Advice on NYC rental markets in Queens, Brooklyn, Long Island

[Jon Pflueger]

I am a student in NYC, and have been working towards starting a wholesale company in the city, mainly focusing on servicing residential properties in Queens, BK, and LI. I was wondering if there were any seasoned NY wholesalers who have advice on where to find the most accurate and up to date market data, as well as successful strats to find 'motivated' sellers. I was also considering broadening my search to North Jersey, but I am unsure if I will need to change my contracts and tailor them to each set of state laws. Any advise is appreciated.

-Jon

[Mohammed Rahman]

Hey @Jon Pflueger - this is the $1B question most new wholesalers also fumble with. 

There's tons of resources out there, and the annoying thing is that almost each one works to a certain degree. 

Your hit rate with wholesaling will be very low, but that's the nature of the beast. Unless you've spent years building relationships with owners, vendors, etc. in which case deals will start to flow to you because folks know you can execute. 

Some tools myself and others have used: 

- Skip tracing

- Mailers

- Data aggregators like PropStream, PropertyShark, etc. 

[Jon Pflueger]

Thank you Mohammed, I appreciate your responses

[Jerryll Noorden]

If you need to do Skip Tracing, mailers, and "Propstream", you don't understand the concept of motivated sellers, and that is why so many of you struggle.

If you do not understand the concept of motivated sellers, how do you expect to be successful in finding them.

I recommend you read my post here:

https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/93/topics/1215116-all-i...

[Jonathan Greene]

Did you grow up in NYC or one of the boroughs? If not, you have no chance at wholesaling in those areas under any circumstances. NYC and the Bronx and Queens and Brooklyn are generally impossible wholesale areas anyway, but if you add in that you are an out-of-town student alleging to buy people's houses, NYers will eat you alive. Do not do it. And don't think North Jersey will work. It's oversaturated with crappy wholesalers who don't know ARV and can't estimate repairs costs.

[Jerryll Noorden]

Quote from @Jonathan Greene:

Did you grow up in NYC or one of the boroughs? If not, you have no chance at wholesaling in those areas under any circumstances. NYC and the Bronx and Queens and Brooklyn are generally impossible wholesale areas anyway, but if you add in that you are an out-of-town student alleging to buy people's houses, NYers will eat you alive. Do not do it. And don't think North Jersey will work. It's oversaturated with crappy wholesalers who don't know ARV and can't estimate repairs costs.

 What makes him not having grown up in NYC not having a chance?

Don't quite understand what you mean.

Wholesaling has nothing to do with where you grew up.

Wholesaling (as well as any other business) is about lead generation.

I didn't grow up in NYC, and if I were to wholesale there I would dominate that market with my ability to rank websites #1, dominate online presence, credibility, and competence strategies I can apply to my online image.

I think this is why so many people are "afraid" of wholesaling.

Break wholesaling down into its most basic elements. All you need are leads, motivated seller leads. Once you do, you will find eager buyers, and that is "all" it takes.

Of course, I simplified it (a little), but that is basically the gist of it.

[Jonathan Greene]

Quote from @Jerryll Noorden:

Quote from @Jonathan Greene:

Did you grow up in NYC or one of the boroughs? If not, you have no chance at wholesaling in those areas under any circumstances. NYC and the Bronx and Queens and Brooklyn are generally impossible wholesale areas anyway, but if you add in that you are an out-of-town student alleging to buy people's houses, NYers will eat you alive. Do not do it. And don't think North Jersey will work. It's oversaturated with crappy wholesalers who don't know ARV and can't estimate repairs costs.

 What makes him not having grown up in NYC not having a chance?

Don't quite understand what you mean.

Wholesaling has nothing to do with where you grew up.

Wholesaling (as well as any other business) is about lead generation.

I didn't grow up in NYC, and if I were to wholesale there I would dominate that market with my ability to rank websites #1, dominate online presence, credibility, and competence strategies I can apply to my online image.

I think this is why so many people are "afraid" of wholesaling.

Break wholesaling down into its most basic elements. All you need are leads, motivated seller leads. Once you do, you will find eager buyers, and that is "all" it takes.

Of course, I simplified it (a little), but that is basically the gist of it.

You are wrong. Any New Yorker will tell you the same thing. No one in the Bronx or Queens is selling on wholesale to an out-of-town kid. You are trying to sell him a pipedream (and, as usual, your SEO services) on wholesaling, which does not exist in NYC and the boroughs.

Why don't you try to do it in NYC and see how it goes? Try it in DUMBO and see how that goes, please. You sound ridiculous. Call someone who grew up in the boroughs and ask them if they would ever sell their house, on assignment, to a 22-year-old from out of the area.

[Jerryll Noorden]

Quote from @Jonathan Greene:

Quote from @Jerryll Noorden:

Quote from @Jonathan Greene:

.

Why don't you try to do it in NYC and see how it goes? Try it in DUMBO and see how that goes, please. You sound ridiculous. Call someone who grew up in the boroughs and ask them if they would ever sell their house, on assignment, to a 22-year-old from out of the area.

FIRST: No one is attacking you. This is a forum, and people are entitled to have different opinions. You seem overly aggressive here.

SECOND: You might want to tone down the aggression a bit. Calling respected contributors with significant experience in wholesaling “ridiculous” doesn’t add to the discussion. I genuinely asked why you think not being born in the market you invest in would have any impact on success.

THIRD: I didn’t realize your advice not to pursue it was because of his age. That’s why I asked—it seemed unusual to discourage him from NYC investment without further explanation.

FOURTH: Now that I understand your perspective, I still respectfully disagree. Why? Because I have a 22-year-old student in NYC who’s succeeding at this.

And I have another student who made a $700K assignment fee in Beverly Hills, California.

Can you imagine if Myles, came to you for advise BEFORE he came to me? That would have cost him $700K. Never EVER do this again!

Mr. Green, we’ve had this conversation before. You’ve accused me of selling a “pipe dream,” but it seems like you’re projecting your own limitations onto others. Just because something may be difficult for you doesn’t mean it’s impossible for someone else.

All we can do is share our experiences and insights. You told him not to pursue this, but you didn’t provide a solid reason why. It’s more helpful to offer information rather than discourage someone from exploring their own path.

FIFTH: I appreciate that you want to look out for others, but encouraging education rather than discouragement is more constructive. Sharing the potential challenges he might face, rather than discouraging him, allows him to assess whether he’s ready to tackle them, increasing his chance of success.

We’re all here to help each other grow, right?

Sixth: It seems you may not realize that I’m a recognized expert in credibility and conversion strategies. I teach how to establish credibility through my concept, The 3 Pillars of Conversion, which I’ve developed to help clients succeed regardless of location or age—as long as they target the right audience.

Lastly: You’ve accused me of “selling SEO.” But where? How? All I’m doing is educating and sharing my methods, for free. Sharing how I get free leads and explaining the process openly is about teaching, not selling.

[Jonathan Greene]

Quote from @Jerryll Noorden:

Quote from @Jonathan Greene:

Quote from @Jerryll Noorden:

Quote from @Jonathan Greene:

.

Why don't you try to do it in NYC and see how it goes? Try it in DUMBO and see how that goes, please. You sound ridiculous. Call someone who grew up in the boroughs and ask them if they would ever sell their house, on assignment, to a 22-year-old from out of the area.

First, Noone is attacking you. You seem overly aggressive here. People can have a difference in opinion. It is a forum!

you should mind your aggression a bit calling heavy contributors in this forum with far more success, authority and experience in wholesaling "rediculous". Especially as a mod. No one was attacking you. I genuinely asked why you think not being born in the market you invest has any bearing to being successful.

Secondly, "Try it yourself"

 Don't need to.

I have a 22 year old student in NYC that is doing it and is successful at it.

I had this talk with you before. You accuse me of selling a pipedream, you project your inabilities onto others 

Not because it is hard or impossible for you does it mean that it is impossible for others too..

Now, I appreciate you looking out for others  but don't you think it is more constructive to educate rather than demotivate?

instead of "threatening" him to not do it, make him aware of the challenges ahead and why, so he has an opportunity to see and decide if he has what it takes to overcome them. 

That way he has a better chance of succeeding.

We are all here to help eachother grow right?

whay you fail to understand is that I am currently the nation's expert in credibility and Conversion strategies. I teach how to be credible through a concept I have developed called the 3 Pillars Of Conversion.

These 3 pillars guarantees conversion no matter where you are or how old you are as long as you apply these pillars and you are dealing with the right audience.0

You do this same thing every time. You can do your business your way which has predominantly been telling everyone (through a lot of good posts, but also a lot of cut and paste posts) to do it the way you do it, which does work for some, but also does not work for many others because they don't put the work in.

The reason I have always thought you were selling is because you always are. You know the rules and you sell inside of them, no problem. It's not like I am reporting your posts. My main issues with you and your shtick is how you present it.

You GUARANTEE things. You call yourself an EXPERT. If you are as well-versed in business as you should be, you know those are sales techniques that help create more trust in advance of purchase. The forums are for quick response and real information.

The OP is asking if he can just go into NYC and start wholesaling. I am from Brooklyn. No NYer is selling to an out-of-town rookie. NONE. The OP does not have a system or experience. When you drop into the forum, your goal is to get them to contact you and use your system because you can't honestly be saying that a new wholesaler can go into the Bronx and just start locking up properties and finding buyers. I know you aren't saying that. You are saying that he could (like your student that you shouted out, another sales technique by the way) if he did what you did.

End of story, Jerry. I don't have a problem with you, but let's stop with the smoke and mirrors. If you run a solid business, I am all for it, but as a businessperson if you come into a forum telling someone who is not from NY to go wholesale in Queens and guarantee their success (when they have no experience), that would be an unwise and preposterous business strategy.

All of your posts are sales techniques to drive business to you and you dial it back by making it like I was being mean to you. I've been watching you do this for ten years. "We are all here to help each other grow" is a catchline you use to sell to more people.

[Jerryll Noorden]

Quote from @Jonathan Greene:

All of your posts are sales techniques to drive business to you and you dial it back by making it like I was being mean to you. I've been watching you do this for ten years. "We are all here to help each other grow" is a catchline you use to sell to more people.

I’m not going to get into a back-and-forth here. Everything I mentioned above is accurate and based on real results, not just opinions. I didn’t respond to your negative post to win an argument—I replied to encourage him and others not to give up on a dream just because one person may feel it’s not achievable.

Listen, have you ever considered that maybe you and even a few others may be wrong? The reason I do what I do showing proof is because it inspires others making them realize the dream is within reach. I try to inspire.

I get a TON of these personal messages:

Frankly, the way you’ve turned his question and plea for help into a personal attack with accusations about me “selling services” is beyond me.

:) Wishing you a wonderful Sunday, Mr. Green!

[Jonathan Greene]

Quote from @Jerryll Noorden:

Quote from @Jonathan Greene:

All of your posts are sales techniques to drive business to you and you dial it back by making it like I was being mean to you. I've been watching you do this for ten years. "We are all here to help each other grow" is a catchline you use to sell to more people.

I’m not going to get into a back-and-forth here. Everything I mentioned above is accurate and based on real results, not just opinions. I didn’t respond to your negative post to win an argument—I replied to encourage him and others not to give up on a dream just because one person may feel it’s not achievable.

Listen, have you ever considered that maybe you and even a few others may be wrong? The reason I do what I do showing proof is because it inspires others making them realize the dream is within reach. I try to inspire.

I get a TON of these personal messages:

Frankly, the way you’ve turned his question and plea for help into a personal attack with accusations about me “selling services” is beyond me.

:) Wishing you a wonderful Sunday, Mr. Green!

This is the same thing on repeat you do. You somehow victimize yourself because someone said the word ridiculous. If you are so fragile that someone calling what you said ridiculous causes you to go into multiple long posts, I think you need to look at that. No one attacked you. No one even said anything rude. You use it to try to add a screenshot. This is what you have been doing for ten years.

You may have clients and students with results. I don't know how good or bad your business is, but no one has ever told me anything bad about you. You just aren't my cup of tea. You like to tell everyone that they can do anything (and P.S. check out the results of my students) and I tell everyone the truth. Wholesaling will not work for everyone, especially not someone new trying to do it in arguably one of the two hardest wholesale markets in the country due to price, experience, and owner savvy (NYC and LA).

Posts aren't negative if they don't agree with you. Not everyone wants to be told they are great and get participation trophies just for trying. The everyone can do it philosophy has laid hundreds of thousands of carcasses on the trail of real estate investing along the way.

[Jerryll Noorden]

Quote from @Jonathan Greene:

Quote from @Jerryll Noorden:

Quote from @Jonathan Greene:

All of your posts are sales techniques to drive business to you and you dial it back by making it like I was being mean to you. I've been watching you do this for ten years. "We are all here to help each other grow" is a catchline you use to sell to more people.

I’m not going to get into a back-and-forth here. Everything I mentioned above is accurate and based on real results, not just opinions. I didn’t respond to your negative post to win an argument—I replied to encourage him and others not to give up on a dream just because one person may feel it’s not achievable.

Listen, have you ever considered that maybe you and even a few others may be wrong? The reason I do what I do showing proof is because it inspires others making them realize the dream is within reach. I try to inspire.

I get a TON of these personal messages:

Frankly, the way you’ve turned his question and plea for help into a personal attack with accusations about me “selling services” is beyond me.

:) Wishing you a wonderful Sunday, Mr. Green!

This is the same thing on repeat you do. You somehow victimize yourself because someone said the word ridiculous. If you are so fragile that someone calling what you said ridiculous causes you to go into multiple long posts, I think you need to look at that. No one attacked you. No one even said anything rude. You use it to try to add a screenshot. This is what you have been doing for ten years.

You may have clients and students with results. I don't know how good or bad your business is, but no one has ever told me anything bad about you. You just aren't my cup of tea. You like to tell everyone that they can do anything (and P.S. check out the results of my students) and I tell everyone the truth. Wholesaling will not work for everyone, especially not someone new trying to do it in arguably one of the two hardest wholesale markets in the country due to price, experience, and owner savvy (NYC and LA).

Posts aren't negative if they don't agree with you. Not everyone wants to be told they are great and get participation trophies just for trying. The everyone can do it philosophy has laid hundreds of thousands of carcasses on the trail of real estate investing along the way.

Whenever you’re ready to drop this attitude and collaborate, just let me know. More than happy, to turn this into a positive relationship with you.

I’m here to help everyone—including you—achieve more success with motivated seller lead generation, wholesaling ethically, running a business, and any other areas where I can share my expertise.

So, I propose we put this bickering aside and focus on providing real value. It feels unprofessional and unproductive to turn someone else’s post into a back-and-forth. That’s not why we’re here. Let’s work together to offer genuine support and insights, rather than fueling unnecessary drama.

Agreed?

To @Jon Pflueger I apologize that your post turned into a crap-show. Let me know if you have any specific questions you have about my strategies and I'll do my best to turn your post back into a productive exchange helping you succeed.

[Jon Pflueger]

Honestly, I don't mind @Jerryll Noorden. I have never experienced an industry where 'leaders' have to argue so hard to prove their philosophy. Watching you two go back and fourth is more insightful on what to expect from possible colleagues and competition. @Jonathan Greene, I dm'd you on instagram with a friendly challenge. You seem extremely confident in your initial claims, take me up on it.

Either way, I do appreciate the honest feed back on my posts from both of you, I understand that NY is one of the hardest markets to succeed in, but I am a firm believer in the Stockdale Paradox (Jim Collins, Good to Great).

Best,

-Jon

[Jonathan Greene]

Quote from @Jon Pflueger:

Honestly, I don't mind @Jerryll Noorden. I have never experienced an industry where 'leaders' have to argue so hard to prove their philosophy. Watching you two go back and fourth is more insightful on what to expect from possible colleagues and competition. @Jonathan Greene, I dm'd you on instagram with a friendly challenge. You seem extremely confident in your initial claims, take me up on it.

Either way, I do appreciate the honest feed back on my posts from both of you, I understand that NY is one of the hardest markets to succeed in, but I am a firm believer in the Stockdale Paradox (Jim Collins, Good to Great).

Best,

-Jon

This wasn't a back and forth. I have nothing to sell you and no reason to tell you something won't work if it will. What would I have to gain from that? If one person has nothing to gain and one does and has a call-to-action, there is a sale in there. It doesn't mean it can't work, but one is incentivized and one is not.

Whatever the challenge is, it isn't for me. You are missing the point. It's not that I am confident about my claims, I am sure. People can wholesale in NY state, but NY City is not the same and the methods used to do it in other places will not work in NYC, Bronx, Brooklyn, or Queens. I grew up in Brooklyn and have been walking investment properties since I was 2 years old in New York with my dad. If you believe you can do it, you should, but it's not a contest about who is right. Everyone does it their own way, but not everyone has something to gain.

[Nicholas L.]

@Jon Pflueger

can you start with a house hack?  you could house hack your way to a portfolio just by using your housing payment if you're up for moving a lot.  it's a powerful way to get started.

[Jon Pflueger]

@Nicholas L., Id love to work up to being able to afford a property to house hack one day but it is not in the cards right now. Wholesaling is a way of me to learn real estate, with the idea that one day in the near future I will be able to make investments like that.

[James Wise]

Quote from @Jon Pflueger:

@Nicholas L., Id love to work up to being able to afford a property to house hack one day but it is not in the cards right now. Wholesaling is a way of me to learn real estate, with the idea that one day in the near future I will be able to make investments like that.

 What you are calling wholesaling as a business model, sucks. You've got legal issues plus a whole bunch of other stuff. It's not gonna be a good way to learn anything. If you wanna earn money brokering real estate, (which is all you are trying to do) go get a license and work for a broker. That's a tough gig too, but failure rate is only going to be like 88% vs the 99.9% failure rate of your current plan.

Or...

Save some coin and do a house hack. Or both.

[Jon Pflueger]

@James Wise Can you go a little more in depth. I understand the legal issues very well, but going more in depth on other problems you see with it would be greatly appreciated.