Should I get an LLC or just umbrella insurance for Ohio rentals?

Should I get an LLC or just umbrella insurance for Ohio rentals?

Member since 2024 · 17 posts · 12 votes

Hi professionals and fellow investors!

I've just purchased my first property, and I have a question for Ohio state long term rental properties. I have just closed a 4-plex with tenants inside. All the tenants are recruited by the previous seller, so I don't know their credits and don't know their personalities. Now I want to protect myself from any potential lawsuits from them.

I'm debating between an umbrella insurance and a LLC. Here are my thoughts, and why suggestion would be greatly appreciated!!

1. Regarding annual cost, LLC is better. To get an umbrella that covers my net worth, it would cost me $600 more every year. Whereas Ohio states does not have renewal fee for an LLC, except a one-time setup fee of $99, plus a fee to get lawyer to setup and transfer deed for me for $1000 in total.

2. Regarding total potential loss, Umbrella is better. Per my understanding, if I have an Umbrella that covers my net worth, then even if I lose on a lawsuit, I will not lose any asset. However, losing a lawsuit may cost me the property, which is worth about $200K.

3. Regarding daily operating, Umbrella is better. I don't need to worry about anything with Umbrella, but for LLC, I need to follow the operation agreement and keep in mind not mixing personal and business bank account.

I'd like to know what are your thoughts, and how do you make decision in this case?

Thank you very much!!

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Most Popular Reply

Clint CoonsBusiness Member
Real Estate Attorney · Tacoma, WA · Member since 2009 · 38 posts · 55 votes
1y

@Dennis Li

Dennis, your question is very common among real estate investors, and it's an important one. Insurance is crucial, and you should always ensure your property is properly insured, whether it's held in an LLC or your personal name. Having insurance provides peace of mind, but it's equally important to carefully review your policy to understand what is excluded from coverage. Here is a detailed list of common exclusions in landlord policies that can pose significant risks to property owners:

Toxic Mold & Environmental Contamination – Most policies exclude claims related to mold, asbestos, fentanyl, viruses, bacteria, lead paint, or other environmental hazards. For example, a client was sued for mold contamination that resulted from a tenant improperly installing their own washing machine, leading to water damage and mold growth. 

Dog Bites from a Tenant’s Dog – Many landlord policies exclude liability for injuries caused by a tenant’s dog, especially if it is considered a restricted breed. In one case, a client’s Rottweiler, which was chained in the backyard, bit a neighbor who was trying to save her small dog after it attacked the Rottweiler. 

Criminal Acts or Intentional Misconduct – Insurance does not cover claims of negligence if the alleged act was intentional, such as wrongful eviction, harassment, or assault. For instance, one client is currently dealing with a claim where a plumber sent to repair a toilet was accused by the tenant of sexual harassment. 

Fair Housing & Discrimination Lawsuits – Claims involving discrimination, wrongful eviction, or violations of the Fair Housing Act often require separate coverage. Without this additional protection, landlords could face significant legal costs and damages in the event of a lawsuit.

Tenant Injuries Due to Poor Maintenance – If a tenant is injured because of known maintenance issues, such as broken stairs or faulty wiring, and negligence is proven, insurance may not cover the claim. One client is currently being sued for failing to remediate standing water in a crawlspace. The client was aware of the issue and attempted to fix it but did not fully resolve the problem, which resulted in an environmental hazard and tenant complaints.

Bed Bug & Pest Infestation Lawsuits – Most landlord insurance policies exclude coverage for pest infestation lawsuits, such as bed bugs, roaches, or rodents. For example, a client faced a lawsuit after attempting to remediate a bed bug infestation, but the tenant refused to allow the exterminator into the apartment.  

Contractor or Worker Injuries – If you hire an unlicensed worker, such as a handyman or plumber, and they get injured on your property, you may be liable unless you have workers’ compensation or a separate policy in place. One client hired a contractor whose license had lapsed. During a roofing job, the contractor’s brother-in-law fell off the roof and tragically died.  

Personal Injury & Defamation Claims – Standard landlord policies usually do not cover claims for libel, slander, or invasion of privacy. For example, if a tenant sues for illegal surveillance or damage to their reputation, you may be left entirely exposed to financial liability.

Many of these exclusions carry the potential for significant damages. I often view using an LLC as a preventative measure. While the likelihood of being sued may feel small, the consequences of a lawsuit can be severe. In my 17 years of real estate investing, I have not been sued once, despite experiencing major property damage—such as two homes burning to the ground due to faulty wiring and a tree collapsing onto a master bedroom while a tenant was sleeping. Thankfully, no one was injured, but had I not been so fortunate, I would have faced serious financial risk without the protection of an LLC.

Based on my experience working with many clients who have been involved in lawsuits, I can confidently say that LLCs work. They offer a layer of protection that can shield you from personal liability. Another critical point to consider is that even if a claim is covered under your insurance policy, having an asset protection plan in place can discourage attorneys from seeking the sun, moon and stars as damages. 

Lastly, take a close look at your umbrella policy and ensure it does not rely on your landlord policy for coverage. In some cases, if the underlying policy does not cover the claim, the umbrella coverage may not apply either. 

See this reply in the discussion

13 Replies

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  • Rental Property Investor · North Palm Beach, FL · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    1y

    @Dennis Li

    Why not get both? You can add additional properties to the LLC as well. Your risk tolerance and net worth depend on how many future properties you would add. I also feel $1,000 is a bit high to set up an LLC and QuickClaim a property.

    • Member since 2024 · 17 posts · 12 votes
      1y
      Quote from @Charles Carillo:

      @Dennis Li

      Why not get both? You can add additional properties to the LLC as well. Your risk tolerance and net worth depend on how many future properties you would add. I also feel $1,000 is a bit high to set up an LLC and QuickClaim a property.


      It's just having both cost more money, and managing LLC seems to be troublesome. Good to know that $1000 is higher than market. Then I can try to find someone cheaper. The 2 lawyers I asked, one is $1000 and another one is $1600, both includes setting up LLC and transfer deed.

  • Chris SeveneyBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Investor · VA · Member since 2015 · 21k+ posts · 19k+ votes
    1y
    Quote from @Dennis Li:

    Hi professionals and fellow investors!

    I've just purchased my first property, and I have a question for Ohio state long term rental properties. I have just closed a 4-plex with tenants inside. All the tenants are recruited by the previous seller, so I don't know their credits and don't know their personalities. Now I want to protect myself from any potential lawsuits from them.

    I'm debating between an umbrella insurance and a LLC. Here are my thoughts, and why suggestion would be greatly appreciated!!

    1. Regarding annual cost, LLC is better. To get an umbrella that covers my net worth, it would cost me $600 more every year. Whereas Ohio states does not have renewal fee for an LLC, except a one-time setup fee of $99, plus a fee to get lawyer to setup and transfer deed for me for $1000 in total.

    2. Regarding total potential loss, Umbrella is better. Per my understanding, if I have an Umbrella that covers my net worth, then even if I lose on a lawsuit, I will not lose any asset. However, losing a lawsuit may cost me the property, which is worth about $200K.

    3. Regarding daily operating, Umbrella is better. I don't need to worry about anything with Umbrella, but for LLC, I need to follow the operation agreement and keep in mind not mixing personal and business bank account.

    I'd like to know what are your thoughts, and how do you make decision in this case?

    Thank you very much!!

    Few questions:
    1. Do you have $200k in equity in the property? (value minus loan)?
    2. What are you afraid of getting sued for?
    3. What does your PM agreement state regarding indemnification
    4. If you self manage, its not uncommon for a lawsuit for the manager to be named personally, so LLC would not help there.
    5. We have found in Ohio if you are out of state LLC you are definitely targeted for violations for often than an individual.
    6. Whose name is on the loan?
    7. Did your LLC do a cash transaction and actually buy the property or did you just transfer it (this can get pierced like hot butter)

    So the answer is it depends. If you buy it and set it up as a LLC, then great, if you are one of the buy it in my name then transfer it, your protection from a good attorney is zero. But the reality is unless you are groslly negligent, insurance would cover 99.9% of any lawsuits.
    Note not an attorney just providing my 2 cents.
    7e investments53 Reviews
    • Member since 2024 · 17 posts · 12 votes
      1y
      Quote from @Chris Seveney:
      Quote from @Dennis Li:

      Hi professionals and fellow investors!

      I've just purchased my first property, and I have a question for Ohio state long term rental properties. I have just closed a 4-plex with tenants inside. All the tenants are recruited by the previous seller, so I don't know their credits and don't know their personalities. Now I want to protect myself from any potential lawsuits from them.

      I'm debating between an umbrella insurance and a LLC. Here are my thoughts, and why suggestion would be greatly appreciated!!

      1. Regarding annual cost, LLC is better. To get an umbrella that covers my net worth, it would cost me $600 more every year. Whereas Ohio states does not have renewal fee for an LLC, except a one-time setup fee of $99, plus a fee to get lawyer to setup and transfer deed for me for $1000 in total.

      2. Regarding total potential loss, Umbrella is better. Per my understanding, if I have an Umbrella that covers my net worth, then even if I lose on a lawsuit, I will not lose any asset. However, losing a lawsuit may cost me the property, which is worth about $200K.

      3. Regarding daily operating, Umbrella is better. I don't need to worry about anything with Umbrella, but for LLC, I need to follow the operation agreement and keep in mind not mixing personal and business bank account.

      I'd like to know what are your thoughts, and how do you make decision in this case?

      Thank you very much!!

      Few questions:
      1. Do you have $200k in equity in the property? (value minus loan)?
      2. What are you afraid of getting sued for?
      3. What does your PM agreement state regarding indemnification
      4. If you self manage, its not uncommon for a lawsuit for the manager to be named personally, so LLC would not help there.
      5. We have found in Ohio if you are out of state LLC you are definitely targeted for violations for often than an individual.
      6. Whose name is on the loan?
      7. Did your LLC do a cash transaction and actually buy the property or did you just transfer it (this can get pierced like hot butter)

      So the answer is it depends. If you buy it and set it up as a LLC, then great, if you are one of the buy it in my name then transfer it, your protection from a good attorney is zero. But the reality is unless you are groslly negligent, insurance would cover 99.9% of any lawsuits.
      Note not an attorney just providing my 2 cents.

       Thanks Chris for the checklist!

      1. I have about 50K in the property, the rest is loan.

      2. I'm just in general afraid of getting sued and loss my other assets. Haven't been landlord before, so now just anxious.

      3. The PM agreement states that they will charge $115 per hour for legal proceedings.

      4. Not self manage.

      5. Oh no..

      6. My wife and I are on the loan now, so it is a personal loan.

      7. I just want to setup LLC and transfer deed.

      Why would the "buy and transfer deed" have zero protection? I thought most people do it this way.

    • Chris SeveneyBusiness Member
      Moderator
      Investor · VA · Member since 2015 · 21k+ posts · 19k+ votes
      1y
      Quote from @Dennis Li:
      Quote from @Chris Seveney:
      Quote from @Dennis Li:

      Hi professionals and fellow investors!

      I've just purchased my first property, and I have a question for Ohio state long term rental properties. I have just closed a 4-plex with tenants inside. All the tenants are recruited by the previous seller, so I don't know their credits and don't know their personalities. Now I want to protect myself from any potential lawsuits from them.

      I'm debating between an umbrella insurance and a LLC. Here are my thoughts, and why suggestion would be greatly appreciated!!

      1. Regarding annual cost, LLC is better. To get an umbrella that covers my net worth, it would cost me $600 more every year. Whereas Ohio states does not have renewal fee for an LLC, except a one-time setup fee of $99, plus a fee to get lawyer to setup and transfer deed for me for $1000 in total.

      2. Regarding total potential loss, Umbrella is better. Per my understanding, if I have an Umbrella that covers my net worth, then even if I lose on a lawsuit, I will not lose any asset. However, losing a lawsuit may cost me the property, which is worth about $200K.

      3. Regarding daily operating, Umbrella is better. I don't need to worry about anything with Umbrella, but for LLC, I need to follow the operation agreement and keep in mind not mixing personal and business bank account.

      I'd like to know what are your thoughts, and how do you make decision in this case?

      Thank you very much!!

      Few questions:
      1. Do you have $200k in equity in the property? (value minus loan)?
      2. What are you afraid of getting sued for?
      3. What does your PM agreement state regarding indemnification
      4. If you self manage, its not uncommon for a lawsuit for the manager to be named personally, so LLC would not help there.
      5. We have found in Ohio if you are out of state LLC you are definitely targeted for violations for often than an individual.
      6. Whose name is on the loan?
      7. Did your LLC do a cash transaction and actually buy the property or did you just transfer it (this can get pierced like hot butter)

      So the answer is it depends. If you buy it and set it up as a LLC, then great, if you are one of the buy it in my name then transfer it, your protection from a good attorney is zero. But the reality is unless you are groslly negligent, insurance would cover 99.9% of any lawsuits.
      Note not an attorney just providing my 2 cents.

       Thanks Chris for the checklist!

      1. I have about 50K in the property, the rest is loan.

      2. I'm just in general afraid of getting sued and loss my other assets. Haven't been landlord before, so now just anxious.

      3. The PM agreement states that they will charge $115 per hour for legal proceedings.

      4. Not self manage.

      5. Oh no..

      6. My wife and I are on the loan now, so it is a personal loan.

      7. I just want to setup LLC and transfer deed.

      Why would the "buy and transfer deed" have zero protection? I thought most people do it this way.


      An LLC is to be completely separate from you and treated as such. Do you typically deed other people a property and keep paying the mortgage for them in your name?

      Think of an attorney on the stand questioning how was the LLC kept separate when it didnt pay for anything?

      (fortunately you will never get there because of insurance so all of this is mute point as residential properties rarely (search BP for lawsuits) get sued and not covered by insurance).

      7e investments53 Reviews
    • Member since 2024 · 17 posts · 12 votes
      1y
      Quote from @Chris Seveney:
      Quote from @Dennis Li:
      Quote from @Chris Seveney:
      Quote from @Dennis Li:

      Hi professionals and fellow investors!

      I've just purchased my first property, and I have a question for Ohio state long term rental properties. I have just closed a 4-plex with tenants inside. All the tenants are recruited by the previous seller, so I don't know their credits and don't know their personalities. Now I want to protect myself from any potential lawsuits from them.

      I'm debating between an umbrella insurance and a LLC. Here are my thoughts, and why suggestion would be greatly appreciated!!

      1. Regarding annual cost, LLC is better. To get an umbrella that covers my net worth, it would cost me $600 more every year. Whereas Ohio states does not have renewal fee for an LLC, except a one-time setup fee of $99, plus a fee to get lawyer to setup and transfer deed for me for $1000 in total.

      2. Regarding total potential loss, Umbrella is better. Per my understanding, if I have an Umbrella that covers my net worth, then even if I lose on a lawsuit, I will not lose any asset. However, losing a lawsuit may cost me the property, which is worth about $200K.

      3. Regarding daily operating, Umbrella is better. I don't need to worry about anything with Umbrella, but for LLC, I need to follow the operation agreement and keep in mind not mixing personal and business bank account.

      I'd like to know what are your thoughts, and how do you make decision in this case?

      Thank you very much!!

      Few questions:
      1. Do you have $200k in equity in the property? (value minus loan)?
      2. What are you afraid of getting sued for?
      3. What does your PM agreement state regarding indemnification
      4. If you self manage, its not uncommon for a lawsuit for the manager to be named personally, so LLC would not help there.
      5. We have found in Ohio if you are out of state LLC you are definitely targeted for violations for often than an individual.
      6. Whose name is on the loan?
      7. Did your LLC do a cash transaction and actually buy the property or did you just transfer it (this can get pierced like hot butter)

      So the answer is it depends. If you buy it and set it up as a LLC, then great, if you are one of the buy it in my name then transfer it, your protection from a good attorney is zero. But the reality is unless you are groslly negligent, insurance would cover 99.9% of any lawsuits.
      Note not an attorney just providing my 2 cents.

       Thanks Chris for the checklist!

      1. I have about 50K in the property, the rest is loan.

      2. I'm just in general afraid of getting sued and loss my other assets. Haven't been landlord before, so now just anxious.

      3. The PM agreement states that they will charge $115 per hour for legal proceedings.

      4. Not self manage.

      5. Oh no..

      6. My wife and I are on the loan now, so it is a personal loan.

      7. I just want to setup LLC and transfer deed.

      Why would the "buy and transfer deed" have zero protection? I thought most people do it this way.


      An LLC is to be completely separate from you and treated as such. Do you typically deed other people a property and keep paying the mortgage for them in your name?

      Think of an attorney on the stand questioning how was the LLC kept separate when it didnt pay for anything?

      (fortunately you will never get there because of insurance so all of this is mute point as residential properties rarely (search BP for lawsuits) get sued and not covered by insurance).


      In my case, I will transfer the deed to the LLC, and have a business bank account under the LLC, and all the rental/expense will be using that business bank account. I will only use my personal bank account for the property until the business bank account is setup.

      I assume this avoid the issue you are mentioning here?

    • Chris SeveneyBusiness Member
      Moderator
      Investor · VA · Member since 2015 · 21k+ posts · 19k+ votes
      1y
      Quote from @Dennis Li:
      Quote from @Chris Seveney:
      Quote from @Dennis Li:
      Quote from @Chris Seveney:
      Quote from @Dennis Li:

      Hi professionals and fellow investors!

      I've just purchased my first property, and I have a question for Ohio state long term rental properties. I have just closed a 4-plex with tenants inside. All the tenants are recruited by the previous seller, so I don't know their credits and don't know their personalities. Now I want to protect myself from any potential lawsuits from them.

      I'm debating between an umbrella insurance and a LLC. Here are my thoughts, and why suggestion would be greatly appreciated!!

      1. Regarding annual cost, LLC is better. To get an umbrella that covers my net worth, it would cost me $600 more every year. Whereas Ohio states does not have renewal fee for an LLC, except a one-time setup fee of $99, plus a fee to get lawyer to setup and transfer deed for me for $1000 in total.

      2. Regarding total potential loss, Umbrella is better. Per my understanding, if I have an Umbrella that covers my net worth, then even if I lose on a lawsuit, I will not lose any asset. However, losing a lawsuit may cost me the property, which is worth about $200K.

      3. Regarding daily operating, Umbrella is better. I don't need to worry about anything with Umbrella, but for LLC, I need to follow the operation agreement and keep in mind not mixing personal and business bank account.

      I'd like to know what are your thoughts, and how do you make decision in this case?

      Thank you very much!!

      Few questions:
      1. Do you have $200k in equity in the property? (value minus loan)?
      2. What are you afraid of getting sued for?
      3. What does your PM agreement state regarding indemnification
      4. If you self manage, its not uncommon for a lawsuit for the manager to be named personally, so LLC would not help there.
      5. We have found in Ohio if you are out of state LLC you are definitely targeted for violations for often than an individual.
      6. Whose name is on the loan?
      7. Did your LLC do a cash transaction and actually buy the property or did you just transfer it (this can get pierced like hot butter)

      So the answer is it depends. If you buy it and set it up as a LLC, then great, if you are one of the buy it in my name then transfer it, your protection from a good attorney is zero. But the reality is unless you are groslly negligent, insurance would cover 99.9% of any lawsuits.
      Note not an attorney just providing my 2 cents.

       Thanks Chris for the checklist!

      1. I have about 50K in the property, the rest is loan.

      2. I'm just in general afraid of getting sued and loss my other assets. Haven't been landlord before, so now just anxious.

      3. The PM agreement states that they will charge $115 per hour for legal proceedings.

      4. Not self manage.

      5. Oh no..

      6. My wife and I are on the loan now, so it is a personal loan.

      7. I just want to setup LLC and transfer deed.

      Why would the "buy and transfer deed" have zero protection? I thought most people do it this way.


      An LLC is to be completely separate from you and treated as such. Do you typically deed other people a property and keep paying the mortgage for them in your name?

      Think of an attorney on the stand questioning how was the LLC kept separate when it didnt pay for anything?

      (fortunately you will never get there because of insurance so all of this is mute point as residential properties rarely (search BP for lawsuits) get sued and not covered by insurance).


      In my case, I will transfer the deed to the LLC, and have a business bank account under the LLC, and all the rental/expense will be using that business bank account. I will only use my personal bank account for the property until the business bank account is setup.

      I assume this avoid the issue you are mentioning here?


      nope it will not. you are TRANSFERRING not selling. As I mentioned in the past, do you just transfer properties to any non arms length transaction. Will you transfer me properties for free, or another poster here on BP? Of course you will not give someone a free house. When you give your LLC a free house, how is that arms length? And you will say the LLC is paying the mortgage- well tell that to a judge when the loan is in your name.

      If you want asset protection buy it and finance it in the LLC. Just transferring it gives you zero protection - the reason why it never comes up is because no one can name ways you get sued when you have a good insurance policy so its a mute point

      So long story short, you are wasting money transferring it to a LLC is my personal non legal non tax opinion.

      7e investments53 Reviews
    • Member since 2024 · 17 posts · 12 votes
      1y
      Quote from @Chris Seveney:
      Quote from @Dennis Li:
      Quote from @Chris Seveney:
      Quote from @Dennis Li:
      Quote from @Chris Seveney:
      Quote from @Dennis Li:

      Hi professionals and fellow investors!

      I've just purchased my first property, and I have a question for Ohio state long term rental properties. I have just closed a 4-plex with tenants inside. All the tenants are recruited by the previous seller, so I don't know their credits and don't know their personalities. Now I want to protect myself from any potential lawsuits from them.

      I'm debating between an umbrella insurance and a LLC. Here are my thoughts, and why suggestion would be greatly appreciated!!

      1. Regarding annual cost, LLC is better. To get an umbrella that covers my net worth, it would cost me $600 more every year. Whereas Ohio states does not have renewal fee for an LLC, except a one-time setup fee of $99, plus a fee to get lawyer to setup and transfer deed for me for $1000 in total.

      2. Regarding total potential loss, Umbrella is better. Per my understanding, if I have an Umbrella that covers my net worth, then even if I lose on a lawsuit, I will not lose any asset. However, losing a lawsuit may cost me the property, which is worth about $200K.

      3. Regarding daily operating, Umbrella is better. I don't need to worry about anything with Umbrella, but for LLC, I need to follow the operation agreement and keep in mind not mixing personal and business bank account.

      I'd like to know what are your thoughts, and how do you make decision in this case?

      Thank you very much!!

      Few questions:
      1. Do you have $200k in equity in the property? (value minus loan)?
      2. What are you afraid of getting sued for?
      3. What does your PM agreement state regarding indemnification
      4. If you self manage, its not uncommon for a lawsuit for the manager to be named personally, so LLC would not help there.
      5. We have found in Ohio if you are out of state LLC you are definitely targeted for violations for often than an individual.
      6. Whose name is on the loan?
      7. Did your LLC do a cash transaction and actually buy the property or did you just transfer it (this can get pierced like hot butter)

      So the answer is it depends. If you buy it and set it up as a LLC, then great, if you are one of the buy it in my name then transfer it, your protection from a good attorney is zero. But the reality is unless you are groslly negligent, insurance would cover 99.9% of any lawsuits.
      Note not an attorney just providing my 2 cents.

       Thanks Chris for the checklist!

      1. I have about 50K in the property, the rest is loan.

      2. I'm just in general afraid of getting sued and loss my other assets. Haven't been landlord before, so now just anxious.

      3. The PM agreement states that they will charge $115 per hour for legal proceedings.

      4. Not self manage.

      5. Oh no..

      6. My wife and I are on the loan now, so it is a personal loan.

      7. I just want to setup LLC and transfer deed.

      Why would the "buy and transfer deed" have zero protection? I thought most people do it this way.


      An LLC is to be completely separate from you and treated as such. Do you typically deed other people a property and keep paying the mortgage for them in your name?

      Think of an attorney on the stand questioning how was the LLC kept separate when it didnt pay for anything?

      (fortunately you will never get there because of insurance so all of this is mute point as residential properties rarely (search BP for lawsuits) get sued and not covered by insurance).


      In my case, I will transfer the deed to the LLC, and have a business bank account under the LLC, and all the rental/expense will be using that business bank account. I will only use my personal bank account for the property until the business bank account is setup.

      I assume this avoid the issue you are mentioning here?


      nope it will not. you are TRANSFERRING not selling. As I mentioned in the past, do you just transfer properties to any non arms length transaction. Will you transfer me properties for free, or another poster here on BP? Of course you will not give someone a free house. When you give your LLC a free house, how is that arms length? And you will say the LLC is paying the mortgage- well tell that to a judge when the loan is in your name.

      If you want asset protection buy it and finance it in the LLC. Just transferring it gives you zero protection - the reason why it never comes up is because no one can name ways you get sued when you have a good insurance policy so its a mute point

      So long story short, you are wasting money transferring it to a LLC is my personal non legal non tax opinion.


       Thanks for the honest opinion Chris!

      I'm sticking with Umbrella that covers my net worth.

  • Jimmy LieuBusiness Member
    Real Estate Agent · Columbus, OH · Member since 2019 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    1y
    Quote from @Dennis Li:

    Hi professionals and fellow investors!

    I've just purchased my first property, and I have a question for Ohio state long term rental properties. I have just closed a 4-plex with tenants inside. All the tenants are recruited by the previous seller, so I don't know their credits and don't know their personalities. Now I want to protect myself from any potential lawsuits from them.

    I'm debating between an umbrella insurance and a LLC. Here are my thoughts, and why suggestion would be greatly appreciated!!

    1. Regarding annual cost, LLC is better. To get an umbrella that covers my net worth, it would cost me $600 more every year. Whereas Ohio states does not have renewal fee for an LLC, except a one-time setup fee of $99, plus a fee to get lawyer to setup and transfer deed for me for $1000 in total.

    2. Regarding total potential loss, Umbrella is better. Per my understanding, if I have an Umbrella that covers my net worth, then even if I lose on a lawsuit, I will not lose any asset. However, losing a lawsuit may cost me the property, which is worth about $200K.

    3. Regarding daily operating, Umbrella is better. I don't need to worry about anything with Umbrella, but for LLC, I need to follow the operation agreement and keep in mind not mixing personal and business bank account.

    I'd like to know what are your thoughts, and how do you make decision in this case?

    Thank you very much!!

    I own 10+ rentals in Ohio and I put all of my rentals in one LLC. I don't personally have an umbrella policy but if you do want to be extra safe, yes, I would recommend an LLC and umbrella policy together.

    • Member since 2024 · 17 posts · 12 votes
      1y
      Quote from @Jimmy Lieu:
      Quote from @Dennis Li:

      Hi professionals and fellow investors!

      I've just purchased my first property, and I have a question for Ohio state long term rental properties. I have just closed a 4-plex with tenants inside. All the tenants are recruited by the previous seller, so I don't know their credits and don't know their personalities. Now I want to protect myself from any potential lawsuits from them.

      I'm debating between an umbrella insurance and a LLC. Here are my thoughts, and why suggestion would be greatly appreciated!!

      1. Regarding annual cost, LLC is better. To get an umbrella that covers my net worth, it would cost me $600 more every year. Whereas Ohio states does not have renewal fee for an LLC, except a one-time setup fee of $99, plus a fee to get lawyer to setup and transfer deed for me for $1000 in total.

      2. Regarding total potential loss, Umbrella is better. Per my understanding, if I have an Umbrella that covers my net worth, then even if I lose on a lawsuit, I will not lose any asset. However, losing a lawsuit may cost me the property, which is worth about $200K.

      3. Regarding daily operating, Umbrella is better. I don't need to worry about anything with Umbrella, but for LLC, I need to follow the operation agreement and keep in mind not mixing personal and business bank account.

      I'd like to know what are your thoughts, and how do you make decision in this case?

      Thank you very much!!

      I own 10+ rentals in Ohio and I put all of my rentals in one LLC. I don't personally have an umbrella policy but if you do want to be extra safe, yes, I would recommend an LLC and umbrella policy together.


       Thanks Jimmy! In your case, if you lost a lawsuit (hopefully you will never encounter that), then aren't you risking losing all your rentals at once?

  • Marc RiceBusiness Member
    Real Estate Agent · Columbus Cleveland Dayton, OH · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    1y
    Quote from @Dennis Li:

    Hi professionals and fellow investors!

    I've just purchased my first property, and I have a question for Ohio state long term rental properties. I have just closed a 4-plex with tenants inside. All the tenants are recruited by the previous seller, so I don't know their credits and don't know their personalities. Now I want to protect myself from any potential lawsuits from them.

    I'm debating between an umbrella insurance and a LLC. Here are my thoughts, and why suggestion would be greatly appreciated!!

    1. Regarding annual cost, LLC is better. To get an umbrella that covers my net worth, it would cost me $600 more every year. Whereas Ohio states does not have renewal fee for an LLC, except a one-time setup fee of $99, plus a fee to get lawyer to setup and transfer deed for me for $1000 in total.

    2. Regarding total potential loss, Umbrella is better. Per my understanding, if I have an Umbrella that covers my net worth, then even if I lose on a lawsuit, I will not lose any asset. However, losing a lawsuit may cost me the property, which is worth about $200K.

    3. Regarding daily operating, Umbrella is better. I don't need to worry about anything with Umbrella, but for LLC, I need to follow the operation agreement and keep in mind not mixing personal and business bank account.

    I'd like to know what are your thoughts, and how do you make decision in this case?

    Thank you very much!!


     I'd consult a bankruptcy attorney and a good commercial insurance agent.

    Marc Rice | Investor Friendly Agent at Reafco Tailwind Team574 Reviews
  • Clint CoonsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Attorney · Tacoma, WA · Member since 2009 · 38 posts · 55 votes
    1y

    @Dennis Li

    Dennis, your question is very common among real estate investors, and it's an important one. Insurance is crucial, and you should always ensure your property is properly insured, whether it's held in an LLC or your personal name. Having insurance provides peace of mind, but it's equally important to carefully review your policy to understand what is excluded from coverage. Here is a detailed list of common exclusions in landlord policies that can pose significant risks to property owners:

    Toxic Mold & Environmental Contamination – Most policies exclude claims related to mold, asbestos, fentanyl, viruses, bacteria, lead paint, or other environmental hazards. For example, a client was sued for mold contamination that resulted from a tenant improperly installing their own washing machine, leading to water damage and mold growth. 

    Dog Bites from a Tenant’s Dog – Many landlord policies exclude liability for injuries caused by a tenant’s dog, especially if it is considered a restricted breed. In one case, a client’s Rottweiler, which was chained in the backyard, bit a neighbor who was trying to save her small dog after it attacked the Rottweiler. 

    Criminal Acts or Intentional Misconduct – Insurance does not cover claims of negligence if the alleged act was intentional, such as wrongful eviction, harassment, or assault. For instance, one client is currently dealing with a claim where a plumber sent to repair a toilet was accused by the tenant of sexual harassment. 

    Fair Housing & Discrimination Lawsuits – Claims involving discrimination, wrongful eviction, or violations of the Fair Housing Act often require separate coverage. Without this additional protection, landlords could face significant legal costs and damages in the event of a lawsuit.

    Tenant Injuries Due to Poor Maintenance – If a tenant is injured because of known maintenance issues, such as broken stairs or faulty wiring, and negligence is proven, insurance may not cover the claim. One client is currently being sued for failing to remediate standing water in a crawlspace. The client was aware of the issue and attempted to fix it but did not fully resolve the problem, which resulted in an environmental hazard and tenant complaints.

    Bed Bug & Pest Infestation Lawsuits – Most landlord insurance policies exclude coverage for pest infestation lawsuits, such as bed bugs, roaches, or rodents. For example, a client faced a lawsuit after attempting to remediate a bed bug infestation, but the tenant refused to allow the exterminator into the apartment.  

    Contractor or Worker Injuries – If you hire an unlicensed worker, such as a handyman or plumber, and they get injured on your property, you may be liable unless you have workers’ compensation or a separate policy in place. One client hired a contractor whose license had lapsed. During a roofing job, the contractor’s brother-in-law fell off the roof and tragically died.  

    Personal Injury & Defamation Claims – Standard landlord policies usually do not cover claims for libel, slander, or invasion of privacy. For example, if a tenant sues for illegal surveillance or damage to their reputation, you may be left entirely exposed to financial liability.

    Many of these exclusions carry the potential for significant damages. I often view using an LLC as a preventative measure. While the likelihood of being sued may feel small, the consequences of a lawsuit can be severe. In my 17 years of real estate investing, I have not been sued once, despite experiencing major property damage—such as two homes burning to the ground due to faulty wiring and a tree collapsing onto a master bedroom while a tenant was sleeping. Thankfully, no one was injured, but had I not been so fortunate, I would have faced serious financial risk without the protection of an LLC.

    Based on my experience working with many clients who have been involved in lawsuits, I can confidently say that LLCs work. They offer a layer of protection that can shield you from personal liability. Another critical point to consider is that even if a claim is covered under your insurance policy, having an asset protection plan in place can discourage attorneys from seeking the sun, moon and stars as damages. 

    Lastly, take a close look at your umbrella policy and ensure it does not rely on your landlord policy for coverage. In some cases, if the underlying policy does not cover the claim, the umbrella coverage may not apply either. 

  • Attorney · Member since 2020 · 10 posts · 4 votes
    1y

    congratulations on your first rental property! Your question is an important one, and it’s great that you’re thinking about asset protection from the start. Both umbrella insurance and an LLC serve different roles, but one does not replace the other. The best strategy is to use both, but with a clear understanding of their limitations.

    Why Insurance Alone Is Not Enough

    Insurance is essential, but it has major gaps that many landlords don’t realize. Policies often include exclusions that leave landlords personally liable, even when they think they’re covered. Some of the biggest landlord insurance exclusions include:

    🚫 Toxic mold & environmental contamination – Mold, asbestos, lead paint, and other hazards often aren’t covered.

    🚫 Dog bites & tenant liability – If a tenant’s dog injures someone, you may be responsible.

    🚫 Criminal acts & wrongful eviction – Insurance doesn’t cover wrongful eviction, harassment, or claims of discrimination.

    🚫 Tenant injuries from maintenance issues – If a tenant gets hurt due to known property defects, you could be sued personally.

    🚫 Worker injuries on your property – Hiring an unlicensed handyman or contractor could lead to a major liability lawsuit if they get injured.

    📌 Key Issue with Umbrella Insurance:

    Even if you have an umbrella policy, it only covers what your underlying policy covers. If your standard landlord insurance denies a claim, the umbrella won’t step in—leaving you exposed.

    Why an LLC Offers another layer of Protection

    An LLC separates your rental property from your personal assets, making it harder for a lawsuit to reach your personal bank accounts, home, or other investments.

    ✔ If a tenant sues your LLC, only the property inside the LLC is at risk—not your personal wealth.

    ✔ LLCs create legal separation, making it more difficult for a plaintiff’s attorney to come after you personally.

    ✔ Even if a claim is covered by insurance, having an LLC discourages excessive legal claims because attorneys know they won’t get access to your personal wealth.

    📌 Key Consideration:

    ✔ Ohio has no annual LLC fees, making it one of the most cost-effective states to use LLCs.

    ✔ If structured properly, an LLC provides better liability protection than an umbrella policy alone.

    ✔ You must keep personal and LLC finances separate—mixing funds can “pierce the corporate veil” and undo your protection.

    Best Approach for Maximum Protection

    1️⃣ Form an LLC for your rental property – This shields your personal assets from tenant lawsuits.

    2️⃣ Get proper insurance – Maintain landlord insurance with additional liability coverage.

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