Probate Leads

[Sharon Vornholt]

In my city, our probate leads are published in the newspaper at the same time each month. I am finding that even in some big cities, folks are still having to trek down to the courthouse.

I was wondering, where all of you "probate investors" get your leads?

[Tony Gatto]

Thank you Sharon and Rick!

[Mikhail Sazonov]

Hi

@Sharon Vornholt ,

@Account Closed ,

I am in WV, we have the same system where probates are published in a newspaper. There two lists that presented by fiduciary commissioner, one include the name of a Descendant and a Fiduciary (final settlements) and second (new opened probates) includes also the address of fiduciary. So like you said we can trace if descendant had a property by checking the online tax website.

One of the best ways find out how you state handles probate is to read the state code, which is available online and can be print out. Sound complicated at first, but actually it is well organised concise and uses down to earth language.

My chapter was called - "Administration of Estate and Trust" If any publications have to made in any state it will be well described.

From my experience I wouldn't recommend calling the court house, because most of the clerk are not knowledgeable about such detail and they simple will tell you No when the answer is actually Yes. Based on my experience!

Sharon, how do organize your probate campaign? Do you use MS word mail merge and write custom letters yourself? Would you recommend using yellow letter from popular providers? If yes how to change following letters of campaign to ctreate follow up reference? Should the postcards be used?

Thanks

[Sharon Vornholt]

@Mikhail Sazonov - I personally only use white letters; never yellow letters for probaes. I have everyone in an Act database so I just merge up those letters. I don't use postcards either. I believe that you should only send a professional letter to these folks. They have lost a loved one and you need to treat these folks with a little more care.

You can just change your letter to make a sequence of letters to go out to them.

Sharon

[Mikhail Sazonov]

Originally posted by @Rick H.:

The job of your letter is to be a substitute for you knocking at their door at the right time with the right message. So, frequency of mailing should be of high importance to you as a direct mailer.

Hello Rick, always great to read your advice on things!

How would you suggest to go about starting the campaign to Probates? Do you use the MS Word to mail merge your letters, print them out and then have somebody staff the envelopes and hand write the addresses? Do you use yellow letters in your campaigns, and if yes, do you order them or produce them yourself? Would the postcards be acceptable in the intermediate mailings?

To my understanding if you can create your own letters and pay somebody 10-15 cents to staff them and hand write envelope, you can keep the cost of a letter at about 60 - 70 cents instead of $1.3, plus have complete control over your mailings.

Also another big question. What if Administrator cannot sell the property until the final settlement. Do you use an option agreement then? I was reading my state law, and seems like if there is a will (testate situation) the executor can sell RE for almost any reason including paying for funeral expenses, creditors depts and others; but when there is no will (intestate situation) final settlement is required before RE deed can be legally transferred.

Sorry for being too overwhelming! Just have too many questions in my head!

Seems like the more I learn the more Q I have!

thanks,

[Rick H.]

Mikhail - I've experimented with all sorts of probate direct response mail of my own as well as watch what others do.

I like to use window envelopes when I'm offering professional services. We mail merge the letters on white business letterheads, put them through our Yale paper folding machine with a Z fold so the address shows through the window like an invoice.

I've also experimented with direct printing on the carrier (envelope). Hand-written envelopes increases the response rate however not the quality of prospects, IMO. With the availability of so many handwriting-like printer fonts, it's tempting to experiment with creating a fake handwritten piece, however I vote for quality prospects not time wasters.

Also, I am currently the administrator of three different probate estates (that I can remember) and collect what few letters I receive in that role. I'm not sure if the low volume of letters received is due to lack of activity (doubtful), my limited powers on one file or because people recognize my name and are scared off. Hard to believe the latter as CA has a population of over 38 million people.

The reason I bring up my role as PR is because I've actually received a handful of great letters from my own trainees, who's staff apparently never made the connection. My personal favorite is a series of typewritten addresses on #10 envelopes, folded but not sealed with first class postage.

As for tying up a deal, there are many methods available. I've used and profited handsomely from options, however there are other tools that I've used, too. The question you have to ask is if you wish to affect property title (hardball) or just contractual (softball) and craft your bulletproofing methods around what is acceptable practice in your state.

My last point might be the most important: too many people try to be the first letter in the mail. That's fine, however some of my best deals have come from estates that have been open for a really long time. No one's happy when an estate is open a year, two years, or more; not the PR, the heirs, the attorney or the courts.

[Mikhail Sazonov]

Originally posted by @Sharon Vornholt:

Once you have the address of the deceased, you can look on the tax assessor's site to see if that address comes up. If there is no property listed, I will look it up by name. It takes a bit of detective work at times. Many times if the deceased is listed as living in a nursing home, there will still be property in that person's name.

[Mikhail Sazonov]

Originally posted by @Rick H.:

Rick, could you elaborate on that topic. What other tools are available accept Option agreement. Could it be purchase contract with extended closing date ( 90 days). That is all I can think of!

@Sharon how do you tie up the property before PR can sell it?

Thanks all

[Sharon Vornholt]

Yu-

Did you check by address? That is how I usually get them to come up.

There is the possibility that the property has been sold, but that address would still come up.

Can you get the executor's name and address?

If so, I would probably send them a letter anyway to see if you can get some information. Sometimes it takes some detective work.

Sharon

[Mikhail Sazonov]

@Sharon Vornholt in our Tax Search Website there is no option to search by address, only person name and APN / Parcel Number.

But I will probably stick to court house for now and then find somebody to do it for me.

How about absentee owner list. What provider would you recommend? I do have difficalty finding list providers for my area! Since I am "in the sticks" ))

[Sharon Vornholt]

Mikhail - Just use one of the national list providers like Listsource.com. Send me an email when you get a chance.

Sharon

[Rick H.]

Mikhail - I gave you as much of the answer as I'm willing to offer without telling you specifically how to do it. Decide if your bulletproofing ought to affect the subject property title or if a contractual arrangement is sufficient by your standards. YOU determine the documentation and either draft them yourself (since not off-the-shelf) or pay an attorney or other expert to draft to your specifications.

Do your own homework and research methods to accomplish your objective.

[Mikhail Sazonov]

Thanks,

@Rick H.

I will figure it out / consult the atturney once it come to a spicific deal!

[Mikhail Sazonov]

Originally posted by @Sharon Vornholt:

Mikhail - Just use one of the national list providers like Listsource.com. Send me an email when you get a chance.

Sharon

Thanks for the advice Sharon, I did email you on your blog email. Let me know if received it.

[Sharon Vornholt]

Mikhail - I didn't (yet).

Sharon

[Mikhail Sazonov]

Thanks

[Mikhail Sazonov]

Hello,

Rick H.

wanted to get your opinion on probate leads with a surviving spouse. I know that most opinions are gravitating towards not mailing to those leads, since there is no need for selling the property in that case. From my court house visit about two thirds of all probates with properties involved surviving spouse that get the property by right of survivorship.

So would you guys recommend mailing those folks, and should the massage differ from a regular probates?

Thanks

[Rick H.]

To be candid, I really don't know the answer.

If you're trying to buy, you're now soliciting to buy from a presumably single owner. Some may reside in a different property but I bet most live in the subject property.

Now, what's the catalyst for them selling? If they're going to sell, most probably won't do so right away. My Mom lived in her home more than 30 years after my Dad died. Seemed like She knew every real estate agent in that part of Yorba Linda but no one got the listing nor did anyone buy direct.

So, I think experienced probate marketers purge surviving spouse petitions from their lists. Save yourself some money. Maybe these same people will appear on a different list that would make sense to mail. You'd craft your copywriting toward those demographics and psychographics.

Perhaps you'll aggregate data from multiple lists and find triggers to target. You'll no doubt find that some of those sellers acquired title by the loss of a spouse but they're in no rush to sell until something else makes that possibility attractive.

[Sharon Vornholt]

@Mikhail Sazonov

I don't mail to them. Like Rick said most of the people continue to live there.

Sharon

[Darmi Parikh]

Hello Mr. Brima:

I am just starting up in Real estate Investing. Can you provide me the site for absenti owner and tax lien site where I can get information in Illinois

Thanks

D

[Dev Horn]

Anyone new to this should start with Listsource.com, if only to research your market area; however it is not a source for "tax liens" which are obtained via your county/assessor or a third-party service that collects that info.  Tax liens often indicate that bigger financial issues exist, and that can often translate to "no equity" properties.  So, that's a prospect group worth considering but not an overflowing well of great deals...

[C Teague]

Hi, can anyone share how probate listings can be obtained in Dallas, TX? They do not publish this information and require specific case numbers to lookup online or physically at the county.

[Dave Metsker]

@Mikhail Sazonov 

Team up with a reverse mortgage broker, and share probate leads for surviving spouses.  These spouses will eventually die or move out of the property, at which time the broker can refer the lead back to you.  I am a reverse mortgage lender in my state, so I offer that service, as well as inheritance advance payments, and the purchase of the decedent's property.

[Account Closed]

Originally posted by @C Teague:

Hi, can anyone share how probate listings can be obtained in Dallas, TX? They do not publish this information and require specific case numbers to lookup online or physically at the county.

The Dallas County Civil Court has everything you need online to get started.  Look up the probate cases by date range.  Your courts are superior to mine in the case info they publish online

[C Teague]

@K. Marie Poe - THANK YOU! I will take a look. Thank you for sharing knowledge.

[C Teague]

Only problem is it requires either a case number or reference number.