Kitchen and Bathroom Logistics in Rent by Room?

[Adam Wayne]

Hello everyone,

I've been paying off debt and saving money for the past few months, looking to save for a house. I was planning to rent a couple of rooms to help with the mortgage, when someone introduced me to the house hacking community. Since then I've been reading a lot of threads here on the forums and and listening to the podcasts. One thing that I see frequently is people talking about renting three, four, or even five bedrooms in a house! The thing that never gets mentioned is the kitchen and the bathrooms. 

I was hoping to hear some of your thoughts on the matter. I was originally planning on trying to find a 3BR house and rent out two of the rooms, but that will not cover much of the mortgage in my extremely expensive market in the Pacific Northwest. The idea of living with 3, or even 4 other roommates sounds incredibly unappealing, but I'm willing to make sacrifices to get ahead. The only issue is that it seems like the kitchen situation would be a nightmare. I've lived in larger houses when I was in my early 20's and there was never any fridge or cabinet space, issues with dirty dishes, etc. etc. I know that the dishes can be alleviated with good management practices, but that just seems like a lot of random people to be served by one kitchen, and likewise with the bathrooms and shower situation.

I'm grateful for any insight or advice that you all have to offer! Thanks!

[Alex Turner]

Hey Adam, 

Totally feel your pain with purchasing in an expensive market. I recently closed on my first house hack and I went for a 4 bedroom house. I Honestly believe that you shouldn't sacrifice your own personal well being if you are planning to live with 3-4 random tenants. 

Two recommendations that I would say, 

1. check into houses that would work as a non-conforming duplex and operate a portion of the house as an Airbnb. Typically you will see higher monthly income from STR and this would help reduce your mortgage while maintaining your own independent living space. You don't necessarily need a full kitchen for guest staying for a few days at a time.

2. If you are thinking that you for sure want to rent the rooms to other tenants I would make sure that while you're searching for a home you look for a home that has a kitchen that has enough space to cater to everyone. I personally purchased another refrigerator any put it in my garage for extra food storage. 

At the end of the day, it is important to start looking at homes and getting a feel for what your money can afford you and what housing options will work well for house hacking. Good luck and reach out if you have any follow up questions. 

[Richard F.]

Aloha,

Kitchens, baths, and other "common areas" need to be addressed in a set of "House Rules". You also need enough individual "personal products" storage areas in kitchen and baths...just identifiable shelves, drawers, or cabinets that you can label A,B,C,D, with each room (also labeled A,B,C,D) responsible for their specific storage spaces. The refer is a little trickier due to different sizes of specific containers, but you should either have mini fridges in each bedroom, or possibly a second regular size in the kitchen so everyone is able to have reasonable amount of groceries. There should be a specific day of the week/month that refer is cleaned out of "forgotten" items.

Your Rules should include cleaning up before leaving the kitchen (washing dishes, utensils, pots, and cleaning prep and table areas used) as well as rinsing tub surround and hanging towels to dry in their own rooms. You likely need to limit hours of usage and perhaps have specified quiet hours so everyone can sleep. Laundry facility usage needs to be covered, as does parking, outside storage, and any shared usage of electronics.

[Adam Wayne]

Thank you for the advice on the common area rules, specifically the kitchen. How about the use of the dishwasher? I was thinking something along the lines of plates, bowls, and silverware are allowed to be used in the dishwasher, but pots, pans, and any one-off items must be hand-washed to ensure that they are available for the next user.

Also bathrooms seem really difficult when you have more than 2 people using a bathroom, both for the time it takes with toilet use and bathing, as well as storage of toiletries. I suppose I'll figure it out as I go.

[Adam Wayne]

Quote from @Alex Turner:

Hey Adam, 

Totally feel your pain with purchasing in an expensive market. I recently closed on my first house hack and I went for a 4 bedroom house. I Honestly believe that you shouldn't sacrifice your own personal well being if you are planning to live with 3-4 random tenants. 

Two recommendations that I would say, 

1. check into houses that would work as a non-conforming duplex and operate a portion of the house as an Airbnb. Typically you will see higher monthly income from STR and this would help reduce your mortgage while maintaining your own independent living space. You don't necessarily need a full kitchen for guest staying for a few days at a time.

2. If you are thinking that you for sure want to rent the rooms to other tenants I would make sure that while you're searching for a home you look for a home that has a kitchen that has enough space to cater to everyone. I personally purchased another refrigerator any put it in my garage for extra food storage. 

At the end of the day, it is important to start looking at homes and getting a feel for what your money can afford you and what housing options will work well for house hacking. Good luck and reach out if you have any follow up questions. 

Thanks, that's good advice! May I ask why you mentioned not sacrificing personal well-being when you personally decided to house house the 4 bedroom unit? It's not my ideal situation to live with roommates (especially at the ripe age of 35) but I see it as the only way I can get into the Seattle-area market. What you mentioned about the separate portion of the house or non-conforming duplex would be my ideal situation, but the market around here is AGGRESSIVE and most everything that has potential like this for rental income is snapped up quickly. 

As for roommates... I've lived with them my entire adult life, spent a lot of time traveling and staying in hostels and all that. I've lived the last 5 years on my own and I've gotten so comfortable in my cozy 1 bedroom apartment that I'm honestly kind of scared at the idea of having roommates again, haha. Nonetheless, I can sacrifice in the short-term to benefit in the long. 

I've also been reading/listening to a lot of material saying that you should jump in the market as soon as you can, but I also realize that every market is unique. I'm afraid that if I jump in now, prices may come down in the future if that recession ever happens. I admit that I focus on the doom and gloom too much when it comes to the market, but my father lost everything in 2007/2008. On the other hand this might be the last best time to buy... Too bad none of us have a crystal ball ;)

As for now, I'm picking up extra shifts at my second job and saving as much money as I can while I keep an eye out for any opportunites. Thanks again for the reply!

[Marcela Hoag]

Renting by room is a great strategy as long as you know what you're getting into. To manage common spaces, I suggest a) house rules b) hiring cleaners who comes by once per month so no one feels like they're being told what to do. Also helps to provide some communal things like soap, toilet paper, paper towels, etc.

The more effort you put into screening tenants, the better. Each house is going to have its own "feel" and you don't want people coming in who will rock the boat. For example, what are you going to do about people who like to party? Or smoke? Or people who work at night and need the area quiet during the day? There's lots of extra things to be aware of which you wouldn't normally need to deal with. But the extra cash can make it worth it.

[Alex Turner]

Quote from @Adam Wayne:

Quote from @Alex Turner:

Hey Adam, 

Totally feel your pain with purchasing in an expensive market. I recently closed on my first house hack and I went for a 4 bedroom house. I Honestly believe that you shouldn't sacrifice your own personal well being if you are planning to live with 3-4 random tenants. 

Two recommendations that I would say, 

1. check into houses that would work as a non-conforming duplex and operate a portion of the house as an Airbnb. Typically you will see higher monthly income from STR and this would help reduce your mortgage while maintaining your own independent living space. You don't necessarily need a full kitchen for guest staying for a few days at a time.

2. If you are thinking that you for sure want to rent the rooms to other tenants I would make sure that while you're searching for a home you look for a home that has a kitchen that has enough space to cater to everyone. I personally purchased another refrigerator any put it in my garage for extra food storage. 

At the end of the day, it is important to start looking at homes and getting a feel for what your money can afford you and what housing options will work well for house hacking. Good luck and reach out if you have any follow up questions. 

Thanks, that's good advice! May I ask why you mentioned not sacrificing personal well-being when you personally decided to house house the 4 bedroom unit? It's not my ideal situation to live with roommates (especially at the ripe age of 35) but I see it as the only way I can get into the Seattle-area market. What you mentioned about the separate portion of the house or non-conforming duplex would be my ideal situation, but the market around here is AGGRESSIVE and most everything that has potential like this for rental income is snapped up quickly. 

As for roommates... I've lived with them my entire adult life, spent a lot of time traveling and staying in hostels and all that. I've lived the last 5 years on my own and I've gotten so comfortable in my cozy 1 bedroom apartment that I'm honestly kind of scared at the idea of having roommates again, haha. Nonetheless, I can sacrifice in the short-term to benefit in the long. 

I've also been reading/listening to a lot of material saying that you should jump in the market as soon as you can, but I also realize that every market is unique. I'm afraid that if I jump in now, prices may come down in the future if that recession ever happens. I admit that I focus on the doom and gloom too much when it comes to the market, but my father lost everything in 2007/2008. On the other hand this might be the last best time to buy... Too bad none of us have a crystal ball ;)

As for now, I'm picking up extra shifts at my second job and saving as much money as I can while I keep an eye out for any opportunites. Thanks again for the reply!

 Yeah, I realize that may have been a bit confusing. I have a 4 bedroom house, but I rented out only the basement portion of the house while still maintaining my own area on the main floor. I could rent out another room upstairs but for me acquiring the home and receiving some rents was enough. I still feel I am not sacrificing everything just to make the house hack work. Does that make sense? 

You're well on your way! Good luck. 

[Tanner Pile]

@Adam Wayne

House hacking with rent by the room will definitely have its problems with dishes and cleanliness from roommates. Dishes will be in the sink for a while and you will need to remind roommates about it. Bathrooms will never get cleaned unless you do it. Assigning chores to each person is the only way to have others help out. It is possible to get someone that will actually clean but I find that rare with most guys in their 20s. I've gotten into the habit of aways cleaning when I have a spare few minutes while cooking dinner or in the common spaces. I NEVER do someone's dishes though. That is the beginning of things to slowly slip up with roommates and them wanting more from you. First it's dishes then it's a delay on rent. (This has never happened to me but I feel that is the best way to think about it) Also, certain cities have rules about how many people to a refrigerator is allowed. Colorado is four so on the 5th bedroom you will need to have another fridge. Most HHs I know like this will buy a mini- fridge for themselves or offer it to the larger room for increased rent. 

I do not like having roommates but it was a price to pay to get into real estate investing  and have a lower cost of living. You could always look for multi-family options with studio or 1 BR units that you can live in and rent out the other units. I plan to go this route now that I have gotten a few properties going. 

[Ryan Thomson]

@Adam Wayne you are asking the right questions and there are good answers to all of them so keep asking. 

I like the part where you said "I'm willing to make sacrifices to get ahead". That is what it takes in house hacking. If you are willing to be more uncomfortable you will be more profitable.

Kitchen - I house hacked with 4 people in two different houses. We had designated fridge and freezer shelves. Along with one common shelf. It forces people to stay organized.

Chores - we had a cleaning schedule where we would rotate each week what had to be done. Bathrooms, kitchen, sweep/mop, off week. If you didn't do your chores you got a strike and had to do them and buy everyone beer. If you didn't do it twice in a row you had to do everyone's chores the next week. 

Bathrooms - we had 1.5-2 bathrooms. That is certainly ideal for 4+ people in a house. 

[Ryan Thomson]

Also @Adam Wayne @Michael Haas from "House Hack Seattle" would be a great resource for you. 

[Michael Haas]

Thanks for recommending us @Ryan Thomson, & glad you're looking into HouseHacking @Adam Wayne! It really is the best way to get started in a High Cost Of Living area like Seattle.

A lot of this depends on your loan pre-approval amount and the affordability of each of the neighboorhoods you're looking at, but as Seattle and surrounding areas are very friendly towards DADU's & ADU's it may be possible to get a home with multiple living spaces - so rather than a 6 bedroom house, you get a 3 bed 2 bath house with a 2 bed 1 bath ADU, with the potential to build another 2 bed 2 bath detached ADU in the future. Lots to get into I know, but here's a couple general tips for you as you get started Househacking:
1. If you find a property with a second kitchen (ADU or MIL), be aware that 80% or more of those units have been built without permits. Not a deal breaker necessarily, but a risk to be aware of and mitigate.
2. Brush up on building code requirements: in basements you're looking for egress windows that are 5.7 sq feet or more openable (3ft by 3ft casement style windows work best), and ceiling heights 6ft 8 inches or greater (as little as 6 ft 4 inches is ok under ductwork and beams though)
2. Check the unrelated persons count in any city you're interested in. Seattle allows 8 unrelated persons in a rental house, unincorporated Snohomish County allows 6, but some cities allow as few as 3-4. House hacking financials get significantly stronger as you increase the bed count above 4, or add a ADU or separate dwelling unit. *This is more important if you're "renting by the room" with roommates than if you're "Renting by the unit" in a multifamily or a single family with your own private kitchen and entrance. 
3. I've had success with cashflow rentals around Seattle by getting off the beaten path- there are established investors bidding up the price (and therefore compressing the cap rate) on many small multi-families, but those same investors are not going after large 5-9 bedrooms SFHs that you can househack by the room or split up with an ADU / MIL. Establishing a short term rental / airbnb in part of the home is another great way to maximize rental income.
4. There are first time homebuyer assistance programs like WSHFC that you can get into a house for pretty much just the closing costs- could be just $6k - $25k up front cash to close on a $500k house. If that house has a unfinished basement you can finish and rent out, or even just extra rent-able bedrooms, your mortgage payment will likely be significantly less than you currently pay for rent, + you reap all the tax benefits and forced savings effects of home-ownership.
If you have good credit, good W-2 income, and just a little bit of savings buying a house hack is a financial no-brainer. We started with this strategy in 2013 and nearly ten years later we have 13 properties in King County / Seattle and $15,000 / month of passive income profit - if you stick with it the results compound quickly!

Cheers and good luck! And seriously, message me anytime if you'd like to talk more about house-hacking, it's definitely changed my family's financial life and the lives of almost 100 of our clients for the better!

[Dave Skow]

@Adam Wayne- thanks for the post .....agreed on your points  ..... each  house / kitchen  will be  different  so  you will need to  evaluate  each  opportunity as you have them ....many times an  extra  fridge and  pantry type  storage  can be  located/ stored in  a  basement /  ancillary  location  ....More importnatly - be aware that if you need a loan to buy a place  -  you are not allowed to  count / use any of the  potential  rental income for qualifying purposes  ....your  income will need to  be  large  enought to  qualify for the  full mortgage payment 

[Sherief Elbassuoni]

Quote from @Adam Wayne:

Hello everyone,

I've been paying off debt and saving money for the past few months, looking to save for a house. I was planning to rent a couple of rooms to help with the mortgage, when someone introduced me to the house hacking community. Since then I've been reading a lot of threads here on the forums and and listening to the podcasts. One thing that I see frequently is people talking about renting three, four, or even five bedrooms in a house! The thing that never gets mentioned is the kitchen and the bathrooms. 

I was hoping to hear some of your thoughts on the matter. I was originally planning on trying to find a 3BR house and rent out two of the rooms, but that will not cover much of the mortgage in my extremely expensive market in the Pacific Northwest. The idea of living with 3, or even 4 other roommates sounds incredibly unappealing, but I'm willing to make sacrifices to get ahead. The only issue is that it seems like the kitchen situation would be a nightmare. I've lived in larger houses when I was in my early 20's and there was never any fridge or cabinet space, issues with dirty dishes, etc. etc. I know that the dishes can be alleviated with good management practices, but that just seems like a lot of random people to be served by one kitchen, and likewise with the bathrooms and shower situation.

I'm grateful for any insight or advice that you all have to offer! Thanks!

 @Adam Wayne, to make numbers make sense in rent by the room, house typically needs to be 5 plus rooms. This comes with some challenges.

What works a little better is split level houses where you can put one kitchan upstairs, and a second kitchen downstairs. This will also give you more exit strategies, either rent each floor to a family, or keep renting by the room, but divide the load on two kitchens instead of everyone using the same kitchen

[Nicole Masters]

Hey Adam! I may be the one going against the crowd, but here it goes! 

My husband and I live in an expensive market (Sacramento California) and we have a 6 bedroom/3 bathroom house where we live in the primary bedroom and rent out all of the rest of our bedrooms meaning we have SIX roommates. Now, what we do is on the extreme end of things, but it works great for us! We have the primary bedroom, which has an ensuite bathroom. So the other two bathrooms are split between the other 6 roommates. (it's about one too many people for one of the bathrooms honestly, I would say 2-3 people/bathroom should be your max).

As far as the kitchen goes, make sure whatever house you pick has some type of pantry/cupboard space where you can give everyone their own labeled shelf. This is where our roommates keep their food, special spices, etc. It's a space they can put whatever they want and know other people won't touch it. Everything else outside of these labeled shelves is communal. We share plates, silverware, cups, spices, pots & pans, etc. Same thing with the fridge. Give everyone at least one shelf that's just theirs so they feel confident knowing they'll always have a spot for some of their stuff.

If you have any questions I'm happy to share details! Feel free to send me a DM or text me at my number below :)

[Dennis Nguyen]

@Adam Wayne My first property I house-hacked and is a strategy I'm still using today. The kitchen scenario does sound scary, but if will be avoided with expectations and house rules up front. It's very hard to cash flow positively while living there since the Seattle market is more expensive, but to me if you can significantly shave off your living expenses compared to renting then that's a win ! Feel free to DM me if you have any questions , I'm also in the Seattle area :)