AI for lead generation...

[Joe Homs]

I have been inundated by companies offering the next best solution for lead generation.  AI sounds great, but I don't see a track record of success and every time I google the company the reviews are not great.  I want to know your thoughts and have you found any that are working?

[Matthew Morrow]

Ive noticed the same thing. In fact most of the new "sources" have the same feel of AI themselves lol. Have yet to find one thats reputable or worthwhile pursuing. Tried and true DealMachine and post cards or other highly customizable lists seem to be the best results for us lately 

[Chris Seveney]

@Joe Homs

Everyone wants to sell the hype as next big thing - but for lead gen it meant to see some track record with it

[Max Yuan]

@Joe Homs @Chris Seveney @Matthew Morrow, I'm the founder of GoliathData, a platform that uses AI for lead generation so I feel uniquely qualified to give my $0.02. - The benefit of AI comes down to the ability to automate proven processes.

For example, everyone is targeting the same probate / preforeclosure leads, so how do you get an advantage? You can have a tool that monitors the same data sources as you do today, but use the newest techniques in engineering to automatically extract names, addresses and cross reference that information with county databases before streaming that information to your CRM. Likely finishing the process before anyone else has the chance to even see the original data source, giving your the first mover advantage.

There is a lot of hype around AI and I have seen my fair share of BS. But AI powered tools is a mega-trend and those who use it to their advantage and knows its limitations will have a huge leg up on everyone else. End of the day, RE is a relationship game, the tools are just there to help you focus on building relationships more efficiently.

[Jerryll Noorden]

Quote from @Max Yuan:

@Joe Homs @Chris Seveney @Matthew Morrow, I'm the founder of GoliathData, a platform that uses AI for lead generation so I feel uniquely qualified to give my $0.02. - The benefit of AI comes down to the ability to automate proven processes.

For example, everyone is targeting the same probate / preforeclosure leads, so how do you get an advantage? You can have a tool that monitors the same data sources as you do today, but use the newest techniques in engineering to automatically extract names, addresses and cross reference that information with county databases before streaming that information to your CRM. Likely finishing the process before anyone else has the chance to even see the original data source, giving your the first mover advantage.

There is a lot of hype around AI and I have seen my fair share of BS. But AI powered tools is a mega-trend and those who use it to their advantage and knows its limitations will have a huge leg up on everyone else. End of the day, RE is a relationship game, the tools are just there to help you focus on building relationships more efficiently.

Dude I HATE to do this but...  I am a former NASA robotics scientist, so I too am uniquely qualified to answer any topic on technology, and data. Sorry, my dude, I have to oppose you (strongly). I will say upfront, that I am not your enemy. I too offer products so I know you must be passionate about yours, but this is something that has to be said.

There is an inherent flaw in this way of thinking no one seems to understand.

Why does everyone simply ignore the fact that you can not target motivated sellers? This is not an opinion, this is not arguable, and this is just DATA. This is a fact.  So, start from this fact, and then let's analyze why AI can't help you with lead generation, at least it can't help you improve the currently low efficiency of lead gen.

If you can't target them, it truly doesn't matter what advanced methods you use to try to target them right?

Imagine you have a fish in the ocean that doesn't eat. It doesn't even have a mouth.

So the entire world is using worms to try to bait it. But worms are so difficult to put on a hook, so here comes a clever dude who invents a machine that easily grabs a worm and hooks it within 1 tenth of a second.

That is great, BUT you CAN'T catch this fish with worms. So this machine for that purpose is useless no matter how cool or advanced.

Now this is exactly what is happening here.

YOU CAN NOT TAEGET MOTIVATED SELLERS no matter what gadget you use.

Now look at your data. Look at data period.

How many probate people do you need to reach out to to find one motivated seller in the mix? THOUSANDS. Isn't this data? Isn't this proof that people in probate, foreclosures, etc. etc are absolutely not motivated?

So here you explain that everyone is using lists, probate, and foreclosures (that aren't motivated sellers) and talk about how to differentiate yourself because everyone is using these lists. Isn't this the exact same thing as the fish example I just listed? You have a new way to reach these (non-motivated) people, but the fact is they remain not motivated people, no matter how much better your way is to contact these (non-motivated) people.

So you talk about data here. So let's talk about data.

3000 mailers to these lists to get one deal (if lucky). That is a 0.033% success rate. That means that 99.96% of the people you are targeting through lists, AI, however, are not motivated. So again,  the concept inherently doesn't work. It doesn't matter what you do to target the WRONG people. They are STILL the wrong people.

I just seriously do not understand why everyone just keeps ignoring this fact.

Why is it so hard to grasp? Seriously I just don't get it.

I will repeat. The people your AI is targeting are the wrong people. Not motivated sellers, so no AI will ever work. Again, if it did, everything else would be out of business by now, right?

But I am not putting just AI under the bus here.  This fact goes FAR beyond AI. NOTHING can target motivated sellers.

PROPSTREAM:

also a data app.

Why do you STILL have to send 3000 mailers calls or texts to prospects Propstream is giving you, to get ONE deal?

Yup. There is absolutely no difference between using Propstream and your standard list. Why are you all paying for a Propstream subscription when you have the exact same results without it, when it comes to finding motivated sellers?!

But people ignore this and see what they want to see. They WANT to believe propstream works because it would make success easier.  It is absolutely stupid retarded moronic.

People, wake up, and smell the data!

No software, no AI, no Propstream, no Batchleads, no NOTHING can target motivated sellers. NOTHING CAN.

The ONLY way to consistently get in touch with motivated sellers is for you to make it extremely easy for them to find you.

Why?

Because only THEY know they are motivated. Only motivated sellers know they are motivated. And per definition, when someone becomes motivated they will take it upon themselves to find a solution to their problem, which is the entire premise behind motivation. Eagerness to solve their problem. "MOTIVATED to solve their issues".

FACEBOOK:

Now, take Facebook.  Facebook has ALL the data. If there is ANY platform that would know who is motivated and who is not, it would be Facebook. Facebook knows anyone better than they know themselves. Facebook knows what you had for lunch in 2011 on the third Monday of June. Do you? No, but Facebook does. Facebook knows your troubles, your favorite food, and music, your crush, who your friends are, who you hang out with, and who you will hang out with. Facebook knows everything.

YET not even Facebook can predict who is motivated.  That is why you still have to pay a lot of money on Facebook ads because even Facebook which is a platform that knows everyone better than they know themselves, can find them!

Honestly, I wish it would, but it can't. I know this is not what you want to hear Sorry.... 

Now what AI CAN do however is automate this horribly poor inefficient method for lead generation. Your conversion rate will still be 0.033% but at least it is automated. But then again all this means is you have an automated way to lose money faster with a chance to get lucky and make some money.

But like Chris Seveny said.  It is a business. People will exploit and monetize new shiny objects to make money. People take advantage of all the hype behind AI and because AI does look INCREDIBLY impressive and no one understands what AI truly is, people think more about it than what it really is and everyone is obsessing over it, and thus there is an opportunity to make money by selling AI products. 

AI is great for many things but NOT lead generation.

[Max Yuan]

@Jerryll Noorden I've came across your very strong opinion multiples times. Realistically people have built successful businesses around lead generation just like people have built successful businesses around SEO, bill boards or driving for dollars.

Your focus is on inbound, probably fewer leads but clearly motivated. Others focus on outbound, a lot more (albeit) weaker leads with inferred motivation. That is how correlation works. There is nothing wrong with closing 1 deal every 3000 leads, there are tools meant to speed up that process. I know guy that go through 800 a day, and honestly closing a deal every 4 days doesn't sound bad to me.

[Jerryll Noorden]

Quote from @Max Yuan:

@Jerryll Noorden I've came across your very strong opinion multiples times. Realistically people have built successful businesses around lead generation just like people have built successful businesses around SEO, bill boards or driving for dollars.

Your focus is on inbound, probably fewer leads but clearly motivated. Others focus on outbound, a lot more (albeit) weaker leads with inferred motivation. That is how correlation works. There is nothing wrong with closing 1 deal every 3000 leads, there are tools meant to speed up that process. I know guy that go through 800 a day, and honestly closing a deal every 4 days doesn't sound bad to me.

Hey man, 

Like I said I am not your enemy. What you are saying was simply wrong, that's all.

If you are willing to listen I will explain why, and we can absolutely sit together and I can help in any way you like.

FIRST:

I don't give  "opinions". I give DATA!  Let's clear that up first.

Understand the difference. That is why my "opinions" come off "strong" because you can't beat or win an argument when an opinion is trying to beat data.

SECOND:

If you say there is nothing wrong with making 1 deal out of 3000 leads, there are several things wrong with that statement.

You are not getting 1 deal out of 3000 "leads". Those are not "leads", those are prospects. 

A lead is when someone took a step expressing interest TO YOU, doing business with you. That is not what is happening there. You all need to stop calling random people "leads". A lead is when someone filled in your form requesting an offer from you. That is a lead. 

A prospect is simply ANYONE who could possibly or possibly not be interested in what you have to offer. Understand that difference.

But I will assume you meant well, and you just slipped up and used the wrong words. It happens, all good. Just making sure.

THIRD:

Where is it written that for every 3000 calls, mailers or texts you WILL  get a deal?! Nowhere right? If this was a fact... if this was "data" everyone would send 3000 mailers to get one deal and everyone would be successful. But that is not so. And that is the problem. And that is why these "systems" are so bad.

See in the world of data, science and engineering, 1+1 is always 2.  Equations, matter, Math matters reliability matters accurate system performance matters. Even a bad-performing system  with a 0.033 conversion rate is AMAZING if it truly was predictable. If you could sell a system that for EVERY 3000 calls you WILL make a deal, you woudl be a gazillionaire.  But, agian, that is the issue. It is not at all reliable.

FOURTH:

NEVER come to me with "I know a guy, that knows a guy that has a pet fish that has the same color of a girl's hair a complete stranger knows whose neighbor does 800 calls a day and gets a deal every week.

Here is why. Come with DATA, not with claims that in no way shape or form can be verified.  And that is not even the issue. Honestly, I believe you. I am SURE people make deals.. but here is my issue with that kind of talk:

If we were debating the possibility of making a deal doing that, then yes, your claim would be fair game. Yes, it is indeed possible to get A deal. To prove this, you only have to show me one occurrence and you have proven it is possible. 

Naming one occurrence for something to happen only proves it i POSSIBLE, and yes we all know it is possible.

But no one is debating that.

Now 800 prospects a day closing 1 every 4 days:

1) I don't believe that. Possible to close a deal here and there? Sure, absolutely. But like clock work, every 800 prospects a day for 4 days gets you 1 deal consistently. No. Anyone with experience in this field would raise an eyebrow to that.

2) 800 * 4 is 3200 prospects for one deal.  Seriously who has the energy to go through 800 prospects a day?

Come now. Work smarter, not harder.

And BTW, this is not about "my system, SEO, vs your system "AI". I have not brought SEO in the mix. This ONLY about the claims you made. Leave SEO out of it because if you challenge me (which you did) I will be forced to prove you wrong on that end to, which I now have to do because you again made a claim that is not accurate (you saying that inbound gets you fewer leads)

:
My inbound leads do NOT give me "fewer leads". 

For one, I actually get leads (not prospects), and plenty of them.

These are LEADS, as in people took the initiative to reach out to me to do business with, not prospects that your AI, prop stream, batch leads cold calling, driving for dollars, door knocking provides.

You are not improving the performance of lead generation with AI. You don't get more or better leads. You are just automating an already bad system that performs poorly. You are still getting the same poor results, but only faster and with less work.

Again, I am not your enemy, but my dude, Not sure how to say it so it doesn't rub the wrong way. What you are saying is just not correct...

BUT, power to you, you created an AI product, which is indeed impressive and I am sure it has other uses other than just lead gen. Keep perfecting it. Seriously!

Now, how can I/we help to make AI actually work better so everyone can benefit from AI and lead gen? Let's work together.

[Max Yuan]

@Jerryll Noorden we are fundamentally addressing different types of the sales motion with different supporting infrastructure/technology. We can absolutely agree to disagree on certain aspects of the business because end of the day, there are many ways to create value and help others achieve there goals.

I actually create a post in the technology section called AI in Real Estate - What's Hype? What's Real. Definitely take a look. But the TLDR is that AI is a tool, not a miracle worker. If a task can't be done manually, AI likely won't solve it either. AI's strength lies in automating defined, albeit tedious, processes.

If you don't believe in lead generation, no amount of AI will help make it better. But if you have a existing process involving VAs and scrapers that works for you, the process can suddenly become a lot easier and cheaper. Just like for building page ranking, instead of writing articles from scratch, all of a sudden you can create content a lot faster.

Innovations in AI is not just happening in RE, it is in every other vertical marketing, sales and I'm glad you also recognize the value. Definitely open to hearing your thoughts on how you think AI tools can be used to super charge your process.

[Leonard McIntosh]

Quote from @Jerryll Noorden:

Quote from @Max Yuan:

@Joe Homs @Chris Seveney @Matthew Morrow, I'm the founder of GoliathData, a platform that uses AI for lead generation so I feel uniquely qualified to give my $0.02. - The benefit of AI comes down to the ability to automate proven processes.

For example, everyone is targeting the same probate / preforeclosure leads, so how do you get an advantage? You can have a tool that monitors the same data sources as you do today, but use the newest techniques in engineering to automatically extract names, addresses and cross reference that information with county databases before streaming that information to your CRM. Likely finishing the process before anyone else has the chance to even see the original data source, giving your the first mover advantage.

There is a lot of hype around AI and I have seen my fair share of BS. But AI powered tools is a mega-trend and those who use it to their advantage and knows its limitations will have a huge leg up on everyone else. End of the day, RE is a relationship game, the tools are just there to help you focus on building relationships more efficiently.

Dude I HATE to do this but...  I am a former NASA robotics scientist, so I too am uniquely qualified to answer any topic on technology, and data. Sorry, my dude, I have to oppose you (strongly). I will say upfront, that I am not your enemy. I too offer products so I know you must be passionate about yours, but this is something that has to be said.

There is an inherent flaw in this way of thinking no one seems to understand.

Why does everyone simply ignore the fact that you can not target motivated sellers? This is not an opinion, this is not arguable, and this is just DATA. This is a fact.  So, start from this fact, and then let's analyze why AI can't help you with lead generation, at least it can't help you improve the currently low efficiency of lead gen.

If you can't target them, it truly doesn't matter what advanced methods you use to try to target them right?

Imagine you have a fish in the ocean that doesn't eat. It doesn't even have a mouth.

So the entire world is using worms to try to bait it. But worms are so difficult to put on a hook, so here comes a clever dude who invents a machine that easily grabs a worm and hooks it within 1 tenth of a second.

That is great, BUT you CAN'T catch this fish with worms. So this machine for that purpose is useless no matter how cool or advanced.

Now this is exactly what is happening here.

YOU CAN NOT TAEGET MOTIVATED SELLERS no matter what gadget you use.

Now look at your data. Look at data period.

How many probate people do you need to reach out to to find one motivated seller in the mix? THOUSANDS. Isn't this data? Isn't this proof that people in probate, foreclosures, etc. etc are absolutely not motivated?

So here you explain that everyone is using lists, probate, and foreclosures (that aren't motivated sellers) and talk about how to differentiate yourself because everyone is using these lists. Isn't this the exact same thing as the fish example I just listed? You have a new way to reach these (non-motivated) people, but the fact is they remain not motivated people, no matter how much better your way is to contact these (non-motivated) people.

So you talk about data here. So let's talk about data.

3000 mailers to these lists to get one deal (if lucky). That is a 0.033% success rate. That means that 99.96% of the people you are targeting through lists, AI, however, are not motivated. So again,  the concept inherently doesn't work. It doesn't matter what you do to target the WRONG people. They are STILL the wrong people.

I just seriously do not understand why everyone just keeps ignoring this fact.

Why is it so hard to grasp? Seriously I just don't get it.

I will repeat. The people your AI is targeting are the wrong people. Not motivated sellers, so no AI will ever work. Again, if it did, everything else would be out of business by now, right?

But I am not putting just AI under the bus here.  This fact goes FAR beyond AI. NOTHING can target motivated sellers.

PROPSTREAM:

also a data app.

Why do you STILL have to send 3000 mailers calls or texts to prospects Propstream is giving you, to get ONE deal?

Yup. There is absolutely no difference between using Propstream and your standard list. Why are you all paying for a Propstream subscription when you have the exact same results without it, when it comes to finding motivated sellers?!

But people ignore this and see what they want to see. They WANT to believe propstream works because it would make success easier.  It is absolutely stupid retarded moronic.

People, wake up, and smell the data!

No software, no AI, no Propstream, no Batchleads, no NOTHING can target motivated sellers. NOTHING CAN.

The ONLY way to consistently get in touch with motivated sellers is for you to make it extremely easy for them to find you.

Why?

Because only THEY know they are motivated. Only motivated sellers know they are motivated. And per definition, when someone becomes motivated they will take it upon themselves to find a solution to their problem, which is the entire premise behind motivation. Eagerness to solve their problem. "MOTIVATED to solve their issues".

FACEBOOK:

Now, take Facebook.  Facebook has ALL the data. If there is ANY platform that would know who is motivated and who is not, it would be Facebook. Facebook knows anyone better than they know themselves. Facebook knows what you had for lunch in 2011 on the third Monday of June. Do you? No, but Facebook does. Facebook knows your troubles, your favorite food, and music, your crush, who your friends are, who you hang out with, and who you will hang out with. Facebook knows everything.

YET not even Facebook can predict who is motivated.  That is why you still have to pay a lot of money on Facebook ads because even Facebook which is a platform that knows everyone better than they know themselves, can find them!

Honestly, I wish it would, but it can't. I know this is not what you want to hear Sorry.... 

Now what AI CAN do however is automate this horribly poor inefficient method for lead generation. Your conversion rate will still be 0.033% but at least it is automated. But then again all this means is you have an automated way to lose money faster with a chance to get lucky and make some money.

But like Chris Seveny said.  It is a business. People will exploit and monetize new shiny objects to make money. People take advantage of all the hype behind AI and because AI does look INCREDIBLY impressive and no one understands what AI truly is, people think more about it than what it really is and everyone is obsessing over it, and thus there is an opportunity to make money by selling AI products. 

AI is great for many things but NOT lead generation.

 Truly loved this. It was all facts. I'm a new wholesaler and looking for motivated sellers is extremely hard from my new perspective. We have to find a very less time-sensitive way to have them come to us. I have been really racking my head around how to do this without spending hours of my time calling them and have them call me. The whole purpose of getting into real estate for me is to stop trading time for money. There has to be a better way. When the right person figures it out please let me know. Thank you for this post. It was well said. 

[Jerryll Noorden]

Quote from @Leonard McIntosh:

Quote from @Jerryll Noorden:

Quote from @Max Yuan:

@Joe Homs @Chris Seveney @Matthew Morrow, I'm the founder of GoliathData, a platform that uses AI for lead generation so I feel uniquely qualified to give my $0.02. - The benefit of AI comes down to the ability to automate proven processes.

For example, everyone is targeting the same probate / preforeclosure leads, so how do you get an advantage? You can have a tool that monitors the same data sources as you do today, but use the newest techniques in engineering to automatically extract names, addresses and cross reference that information with county databases before streaming that information to your CRM. Likely finishing the process before anyone else has the chance to even see the original data source, giving your the first mover advantage.

There is a lot of hype around AI and I have seen my fair share of BS. But AI powered tools is a mega-trend and those who use it to their advantage and knows its limitations will have a huge leg up on everyone else. End of the day, RE is a relationship game, the tools are just there to help you focus on building relationships more efficiently.

Dude I HATE to do this but...  I am a former NASA robotics scientist, so I too am uniquely qualified to answer any topic on technology, and data. Sorry, my dude, I have to oppose you (strongly). I will say upfront, that I am not your enemy. I too offer products so I know you must be passionate about yours, but this is something that has to be said.

There is an inherent flaw in this way of thinking no one seems to understand.

Why does everyone simply ignore the fact that you can not target motivated sellers? This is not an opinion, this is not arguable, and this is just DATA. This is a fact.  So, start from this fact, and then let's analyze why AI can't help you with lead generation, at least it can't help you improve the currently low efficiency of lead gen.

If you can't target them, it truly doesn't matter what advanced methods you use to try to target them right?

Imagine you have a fish in the ocean that doesn't eat. It doesn't even have a mouth.

So the entire world is using worms to try to bait it. But worms are so difficult to put on a hook, so here comes a clever dude who invents a machine that easily grabs a worm and hooks it within 1 tenth of a second.

That is great, BUT you CAN'T catch this fish with worms. So this machine for that purpose is useless no matter how cool or advanced.

Now this is exactly what is happening here.

YOU CAN NOT TAEGET MOTIVATED SELLERS no matter what gadget you use.

Now look at your data. Look at data period.

How many probate people do you need to reach out to to find one motivated seller in the mix? THOUSANDS. Isn't this data? Isn't this proof that people in probate, foreclosures, etc. etc are absolutely not motivated?

So here you explain that everyone is using lists, probate, and foreclosures (that aren't motivated sellers) and talk about how to differentiate yourself because everyone is using these lists. Isn't this the exact same thing as the fish example I just listed? You have a new way to reach these (non-motivated) people, but the fact is they remain not motivated people, no matter how much better your way is to contact these (non-motivated) people.

So you talk about data here. So let's talk about data.

3000 mailers to these lists to get one deal (if lucky). That is a 0.033% success rate. That means that 99.96% of the people you are targeting through lists, AI, however, are not motivated. So again,  the concept inherently doesn't work. It doesn't matter what you do to target the WRONG people. They are STILL the wrong people.

I just seriously do not understand why everyone just keeps ignoring this fact.

Why is it so hard to grasp? Seriously I just don't get it.

I will repeat. The people your AI is targeting are the wrong people. Not motivated sellers, so no AI will ever work. Again, if it did, everything else would be out of business by now, right?

But I am not putting just AI under the bus here.  This fact goes FAR beyond AI. NOTHING can target motivated sellers.

PROPSTREAM:

also a data app.

Why do you STILL have to send 3000 mailers calls or texts to prospects Propstream is giving you, to get ONE deal?

Yup. There is absolutely no difference between using Propstream and your standard list. Why are you all paying for a Propstream subscription when you have the exact same results without it, when it comes to finding motivated sellers?!

But people ignore this and see what they want to see. They WANT to believe propstream works because it would make success easier.  It is absolutely stupid retarded moronic.

People, wake up, and smell the data!

No software, no AI, no Propstream, no Batchleads, no NOTHING can target motivated sellers. NOTHING CAN.

The ONLY way to consistently get in touch with motivated sellers is for you to make it extremely easy for them to find you.

Why?

Because only THEY know they are motivated. Only motivated sellers know they are motivated. And per definition, when someone becomes motivated they will take it upon themselves to find a solution to their problem, which is the entire premise behind motivation. Eagerness to solve their problem. "MOTIVATED to solve their issues".

FACEBOOK:

Now, take Facebook.  Facebook has ALL the data. If there is ANY platform that would know who is motivated and who is not, it would be Facebook. Facebook knows anyone better than they know themselves. Facebook knows what you had for lunch in 2011 on the third Monday of June. Do you? No, but Facebook does. Facebook knows your troubles, your favorite food, and music, your crush, who your friends are, who you hang out with, and who you will hang out with. Facebook knows everything.

YET not even Facebook can predict who is motivated.  That is why you still have to pay a lot of money on Facebook ads because even Facebook which is a platform that knows everyone better than they know themselves, can find them!

Honestly, I wish it would, but it can't. I know this is not what you want to hear Sorry.... 

Now what AI CAN do however is automate this horribly poor inefficient method for lead generation. Your conversion rate will still be 0.033% but at least it is automated. But then again all this means is you have an automated way to lose money faster with a chance to get lucky and make some money.

But like Chris Seveny said.  It is a business. People will exploit and monetize new shiny objects to make money. People take advantage of all the hype behind AI and because AI does look INCREDIBLY impressive and no one understands what AI truly is, people think more about it than what it really is and everyone is obsessing over it, and thus there is an opportunity to make money by selling AI products. 

AI is great for many things but NOT lead generation.

 Truly loved this. It was all facts. I'm a new wholesaler and looking for motivated sellers is extremely hard from my new perspective. We have to find a very less time-sensitive way to have them come to us. I have been really racking my head around how to do this without spending hours of my time calling them and have them call me. The whole purpose of getting into real estate for me is to stop trading time for money. There has to be a better way. When the right person figures it out please let me know. Thank you for this post. It was well said. 

 Thank you Leonard.

"When the right person figures it out please let me know".

Well, there are a bunch of strategies out there. Each with their own advantages and drawbacks.

The point I am trying to convey for so long here on the forums is simply this.

Yes there are different systems with different advanteges ansd disadvantages, but within the realm of these different strategies there are still different catagories.

You have inbound marketing and you have outbound marketing.

PER DEFINITION, as in an inherent characteristic of motivated sellers is that it is not possible to target them, simply because there is no way of knowing when someone becomes motivated.

Is being is a horrible foreclosure scenarion make you motivated? 99% of the experts will say yes, and these are the perfect audience to chase after... because they are in some dire distress.

But let's look at data. Let's look at the facts. Someone in foreclosure rather destroy the cabinets, pour concrete down the drain, rather destroy their OWN loved house than sell to you AT MARKET VALUE, let alone at a discount.

Again, the standard average out there is that you need to send 3000 mailers, calls or texts to get 2 contracts signed IF LUCKY. That means 0.033% of the people on these lists are motivated which means 99.96% of these audiences are NOT motivated.

See, motivation is not a common sense or logical thing (activate mocking voice): "Hey if you are in distress you obviously are motivated". NO! You SHOULD be motivated. Yes. For all intents and purposes, you should be motivated. Yes. But they are not.

Motivation is an emotional thing, not a logical thing.

So back to all these strategies each with advantages and disadvantages. Yes each has their strengths and weaknesses, but that doesn't mean you can just pick and choose and expect it to be OK.

The strength and weaknesses of each of these strategies absolutely are not proportional.

The weaknesses of these bad strategies are ABSOLUTELY HORRIBLE, on a completely different level. That is why people that say "all strategies work, because all have strengths and weaknesses" are factually ignorant. I will explain further down below.

Based on what you know now about motivated sellers, it is evident you can not target them. So how do you find them? You can';t. They find YOU

When someone BECOMES motivated they are not going to sit and wait till someone sends them a magic mailer text or call presenting to them the solution?! WTH?!

The sender of these texts calls or mailers has no way of knowing they became motivated.

So when it comes to outbound marketing, (where you have to chase people) you need to send thousanfds of mailers HOPING a motivated seller is in the mix. The more mailers you send the higher the chance you will have a motivated seller in the mix. I would call it simply a strategy based on luck. But that is not even accurate. 50%-50% is luck. Heads or tails is luck.

You are dealing with a 99.96% probability against you.

That is not luck that is improbable!

So the weakness of these bad strategies is that you have a 99.96% failure rate. Your success rate is 0.033% and below.

That is ridiculous!!

Now in the realm of the inferior outbound marketing (vs the much better model of inbound marketing), Facebook ads is outbound. But this outbound marketing strategy is far more efficient than any outbound marketing.

Facebook ads simply work, as does PPC etc. etc. as long as you have some principles pat down. 

The weakness of these strategies is that the system is complicated, and it costs money.

But what you are doing is setting bait, a lure, and anyone that falls under the right prerequisites (wanting to sell their house fast for cash hopefully at a discount) will find that bait irresistible and they bite!

It is a much better model than spending thousands of dollars literally reaching people who have no intention of selling their house. The result is a lot of animosity, anger, yelling threats, and frustration.

SEO also has its weakness.

1. no one can promise you that you will rank #1 (but you can do something about that. Become friggin good at like like I am. done)

2. It takes work and time to set it all up (but again you can overcome this weakness by just doing the work. Done)

Strengths. 

1. Once set up it works indefinitely

2. I don't do anything to get leads

3. My leads are 100% free

4. My leads are of highest quality

5. Deals have huge profit spreads (I buy houses for 7 cents to 30 cents on the dollar)

6. When you DO rank #1, you have ZERO competition. You get all the leads.\

So when you compare these strengths and weaknesses, they are on a COMPLETELY different level.

Now before haters start commenting you need to understand this. I am not uptalking SEO because I have a SEO service. That is just dumb., I have an SEO service BECAUSE I noticed all the strong advantages compared to the easily overcome weaknesses of SEO. THAT is why I am all for SEO!

Now You can do SEO on your own for free. I did it. I didn't pay anyone. You don't have to pay anyone. Just follow all the posts I have made here on BP and you can easily do the same thing.

[Henrry Novas]

Quote from @Jerryll Noorden:

Quote from @Leonard McIntosh:

Quote from @Jerryll Noorden:

Quote from@Max Yuan:

@Joe Homs  @Matthew Morrow, I'm the founder of GoliathData, a platform that uses AI for lead generation so I feel uniquely qualified to give my $0.02. - The benefit of AI comes down to the ability to automate proven processes.

For example, everyone is targeting the same probate / preforeclosure leads, so how do you get an advantage? You can have a tool that monitors the same data sources as you do today, but use the newest techniques in engineering to automatically extract names, addresses and cross reference that information with county databases before streaming that information to your CRM. Likely finishing the process before anyone else has the chance to even see the original data source, giving your the first mover advantage.

There is a lot of hype around AI and I have seen my fair share of BS. But AI powered tools is a mega-trend and those who use it to their advantage and knows its limitations will have a huge leg up on everyone else. End of the day, RE is a relationship game, the tools are just there to help you focus on building relationships more efficiently.

Dude I HATE to do this but...  I am a former NASA robotics scientist, so I too am uniquely qualified to answer any topic on technology, and data. Sorry, my dude, I have to oppose you (strongly). I will say upfront, that I am not your enemy. I too offer products so I know you must be passionate about yours, but this is something that has to be said.

There is an inherent flaw in this way of thinking no one seems to understand.

Why does everyone simply ignore the fact that you can not target motivated sellers? This is not an opinion, this is not arguable, and this is just DATA. This is a fact.  So, start from this fact, and then let's analyze why AI can't help you with lead generation, at least it can't help you improve the currently low efficiency of lead gen.

If you can't target them, it truly doesn't matter what advanced methods you use to try to target them right?

Imagine you have a fish in the ocean that doesn't eat. It doesn't even have a mouth.

So the entire world is using worms to try to bait it. But worms are so difficult to put on a hook, so here comes a clever dude who invents a machine that easily grabs a worm and hooks it within 1 tenth of a second.

That is great, BUT you CAN'T catch this fish with worms. So this machine for that purpose is useless no matter how cool or advanced.

Now this is exactly what is happening here.

YOU CAN NOT TAEGET MOTIVATED SELLERS no matter what gadget you use.

Now look at your data. Look at data period.

How many probate people do you need to reach out to to find one motivated seller in the mix? THOUSANDS. Isn't this data? Isn't this proof that people in probate, foreclosures, etc. etc are absolutely not motivated?

So here you explain that everyone is using lists, probate, and foreclosures (that aren't motivated sellers) and talk about how to differentiate yourself because everyone is using these lists. Isn't this the exact same thing as the fish example I just listed? You have a new way to reach these (non-motivated) people, but the fact is they remain not motivated people, no matter how much better your way is to contact these (non-motivated) people.

So you talk about data here. So let's talk about data.

3000 mailers to these lists to get one deal (if lucky). That is a 0.033% success rate. That means that 99.96% of the people you are targeting through lists, AI, however, are not motivated. So again,  the concept inherently doesn't work. It doesn't matter what you do to target the WRONG people. They are STILL the wrong people.

I just seriously do not understand why everyone just keeps ignoring this fact.

Why is it so hard to grasp? Seriously I just don't get it.

I will repeat. The people your AI is targeting are the wrong people. Not motivated sellers, so no AI will ever work. Again, if it did, everything else would be out of business by now, right?

But I am not putting just AI under the bus here.  This fact goes FAR beyond AI. NOTHING can target motivated sellers.

PROPSTREAM:

also a data app.

Why do you STILL have to send 3000 mailers calls or texts to prospects Propstream is giving you, to get ONE deal?

Yup. There is absolutely no difference between using Propstream and your standard list. Why are you all paying for a Propstream subscription when you have the exact same results without it, when it comes to finding motivated sellers?!

But people ignore this and see what they want to see. They WANT to believe propstream works because it would make success easier.  It is absolutely stupid retarded moronic.

People, wake up, and smell the data!

No software, no AI, no Propstream, no Batchleads, no NOTHING can target motivated sellers. NOTHING CAN.

The ONLY way to consistently get in touch with motivated sellers is for you to make it extremely easy for them to find you.

Why?

Because only THEY know they are motivated. Only motivated sellers know they are motivated. And per definition, when someone becomes motivated they will take it upon themselves to find a solution to their problem, which is the entire premise behind motivation. Eagerness to solve their problem. "MOTIVATED to solve their issues".

FACEBOOK:

Now, take Facebook.  Facebook has ALL the data. If there is ANY platform that would know who is motivated and who is not, it would be Facebook. Facebook knows anyone better than they know themselves. Facebook knows what you had for lunch in 2011 on the third Monday of June. Do you? No, but Facebook does. Facebook knows your troubles, your favorite food, and music, your crush, who your friends are, who you hang out with, and who you will hang out with. Facebook knows everything.

YET not even Facebook can predict who is motivated.  That is why you still have to pay a lot of money on Facebook ads because even Facebook which is a platform that knows everyone better than they know themselves, can find them!

Honestly, I wish it would, but it can't. I know this is not what you want to hear Sorry.... 

Now what AI CAN do however is automate this horribly poor inefficient method for lead generation. Your conversion rate will still be 0.033% but at least it is automated. But then again all this means is you have an automated way to lose money faster with a chance to get lucky and make some money.

But like Chris Seveny said.  It is a business. People will exploit and monetize new shiny objects to make money. People take advantage of all the hype behind AI and because AI does look INCREDIBLY impressive and no one understands what AI truly is, people think more about it than what it really is and everyone is obsessing over it, and thus there is an opportunity to make money by selling AI products. 

AI is great for many things but NOT lead generation.

 Truly loved this. It was all facts. I'm a new wholesaler and looking for motivated sellers is extremely hard from my new perspective. We have to find a very less time-sensitive way to have them come to us. I have been really racking my head around how to do this without spending hours of my time calling them and have them call me. The whole purpose of getting into real estate for me is to stop trading time for money. There has to be a better way. When the right person figures it out please let me know. Thank you for this post. It was well said. 

 Thank you Leonard.

"When the right person figures it out please let me know".

Well, there are a bunch of strategies out there. Each with their own advantages and drawbacks.

The point I am trying to convey for so long here on the forums is simply this.

Yes there are different systems with different advanteges ansd disadvantages, but within the realm of these different strategies there are still different catagories.

You have inbound marketing and you have outbound marketing.

PER DEFINITION, as in an inherent characteristic of motivated sellers is that it is not possible to target them, simply because there is no way of knowing when someone becomes motivated.

Is being is a horrible foreclosure scenarion make you motivated? 99% of the experts will say yes, and these are the perfect audience to chase after... because they are in some dire distress.

But let's look at data. Let's look at the facts. Someone in foreclosure rather destroy the cabinets, pour concrete down the drain, rather destroy their OWN loved house than sell to you AT MARKET VALUE, let alone at a discount.

Again, the standard average out there is that you need to send 3000 mailers, calls or texts to get 2 contracts signed IF LUCKY. That means 0.033% of the people on these lists are motivated which means 99.96% of these audiences are NOT motivated.

See, motivation is not a common sense or logical thing (activate mocking voice): "Hey if you are in distress you obviously are motivated". NO! You SHOULD be motivated. Yes. For all intents and purposes, you should be motivated. Yes. But they are not.

Motivation is an emotional thing, not a logical thing.

So back to all these strategies each with advantages and disadvantages. Yes each has their strengths and weaknesses, but that doesn't mean you can just pick and choose and expect it to be OK.

The strength and weaknesses of each of these strategies absolutely are not proportional.

The weaknesses of these bad strategies are ABSOLUTELY HORRIBLE, on a completely different level. That is why people that say "all strategies work, because all have strengths and weaknesses" are factually ignorant. I will explain further down below.

Based on what you know now about motivated sellers, it is evident you can not target them. So how do you find them? You can';t. They find YOU

When someone BECOMES motivated they are not going to sit and wait till someone sends them a magic mailer text or call presenting to them the solution?! WTH?!

The sender of these texts calls or mailers has no way of knowing they became motivated.

So when it comes to outbound marketing, (where you have to chase people) you need to send thousanfds of mailers HOPING a motivated seller is in the mix. The more mailers you send the higher the chance you will have a motivated seller in the mix. I would call it simply a strategy based on luck. But that is not even accurate. 50%-50% is luck. Heads or tails is luck.

You are dealing with a 99.96% probability against you.

That is not luck that is improbable!

So the weakness of these bad strategies is that you have a 99.96% failure rate. Your success rate is 0.033% and below.

That is ridiculous!!

Now in the realm of the inferior outbound marketing (vs the much better model of inbound marketing), Facebook ads is outbound. But this outbound marketing strategy is far more efficient than any outbound marketing.

Facebook ads simply work, as does PPC etc. etc. as long as you have some principles pat down. 

The weakness of these strategies is that the system is complicated, and it costs money.

But what you are doing is setting bait, a lure, and anyone that falls under the right prerequisites (wanting to sell their house fast for cash hopefully at a discount) will find that bait irresistible and they bite!

It is a much better model than spending thousands of dollars literally reaching people who have no intention of selling their house. The result is a lot of animosity, anger, yelling threats, and frustration.

SEO also has its weakness.

1. no one can promise you that you will rank #1 (but you can do something about that. Become friggin good at like like I am. done)

2. It takes work and time to set it all up (but again you can overcome this weakness by just doing the work. Done)

Strengths. 

1. Once set up it works indefinitely

2. I don't do anything to get leads

3. My leads are 100% free

4. My leads are of highest quality

5. Deals have huge profit spreads (I buy houses for 7 cents to 30 cents on the dollar)

6. When you DO rank #1, you have ZERO competition. You get all the leads.\

So when you compare these strengths and weaknesses, they are on a COMPLETELY different level.

Now before haters start commenting you need to understand this. I am not uptalking SEO because I have a SEO service. That is just dumb., I have an SEO service BECAUSE I noticed all the strong advantages compared to the easily overcome weaknesses of SEO. THAT is why I am all for SEO!

Now You can do SEO on your own for free. I did it. I didn't pay anyone. You don't have to pay anyone. Just follow all the posts I have made here on BP and you can easily do the same thing.

Enjoyed reading through this forum. @Max Yuan & @Jerryll Noorden, you both make valid points.

[Adrian Diaz]

Thanks for sharing