics. ;-)
This guy gets on here and Spams discussions with false information.
- Rental Property Investor · College Station, TX · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes1y
Quote from @Christian Foschini:
Hey @Gregory Schwartz. You can tell me to F off if you're not interested, but my company offers multiple ways to market. We can do all the paid social, paid search, tv, radio, etc. You name it. We have a handful of REI clients already, so we're familiar with the industry. Something that I think would be more beneficial for someone in your position would be our marketing software oodapro.com. SMS, Email, Social blasts all automated. Voice AI agents and SMS agents. There is so much more that I can go over in a call. Just let me know or say F off haha. Thanks
Hey Christian, what I'd really prefer is some first-step recommendations. Or what's currently working for you and your clients.
Schwartz Realty Group5118 Reviews - Wholesaler · Chicago, IL · Member since 2018 · 84 posts · 83 votes1y
Hey Gregory, as I’m sure you know, the landscape has changed a lot over the last five years. Direct mail has gotten way more competitive, especially with texting regulations tightening up and investors shifting to more inbound strategies. Back in 2020, I’d say direct mail was a solid option for a $1,000 to $2,000 budget. In 2025? It’s okay, but probably not the best move.
I don’t know what your mail cost is, but let’s assume $1 per piece (you can definitely get lower). Even with a really effective mailer, response rates aren’t what they used to be. In 2020, you might’ve seen 1% or higher, but now, a strong piece might get you 0.5%—and that’s on the high end. So, if you send 2,000 mailers at that rate, you’d expect about 10 leads. Industry benchmarks put lead-to-contract conversion at 10%, meaning you’d likely land 1 contract from 2,000 mailers. Then, factor in cancellations—anywhere from 15% to 25%—because not every deal makes it to the finish line.
If you do go the direct mail route, I’d avoid simple postcards. They used to work, but you can kiss that 0.5% response rate goodbye if you go that route. Right now, the most effective content has an actual offer in it. A lot of people are using check mailers with fake check offers, but those are getting saturated. I’d expect around a 0.3% response rate, maybe a little better on your first run. We’ve had solid results with offer letters.
Everything I’m saying comes from experience—over the last four years, we’ve sent more than 2 million mailers and generated over $8 million, most of that in the last two years.
Have you looked into PPL (pay-per-lead) providers? That’s another option. We’ve used quite a few, and they’re hit-or-miss, but they can work. Two we’ve had decent experiences with are Lead Zolo and Property Leads. The key is speed to lead. You must be ready to call sellers when going this route. Also, be diligent about requesting refunds when they send you junk.
PPC is worth considering if your market isn’t too competitive. If it is, I don’t think $1,000 to $2,000 will be enough to get real traction.
Outsourcing cold calling is another option, but you’ll have to sift through a lot of junk. We used PBS out of Egypt for a while and had decent results. If you go this route, $2,000 is enough to get started, but you’ll need to give them consistent feedback on lead quality. They guarantee two leads per day per caller, but “lead” is a loose term in this game.
As for texting, I know plenty of people are still doing it, but I wouldn’t. I’ve never been a fan—it flies way too close to the sun for me. I’ll let someone else weigh in on that one.
Hope this helps.
- 1yStephen MoralesBusiness MemberJacksonville, FL · Member since 2025 · 402 posts · 205 votes
Hi Gregory,
Speaking from personal experience, cold calling remains the most cost-effective way to generate deals IMO.With SMS, you risk fines of $500-$1,500 per occurrence because it's illegal to text without opt-in. Mailers take 2-3 months and require a $2K-$3K+ monthly budget before results really start rolling in. With PPL, you’re at the lead providers mercy to issue refunds for duplicates or cold leads that never should have been sent in the first place and they cost a few hundred bucks a pop. And with PPC, you’re competing against companies spending $50K-$75K per month on ads.
You can also go the organic SEO route, but that takes time to build up and you'll probably end up paying someone to do that for you anyways.
At the end of the day, cold calling is tried and true. Pulling a targeted list of 10,000+ records per month and hiring VAs to make calls is a proven way to land deals or listings consistently. You're working the numbers without breaking the bank. There people that buy a triple line dialer get a 10k list and get 1-2 deals per month for $600 bucks or $2k with a VA.
It costs a fraction of what other methods do—and I’d argue it’s just as fast, if not faster, in producing results.
Best of luck! - 1yDon KonipolBusiness MemberInvestor · The Woodlands TX / Avon, CT · Member since 2009 · 6k+ posts · 10k+ votes
Quote from @Gregory Schwartz:
I’m an investor agent in Bryan-College Station Texas, and I want to start sourcing off-market deals to provide exclusive opportunities for my top investor clients. Sellers would have three options: sell to my clients, sell to me, or list on the market. I’m NOT planning to wholesale—just creating more deal flow for my agent business.
Back in 2020, I sent 500 postcards/month via DealMachine for about a year and a half this resulted in 2 off-market deals that I purchased. Now, with a $1,000–$2,000/month budget, I want to restart but am open to different marketing strategies.
- What’s working best for you at this budget?
- Should I stick with mailers or explore cold calling, PPC, SMS, etc.?
- What lists have been most effective for motivated sellers?
- Any lessons learned from your experience?
I’d love to hear your insights—thanks in advance!
While @Jerryll Noorden is usually more than a little obnoxious, a lot of what he says is true. And while I disagree with him that SEO is the ONLY way to go, we’ve found that the two best bang for the bucks marketing is SEO and email to targeted audience. Social media engagement is running a somewhat distant third.
- Rental Property Investor · College Station, TX · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes1y
@Don Konipol thanks for the insight. I understand the importance of SEO. SEO is a very broad topic. What have you done to drive the most traffic to your site? For example, would you start with a blog or pay to rank on Google?
Schwartz Realty Group5118 Reviews - Investor · Get yourself trained before doing something inadvisable. · Member since 2024 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes1y"is usually more than a little obnoxious" Hilarious. He's as funny as a rocket scientist. ;-)
Quote from @Don Konipol:
Quote from @Gregory Schwartz:
I’m an investor agent in Bryan-College Station Texas, and I want to start sourcing off-market deals to provide exclusive opportunities for my top investor clients. Sellers would have three options: sell to my clients, sell to me, or list on the market. I’m NOT planning to wholesale—just creating more deal flow for my agent business.
Back in 2020, I sent 500 postcards/month via DealMachine for about a year and a half this resulted in 2 off-market deals that I purchased. Now, with a $1,000–$2,000/month budget, I want to restart but am open to different marketing strategies.
- What’s working best for you at this budget?
- Should I stick with mailers or explore cold calling, PPC, SMS, etc.?
- What lists have been most effective for motivated sellers?
- Any lessons learned from your experience?
I’d love to hear your insights—thanks in advance!
While @Jerryll Noorden is usually more than a little obnoxious, a lot of what he says is true. And while I disagree with him that SEO is the ONLY way to go, we’ve found that the two best bang for the bucks marketing is SEO and email to targeted audience. Social media engagement is running a somewhat distant third.
- Rental Property Investor · College Station, TX · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes1y
@David Lecko thanks. What I've learned growing my REA business is that tracking metrics is the only way to truly scale. You can bet that whatever method we choose we will be tracking conversion rates and running A/B test.
Schwartz Realty Group5118 Reviews - Specialist · United Kingdom · Member since 2024 · 53 posts · 7 votes1y
- @gregschwartz
What lists have been most effective for motivated sellers?
I’d love to hear your insights—thanks in advance!
All the classic situations which motivate people to sell - preforeclosure, foreclosure probate, liens, divorce etc but make sure from whoever you buy them from that they tell you where and when they got them and how many times they have been sold. If they are unwilling to say that would be a concern for me.
Also avoid the prominent platforms if you want newer lists and you want to access every opportunity in your market because the leads they provide are a fraction of the leads available, are at least 2 weeks old and are jumped on by everyone who wants them every time the platform updates there lead types/markets. Read my studies for more info below and feel free to ask questions.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Links to the studies I done to prove PS data is behind by 2wks and only 1/3 what is provided by county records within 170 counties across TX, CA, FL.
Please download to get full functionality in Excel. If you open it in new tab it is a lot harder to navigate.
Any issues with links please contact me
PS Preforeclosure Leads Data Is Only a Third of What Is Available from County Records
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1vmGk8l_YIcUk5awBIu_D_sp5ifT...
PS Preforeclosure Leads Behind County Data Deep Dive Sept 2024
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1RNXH3mBgJLq-uJRHJ6nH9OPVZFg... - @gregschwartz
- 1yTrevor MauchPro MemberInvestor · Roseburg, OR · Member since 2014 · 141 posts · 149 votes
I love your question man (the one you kicked the thread off with).
I'll give you some direct thoughts/answers that are hopefully useful in dialing in a plan. And I'll walk through how I think about dialing in a lead gen plan in a market.
For that budget, $1k-$2k/mo... there will be some give and take. It'll either be you'll need to roll up the sleeves and do more of the grunt work to keep cost down... or you'll need to expect a deal every 3-6+ months.
Let me give as direct answers to your 4 questions as possible then I'll dive deeper. I'm going to assume the higher range of your budget ($2k/mo) for the sake of my answers below.
1. What’s working best for you at this budget?
For me, it's all about the math. The answer is in the math. Pick a channel, commit to it for long-term, then let the math work in your favor.
PPC you'll want to expect $3k-$5k budget before you should expect a deal. Could be sooner, could be longer, but that's the range. It works in your market as well. But w/ that budget it may turn into... that's a possibility of 3-6 deals a year from that channel.
Tips: w/ PPC the prospects are often more motivated at that point as they're actively looking for a solution, so they tend to hit multiple websites, so w/ SEO and PPC leads answering them live and/or calling back within 1-5 mins increases your close ratio dramatically. So you'll have to be ready to answer live and/or have amazing followup in place to squeeze out the best results possible. If you're going to hire out the Google PPC management... that'll be min $800/mo for anyone who knows this market well and is any good... so that leads $1200/mo for ad costs... at prob $150-$350 per lead... that's 3-6 leads a month... at 1 in 15 Google PPC leads close into a deal... that's a deal about every 3-5 months on average.
Mailers would be similar type math... response rates on direct mail has gone down in the past 5 years, but it still works to pull out great deals. I can't say for sure in your market with the right list how many pieces you'll need to send, but our clients are reporting it being normal to have 5,000 pieces to close a deal. If a piece with postage is around $1 (plus or minus depending on the type) that's an estimate of a deal about every 3-5 months (rough math).
Other methods though like Cold Calling could possibly be lower cost, but you're generating a lot of unqualified sellers and leads... so the game then is to be really good at creating / stacking lists, managing the VA cold calling service to hit their connected call and qualified lead #'s, and getting really solid followup systems in place. It works, it's just a different type of marketing vs. people coming to you. Not my preference but some of our top clients still do really really well cold calling.
2. Should I stick with mailers or explore cold calling, PPC, SMS, etc.?
I'd avoid SMS for sure, especially as an agent with more regulation oversight. SMS is getting pretty sticky these days. Still work? Yes. Sustainable and put you in legal risk? Yes very possibly. My rule of thumb is always... to "Scale the bright spots".
I always look at what has worked for me in the past (because that has less risk since it's a known thing to me), and I ask... "Can I scale this? Does it have room to grow?". So I'd start and scale what worked for you in the past UNLESS you hated the type of leads you got and/or it created pains in your business you don't want back.
The challenge w/ scaling driving for dollars is it requires time... you or you'll need to hire someone (uber drivers, delivery drivers, etc) to drive for you and incentivize them to add properties to DM for you. It can work great, it just takes time so the leverage is low for you unless you get help w/ the driving part. I know DM has great list building features now that they didn't have in '20, so that's a way to pull data on properties/sellers that may have more likelihood in selling soon... and cold calling or sending mail to them. PPC I answered above. YES it'll work great in your market. The challenge is budget especially if you're going to hire the PPC management out (which I'd highly suggest). We can help guide you here if you need any help. Happy to be a resource.
3. What lists have been most effective for motivated sellers?
I texted some of my top investor/agents who are doing direct mail who are closing deals every month from it... there are so many data points... but they all said "probate and tire landlords" are among their top type of prospect they target.
4. Any lessons learned from your experience?
Oh, boy! Tons. But like Jerryll mentioned, it's more of a mindset thing vs. a tactical thing. Tactics and marketing channels change over time... but the marketing strategy and mindset really don't.
At a high level... after working w/ literally thousands of real estate investors and agents generating millions of motivated house seller leads the past 10+ years at Carrot (and 4+ years prior)... for marketing... the one who is able to pay the most for the lead will have the advantage.
I've been working directly w/ execs in the biggest brokerages in the US the past few years... and they all say "We want our agents to get these good seller leads you guys get!".The challenge is... it is very difficult to make motivated seller marketing work well on real estate agent commissions.
Motivated house seller marketing works well when you can what the marketing world calls... "liquidate" the advertising cost quickly... ideally within 60 days max. Meaning... if I put $3k in advertising cost in for March... I need to at minimum get all of that $3k back within 60 days from a deal closing... and within 6 months that $3k needs to turn into a min of 4x that ($12k in revenue) or the numbers don't work out very well. Most agents run on the model of listing a property, which can take 2-6 months to sell and receive the commission... then I see most agents turning that paid marketing channel off 4-6 months in because they're in $8k deep with no revenue to show for it yet... so they say "This isn't sustainable... I need to kill this".
For agents to truly thrive doing motivated seller marketing I feel it's 1 of 2 mindsets (and I personally would only consider 1 of these mindsets one I'd choose):
1. "I'll set a monthly emotion based budget and over this next year, hope it turns into profits from listings. I'll put $2k/mo into this and see what it does".
2. "I'll market based on math... and I'll be a hybrid agent/investor... making cash offers on properties... 80% will be retail listing prospects... 20% max will be open to a discount cash offer. Those ones I'll "wholesale" to my investor buyers so it's a win-win".
A standard 2-6% agent commission on deals is really really difficult to make direct to seller marketing work as it's the big deals that make it all work. The agent commissions pay for the marketing to happen.
I'd be happy to explain more deeply below how I would set a budget for a campaign...
... but at a high level I'll ask...
1. How much money do I want to earn this year?2. What is my average profit per deal?
3. How many deals do I need to do then to hit that revenue goal?
4. How many leads do I need to bring in to get a deal through the marketing channel I'm using?
- SEO - 1 in 5-15 leads into a deal
- PPC - 1 in 10-20 leads into a deal
- FB ads - 1 in 20-30 leads into a deal
- Direct Mail - 1 in 40-60 "leads" into a deal
- Cold Calling - 1 in 50-70 leads into a deal5. How do I spin up a solid marketing plan w/ that channel to bring in that number of leads?
6. Am I going to do that work myself or hire it out?
Happy to map it out further in a post below! Short answer, is any of those channels will work, all will likely be somewhere between $3k-$5k per deal for a paid channel OR some real time for a channel like cold calling or SEO if you're doing the work yourself.
So it all starts with your goal... how much revenue and/or deals do you want to do in '25 with your direct to seller marketing? Then we can work it backwards and pick the best channel.
Happy to help ya make a plan man! Can hop on a call anytime. You don't need to be a client of mine. It's fun for me. - Rental Property Investor · College Station, TX · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes1y
@Trevor Mauch So much to unpack. I love the thoroughness of your response! It's probably better suited for a DM or call, but I plan to keep some, retail a lot and generally avoid wholesaling until I can wrap my head around the legal risk with wholesaling as a real estate agent in Texas. but that's another question for another post :)
Schwartz Realty Group5118 Reviews- 1yTrevor MauchPro MemberInvestor · Roseburg, OR · Member since 2014 · 141 posts · 149 votes
@Gregory Schwartz ya reach out via DM and happy to add value any way I can! 👊
on being an agent wholesaling in TX, I don't know the specifics of the law in TX, but I know lots of agent investors in TX serving their sellers well who do lots of wholesaling. Biggie is just being transparent, always helping the client see the retail / on mls value of the property and guiding them towards listing... but having / offering a discount cash offer as a solution when they want speed and convenience.
- Real Estate Consultant · MO · Member since 2025 · 23 posts · 7 votes1y
As others mentioned already the best strategy to go for now wouldn't be the same in couple months due to the changes the market is facing on daily basis, and the changes you would go through yourself. From my experience working with lot of investors and realtors alike couple ways work with some and not with the others. But for that budget as a suggestion I would highly recommend starting with outsourcing your lead generation to a VAs company that would provide you with solid and transparent feedback at every step of the route so you can make the necessary adjustments when needed.
As for the list it totally depends on your exist strategy and buying box however there are some metrics you can't go wrong with like tired landlords or shutoff lists but make sure to use a reputable source of data since it's the most tricky part here.
Yes cold calling still works and yield amazing results if used correctly. Saying that outta 5 years experience working with a team of 60+ callers.
What requires your attention to not get bamboozled is the follow up with however handling your lead generation be it cold calling, PPC or whatever way you go for.- Specialist · United Kingdom · Member since 2024 · 53 posts · 7 votes1y
Quote from @Ian Kiefer:
As others mentioned already the best strategy to go for now wouldn't be the same in couple months due to the changes the market is facing on daily basis, and the changes you would go through yourself. From my experience working with lot of investors and realtors alike couple ways work with some and not with the others. But for that budget as a suggestion I would highly recommend starting with outsourcing your lead generation to a VAs company that would provide you with solid and transparent feedback at every step of the route so you can make the necessary adjustments when needed.
As for the list it totally depends on your exist strategy and buying box however there are some metrics you can't go wrong with like tired landlords or shutoff lists but make sure to use a reputable source of data since it's the most tricky part here.
Yes cold calling still works and yield amazing results if used correctly. Saying that outta 5 years experience working with a team of 60+ callers.
What requires your attention to not get bamboozled is the follow up with however handling your lead generation be it cold calling, PPC or whatever way you go for.Woud you say appointment and closing deals is significantly inceased the sooner you gt to the lead and make offers i.e being near the front of the queue to contact the leads? Thanks
- Real Estate Consultant · MO · Member since 2025 · 23 posts · 7 votes1y
Quote from @Kieron Osullivan:
Quote from @Ian Kiefer:
As others mentioned already the best strategy to go for now wouldn't be the same in couple months due to the changes the market is facing on daily basis, and the changes you would go through yourself. From my experience working with lot of investors and realtors alike couple ways work with some and not with the others. But for that budget as a suggestion I would highly recommend starting with outsourcing your lead generation to a VAs company that would provide you with solid and transparent feedback at every step of the route so you can make the necessary adjustments when needed.
As for the list it totally depends on your exist strategy and buying box however there are some metrics you can't go wrong with like tired landlords or shutoff lists but make sure to use a reputable source of data since it's the most tricky part here.
Yes cold calling still works and yield amazing results if used correctly. Saying that outta 5 years experience working with a team of 60+ callers.
What requires your attention to not get bamboozled is the follow up with however handling your lead generation be it cold calling, PPC or whatever way you go for.Woud you say appointment and closing deals is significantly inceased the sooner you gt to the lead and make offers i.e being near the front of the queue to contact the leads? Thanks
I would go as far as saying it's mandatory to call the lead as soon as you get the owner hooked by the VAs either with a direct transfer which can be easily done on auto dialers or within 30-45 mins max. From my experience I found that 2 things kill any deal 1st being time,. delaying the call from the acquisition or the closer. That's why I make sure any lead is pushed to my clients no later than 10 mins from when the VAs get it and always encourage the client themselves to call the leads once it hits their CRM.
- Specialist · United Kingdom · Member since 2024 · 53 posts · 7 votes1y
Quote from @Ian Kiefer:
Quote from @Kieron Osullivan:
Quote from @Ian Kiefer:
As others mentioned already the best strategy to go for now wouldn't be the same in couple months due to the changes the market is facing on daily basis, and the changes you would go through yourself. From my experience working with lot of investors and realtors alike couple ways work with some and not with the others. But for that budget as a suggestion I would highly recommend starting with outsourcing your lead generation to a VAs company that would provide you with solid and transparent feedback at every step of the route so you can make the necessary adjustments when needed.
As for the list it totally depends on your exist strategy and buying box however there are some metrics you can't go wrong with like tired landlords or shutoff lists but make sure to use a reputable source of data since it's the most tricky part here.
Yes cold calling still works and yield amazing results if used correctly. Saying that outta 5 years experience working with a team of 60+ callers.
What requires your attention to not get bamboozled is the follow up with however handling your lead generation be it cold calling, PPC or whatever way you go for.Woud you say appointment and closing deals is significantly inceased the sooner you gt to the lead and make offers i.e being near the front of the queue to contact the leads? Thanks
I would go as far as saying it's mandatory to call the lead as soon as you get the owner hooked by the VAs either with a direct transfer which can be easily done on auto dialers or within 30-45 mins max. From my experience I found that 2 things kill any deal 1st being time,. delaying the call from the acquisition or the closer. That's why I make sure any lead is pushed to my clients no later than 10 mins from when the VAs get it and always encourage the client themselves to call the leads once it hits their CRM.
Thanks for insightful response although i didnt clarify what i meant. What i meant to ask was is appointment and closing deals increased when using lists which have been pulled closer to when they first become available from county records/notices/court records?
I ask becuse you position managing teams of VAs cold calling motivated sellers allpws for you to see and comapre the value of the lists you use very quickly. Thanks
- Rental Property Investor · College Station, TX · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes1y
so many great points.... seems that this is going to be a major undertaking. As such, Im also interested in partnering with those of you that have expertise finding off market deals.
Does anyone currently run successful direct-to-seller marketing campaigns in Bryan or College Station, Texas?
Schwartz Realty Group5118 Reviews - 1yDavid SchmiedicheBusiness MemberReal Estate Agent · College Station, TX · Member since 2020 · 124 posts · 68 votes
I know I'm late to the post, although here is my advice from doing direct mail in this market for the past 5 years.
What’s working best for you at this budget?
-Letters directly to the owner of the property have had the highest return for us. We tried post cards to save money and it didn't return anything.
Should I stick with mailers or explore cold calling, PPC, SMS, etc.?
- Mailers work really well for us. Cold calling, PPC, and SMS haven't worked for us in the past
What lists have been most effective for motivated sellers?
- Out of town investors. It doesn't necessarily focus on finding motivated sellers, although we have had the highest response rate with that list, meaning a higher likelihood a motivated seller would call us. Also, even if they aren't a "Motivated" seller, you can talk to them about listing to get a commission on the sale.
Any lessons learned from your experience?
- Stay away from post cards, and EDDM. They are of interest because they are cheaper, although the return is significantly lower. Pay more to send out letters, even if it is to a smaller list.
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